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It's because of the speed, it's explicitly because of the speed of living beings, it's just outright stated.
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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
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which makes sense because its a reference to a popular science fiction trope of teleporting humans the people coming out as grilled meat on the other wise lol
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It is stated in the fourth Databook, while in the quiz book it sounds more in relation to the transfer charge, the method itself. What I meant was it could be not just the speed, but also other factors, as we have Haku, who is not more durable than the Base Raikage, but can move at that speed.
In fact, if we consider that this is a limiter, that is, no one less durable than the Base Raikage can move at this speed, That would also be a support for him, wouldn't it? because he resists transfer in base form, which means that his body supports the speed, and we have the statement that equates him to Minato in Yoroi lvl 1, and the Lariat statement, everything corroborates the fact that we have the base Raikage Rel/Rel+, SoL with Yoroi lvl 1, and FTL with Yoroi lvl 2+Shunshin. The cases of Haku and the character from the novel Retsuden can be treated as exceptions, as they are also having a boost by a jutsu but which has a different method.
Either way, I don't see it interfering with the scale, after all, the base Raikage doesn't have impressive feats of durability anyway, and the peak of his power is emphasized when he use the armor.
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????
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It's stated that it's possible for Haku to move at the speed of light, not that they always do.
I don't believe Mabui's jutsu supports or discredits lightspeed Ay metas. I wouldn't call it support, but yes we do know Ay's body is capable of moving at light speeds without harm.
I don't think anyone is saying base Ay caps the verse per se. Anyone who's base Ay durability level or higher is unaffected by this.
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It could be interpreted in a lot of ways, like:
how do you guys interpret this statement? Specifically the "Claw Grimes that wield the Ten Tails' power"
They have the strength of a Juubi. (Pretty possible given the vast difference in strength between TBV and Shippuden characters)
They possess the abilities of the Shinju. (Traveling between claw marks, although this one's pretty doubtful given the context)
They can turn into a tree and have rinnegan like the Juubi (lol)
HelloThere1089
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I think it's either the power to devour someone, or simply having a small part of juubi chakra.
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Yeah very doubtful especially considering they don't ever even show any abilities of the Juubi all they do is bite you and absorb ur chakra turning you into a tree, vaguely similar to the Juubi, but that's about it.
Naturally I dont think they're individually as strong as the Juubi itself, but rather theyre collectively as strong/relative as the Juubi, as an army. Since the quote mentions "power", which obviously refers to AP, do you think it's a fair interpretation to say that their AP should narratively be lower than the Juubi's for the statement to hold true? And if the Claw Grimes' AP happens to be higher, it'd contradict the statement?
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Not sure, honestly I think it just depends on what you think is narratively consistent, I think the only way we can directly scale a Claw Grime to a Juubi is if they defeat someone on that level, or if all of their combined chakra gets a statement like that.
HelloThere1089
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No. Look at it like a venn diagram. They have the power of ten tails, but that's not all they have. They obviously have Code's claw marks so they don't just collectively add up to only the ten tails. Realistically speaking, yeah, the wording seems to imply that ten tails power is what's special about them, so they should be weaker than one ten tails. But if ever there is a situation that contradicts this, it can easily be argued that Code's karma enhanced them, which also happened to the Shinju and was stated by Boruto. So I disagree with a cap like that.
Edit: For example war arc Naruto had the power of Kurama. But he only had half of it. Does that put a cap on KCM2 SM Naruto in a way that he can't be scaled higher than complete Kurama?
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So what about say individually? Would you say that one Grime would be weaker than the Juubi? Is there anything narratively that's stopping one Grime from being stronger than the Juubi? Or do you think bc of Code's chakra, for all we know one Grime could be stronger than the Juubi?
HelloThere1089
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As things stand currently, yes. They are being cut through like butter and the best feat they have got is catching base Kawaki off guard. Someone who is known to not train anything other than his Karma.
