Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[SlendVeny]

Damn only if it was in the manga instead of being filler only.

Wasn't it in a novel, too?

 

[Godernet]

Damn only if it was in the manga instead of being filler only.

was also in the novel, also the anime is canon

 

[KingogKings777]

was also in the novel

What novel?

also the anime is canon

Doubt.

 

[Godernet]

What novel?

the naruto next generation novelizations, theres like 5 of em.

Doubt.

That's what we got accepted idk what to tell ya

 

[KingogKings777]

the naruto next generation novelizations, theres like 5 of em.

Yeah are they translated though?

That's what we got accepted idk what to tell ya

And I doubt we'll see anything from the anime in the manga part 2, with people still claiming its canon.

 

[Godernet]

Yeah are they translated though?

not officially

And I doubt we'll see anything from the anime in the manga part 2, with people still claiming its canon.

you do know the manga has already referenced the anime before right?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

sure it still would but thats not whats being portrayed,

I disagree. You guys are really ignoring the vast majority of context surrounding all of these characters that put them at this level in favor of pushing an outlier showing.

a Shinobi by definition are the military force of a village.

the warring states period with Hashirama/Madara was an era of mercenaries and clan feuds, not that it changes my point if they were

either way they've been doing nothing but killing each other and nothing else productive for generations.

Semantics aside, their understanding and usage of chakra was not different or more rudimentary than it is currently. So the initial point you were making isn’t really valid.

No one knew Hagaromo or the Juubi existed before Obito explained it to them.

That doesn’t mean anything though in regards to the topic.

No one knew chakra was a linking power via Ninshuu since it was drowned out by the immediately usable and combat applicable ninjutsu.

That's irrelevant. Regular Chakra still isn’t comparable to SPC and regular Shinobi don’t have access to it. SPC and Regular Chakra still work the same at a basic level, that doesn’t change. The difference is the level of strength that type of chakra has and the benefits a wielder of that chakra receives.

The Rinnegan was a myth

What is the point of this again?

the ability to cut through mountains and summon meteors was considered godlike and impossible back then.

Sure, but not unobtainable by ordinary Ninja as proven by Madara and Hashirama and it wasn’t exclusively achieved by having Godlike Energy that ordinary Ninja don’t have access to…

Literally in the entire existence of Chakra usage on the planet, even the STRONGEST to be born pale in comparison to SPC amped individuals. It’s not reasonable to assume to ordinary individuals can match or exceed that with “just” training.

One of the strongest Jonin in history needed a TENS OF TIMES boost in the form of a Suicide technique to reach that level. Sakura, needed 3 YEARS of stored chakra just to achieve comparability and STILL admitted inferiority.

Do you see where this is going?

the list goes on.

It really doesn’t though, fam.

I mean they did, and even if they didn't nothing says that they couldnt match the power with knowledge either.

Any feats of them doing so (And it is not consistently shown) are outliers, given the vast majority of characters that reach those levels logically and sensibly, based on what the verse has set up. And no, knowledge by itself isn’t helping them match that level of power instantly. You want to know what’s consistent? Prep and multipliers:

1. Byakugou Seal = 3 Years of Stored Chakra
2. Chakra Canon = Dozens of Jonin Pooling Chakra over majority of a day
3. 8 Gates = Tens of Times Amp

This is what human knowledge does to allow them to match a fraction of the power wielded by SPC users or Otsutsuki. Why should I buy 5 random weak mfs (In comparison) magically matching this level of power w/o asterisk's attached? What precedence is there?

Again:

• Naruto & Sasuke = Six Paths Chakra Amped + Years of Further Training
• Amadou Cyborgs = Shibai DNA
• Boruto & Kawaki = Otsutsuki Via Karma w/ access to the power of the two strongest Otsutsuki introduced (Not Counting Shibai)
• Himawari = Feats, Hype, Direct Statements (Pending Better Translations).
• Shinju Quartet = They ARE the Ten-Tails w/ Sentience.

Sarada and Kage’s are literally Outliers with nothing supporting them.

nothing you've said has supported that.

Why do I have to state a fact. SPC is an Otsutsuki Power. Humans don’t have access to it. Period. The closest they can come is Senjutsu, and even then only a select few can even achieve SM/Transformations anyways.

Dozens of Shinobi during the war arc could barely match a fireball from Madara.

This is disingenuous as you know the two are not the same. Pooling Chakra together constantly over a 24hr period =\= a select few releasing just simultaneously for a few seconds.

and the point is that something that was considered impossible and godlike back then is now very possible now.

With copious amounts of prep working in tandem with tech. That doesn’t support Kage’s magically being strong enough to fight Otsutsuki the fact that prep is required actually hurts your argument.

Like I said, they are outliers w/ no supporting evidence.

Sumire has Nue, who can obliterate the leaf and is stronger than the new era leaf Jounin like Sai. even people like Kakashi were there.