There is no hard cap but it will become a bit hard to believe. For example the Shinju are explicitly stated to be: Host + Code's Karma + Juubi Chakra. So them being stronger than any of their "sources" is not that hard to believe. But the Grimes on the other hand are:
1. Fodder
2. Never are explicitly stated to have gained power from anything other than the Juubi (iirc)
I think a TLDR is due on my part. I believe there is no logical cap on the Grimes power (as far as I can remember that is). But currently, realistically, they should be weaker than one Juubi because any external sources than we can think of are only implications. We don't have statements that say the Grimes were enhanced AP wise by Code's Karma like we have for the Shinju. We only induce that because the Grimes can travel though claw marks.
So the only way I can see Grimes > Juubi is if we get better feats that contradict the notion that Juubi > Grimes. But there is no cap from the given statements. I don't know if I was able to explain my thoughts well.
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Also I did some re-reading and before the timeskip, Ada states that Code is creating [over] 1000 Grimes, all split off from the Juubi, which Shikamaru reiterates for us.
In TBV, Boruto states that Code had enhanced the Grimes with his chakra which makes them different and more dangerous than Code currently understands. (We also see characters like Sarada, Chocho, Shikadai and Kawaki easily deal with them without any problems. So obviously the Grimes aren't a problem, physically per se. They have the advantages in number and their hax is pretty broken if you get tagged by it.) We didn't understand what Boruto meant until the next chapter, where we see the Shinju themselves. It's those guys who have the mix of Code's chakra and the Juubi. Originally we thought the Shinju was that mixture, but thanks to the context of the Shinju, we know that's not the case. It's very likely they're just bite sized, weaker versions of the Juubi with Code's claw marks on their bodies restricting them so he can control them. We know that the Grimes aren't anything special because even Code is in disbelief with Boruto's comment moments before the Shinju spawn, saying "how can they be such a threat? Their only abilities are devouring." Implying he didn't amp them very much (if at all, especially since you have Inoshikachou dealing with them, and base Kawaki).
So I say all that to say that the Grimes are very likely just split off pieces that are weaker than Juubi, that have Code's Shinjutsu and I think their feats support this notion too (currently we scale them higher than the Juubi, but if what im saying tracks, a downgrade may be in order). Obviously the Shinjus are a different case.
Edit: also never typing this much on mobile again holy shit. I had to rewrite this like 3 times)
In TBV, Boruto states that Code had enhanced the Grimes with his chakra which makes them different and more dangerous than Code currently understands. (We also see characters like Sarada, Chocho, Shikadai and Kawaki easily deal with them without any problems. So obviously the Grimes aren't a problem, physically per se. They have the advantages in number and their hax is pretty broken if you get tagged by it.) We didn't understand what Boruto meant until the next chapter, where we see the Shinju themselves. It's those guys who have the mix of Code's chakra and the Juubi. Originally we thought the Shinju was that mixture, but thanks to the context of the Shinju, we know that's not the case. It's very likely they're just bite sized, weaker versions of the Juubi with Code's claw marks on their bodies restricting them so he can control them. We know that the Grimes aren't anything special because even Code is in disbelief with Boruto's comment moments before the Shinju spawn, saying "how can they be such a threat? Their only abilities are devouring." Implying he didn't amp them very much (if at all, especially since you have Inoshikachou dealing with them, and base Kawaki).
So I say all that to say that the Grimes are very likely just split off pieces that are weaker than Juubi, that have Code's Shinjutsu and I think their feats support this notion too (currently we scale them higher than the Juubi, but if what im saying tracks, a downgrade may be in order). Obviously the Shinjus are a different case.
Edit: also never typing this much on mobile again holy shit. I had to rewrite this like 3 times)
HelloThere1089
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Yum
What was the reasoning for scaling them higher than the Juubi? Also by Juubi, do you mean the one from 4GNW.
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boruto anime scaling + multipliers
yee but now that I'm thinking bout it, they're two different juubis aren't they
HelloThere1089
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Yeah. All this time I was yapping about the Juubi from Kara. I should have mentioned that I guess.