Bro… Do I really I have to explain the Nue to you? Or should I chuck it up to you not remembering the arc in detail?

comparing real-life militaries to an in-story statement. you gotta realize that it is a person writing their character dialogues with a purpose in mind

The principle is the same regardless and the fact of the matter is, while yes, Fiction doesn’t have to follow irl, nothing supports your notion otherwise outside of Copious Prep and Advance Tech working together, which doesn’t translate to individuals by themselves.

you might see a CRT on it eventually if the person who found it wants to.

definitely a controversial character to get God Tier lvl scaling, and definitely not something im posting in goon central for someone to try and make a crt on.

ofc we want sound logic, but we're not always gonna get sound logic.

Sure, but that also doesn’t mean we don’t have remedies for situations like this, this the need for conversations to happen, such as this.

being mad because a Japanese picturebook characters arent the same power you picture in your head is pointless.

You see, it’s this statement some of you like to flippantly use, as if this isn’t an indexing wiki for such things and you guys are, in the eyes of some, scaling these characters wrong. If you can’t have the conversation without defaulting to this sentiment, wtf are you doing here? And yes, it is insulting when you say it. Hopefully the obvious doesn’t have to be stated beyond this…

especially when it's not the same author

Kishimoto may not have been actively writing it, but this talking pount is played out and just false. He has been involved since day one and as per ikemoto and WSJ Editor and Chief, Kishimoto has defined and worked extensively on every concept and plot point in the series, having even made direct decisions about how the manga would start.

“Why” are we still saying this?

he was kinda pushed into making a sequel for money's sake when he wanted to make a different manga

False. He said no. Only said yes to a sequel when his assistant wanted to do a remake, and ONLY of Ilemoto drew. All Mangaka of popular ip get pressured. The decision was his and he was firm, barring specific things being met. Nor does this mean he half-assed this. You actually insult the author when you do this.

But do you even care that that is your actions?

we have so many statements and feats with narrative backing telling us "Hey we want these people to be able to shine a little bit."

Kage’s have 1 instance (And As I pointed out before, their feats are not noteworthy in the slightest), no statements, iirc. Sarada has 1 instance, no statements. You keep saying that, yet we don’t see it… and please don’t use Urashiki. He is the most inconsistent character in the franchise. Let’s not even talk about his death.

believe me, none of us are crazy about it, at all. But most of us are beyond the time of coping about a series that changes its scaling 7 years ago.

You can call it whatever you want. A single instance of something that goes against established precedence with no supporting, or contradictory evidence, is an outlier. Plain and simple.

Seems to me the problem isn’t so much with the manga as it’s with the people making decisions on what they perceive to be “consistent”, logic be damned.

 

[karo_senpaii]

The fact you’d just nonchalantly accept a Potential 50K bump w/o any evidence is distressing. And you’re using that vagueness to to try and justify the absurb jump that these characters are accepted to have.

You can’t tell me you seriously buy the jump from Sub-Biju level Jonin to threatening God Tiers with no explanation… I don’t believe you’d do that w/o having been convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt.

So help me get to where you are because again:

1. Naruto & Sasuke were massively amped by an Otsutsuki’s SPC, elevating their bases to this Otsutsuki Level.
2. Amadou’s Cyborgs have Shibai DNA, which explains their Otsutsuki level Strength.
3. Boruto & Kawaki have been empowered by two of the strongest Otsutsuki we’ve seen via Karma and are now Otsutsuki themselves.
4. The Shinju Quartet are Juubi Incarnations (Basically TT Jins for all intents and purposes)
5. Himawari is has been built up to be crazy strong and has been stated to have Greater Chakra than even Naruto (Clarification still needed from better translations).

When we see these things time and time again, JUSTIFYING characters being at these levels, WHAT is it that makes it acceptable to include Kage’s or Sarada among this list? It literally is nonsensical and deserving of scrutiny.

Where am I missing something that makes Kages or Sarada non outliers based on logic within the verse?

Yeah no sarada is different. You being born from someone with six path chakra means you would benefit from it. Especially in the ocular sense. I mean indra is a pretty good example.

The kage are just an example of "for the sake of plot" and the only one that actually scales well is gaara.

I think gaara just actively grew in power. I mean bro grew so much urashiki could substitute his chakra as bijuu chakra he previously had.
The rest are for plot and if you look at it not with powerscalling lens but how shonen normally go then they'd be fine.

 

[karo_senpaii]

I disagree. You guys are really ignoring the vast majority of context surrounding all of these characters that put them at this level in favor of pushing an outlier showing.

Semantics aside, their understanding and usage of chakra was not different or more rudimentary than it is currently. So the initial point you were making isn’t really valid.

That doesn’t mean anything though in regards to the topic.

That's irrelevant. Regular Chakra still isn’t comparable to SPC and regular Shinobi don’t have access to it. SPC and Regular Chakra still work the same at a basic level, that doesn’t change. The difference