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that's totally my bad lol
that does change things tho, cause unless we have any reason for the War Juubi and the Kara Juubi to scale to one another, then the Kara Juubi is currently featless and would logically just upscale from the Grimes right? So then there'd be no cap, as you were saying huh
HelloThere1089
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im gonna axe the anime
Np
Yeah. It all depends on how they perform for sure. Although you could infer abductively that Kara Jubi < 4GNW Jubi from the "Juvenile" statement, but that only works if the Grime's feats are below that of 4GNW Jubi.
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HelloThere1089
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Apollonir.Scale
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Why I hate Juubi
Apollonir.Scale
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MinatoSparkle
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1. I'm relatively fine with it being a speed cap for Sannin level and below (since that's Base A3/4's best dura assertion)
2. It could be that travelling a long distance at that speed makes it harder. Like how you could withstand freezing cold for a few seconds, but the longer you're exposed to it, the more the effects will worsen
MinatoSparkle
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About lightning cloak in general
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A site called https://booklive.jp/
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Obito Uchiha vs gin ichimaru
Gin Obito Rules Speed equalized Gin has prior knowledge of Obito Base Gin used. Jūbi Jinchūriki obito used Battle takes place in King’s row from overwatch They start 20ft apart and out of sight
MinatoSparkle
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What about English?
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A little site called amazon.
MinatoSparkle
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I bought 5 volumes of Bakegyamon off Amazon yesterday. You can find shit on there, even though they're evil and drink infant blood.
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No different than Ten-Tails Fission beings tbh.
how do you guys interpret this statement? Specifically the "Claw Grimes that wield the Ten Tails' power"
MinatoSparkle
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Hm
違う･･･あんなものはただの付け焼き刃さその力だけは己から体に修めた･･･龍地洞でね
The raws make it sound even more like the Curse Mark is simply inferior to Sage Mode
違う･･･あんなものはただの付け焼き刃さその力だけは己から体に修めた･･･龍地洞でね
The raws make it sound even more like the Curse Mark is simply inferior to Sage Mode
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I swear to god… after the shit y’all gave me when I argued for this because it was literally stated, i’m gonna freaking scream.Hm
違う･･･あんなものはただの付け焼き刃さその力だけは己から体に修めた･･･龍地洞でね
The raws make it sound even more like the Curse Mark is simply inferior to Sage Mode
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A while ago we had a revision about Issen, and the argument that made them refuse the scale for the samurai was that the image used as an example in the Databook statement was just Mifune using this, and he was he has Kurama's cloak, so they just accepted for Mifune with Kurama's cloak, they didn't even consider this for the base form. So I used the same logic here, since the Databook that compares Ay with Minato uses the image of Ay with Yoroi 1 chasing Naruto.About lightning cloak in general
MinatoSparkle
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When did I ever disagree with the statement? I've always agreed with Sage Mode>Curse MarkI swear to god… after the shit y’all gave me when I argued for this because it was literally stated, i’m gonna freaking scream.
1. That's not me
2. Mifune is kinda different since this is literally the only time he's ever used the jutsu, and the caption is referencing a literal event. Meanwhile, the event of the Ay caption (overtaking Naruto) and the statement comparing him to Minato are separate clauses. Plus, KM0 is a very temporary thing for Mifune, while the lightning cloak is just a single technique. Talking about a fairly arbitrary level of it (since V1 and V2 are fan terms, it's all just LCM) seems a bit strange.
It's also not consistent for V1 Ay to scale to even Jonin Minato, since he scales to KCM Naruto, who even while splitting his chakra between many clones, kept up with Bee who matched Suppressed V2 Ay, who'd naturally be above V1 Ay. In other words, V2 Ay~(No Shunshin) Jonin Minato/KCM Naruto>Fatigued KCM Naruto~Bee~Suppressed V2 Ay>V1 Ay
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If War Arc Orochimaru was fighting BSM Naruto (War Arc) “could” he successfully escape the fight?
MinatoSparkle
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Orochimaru when the Kurama Avatar jumps above him charging a Bijuudama:
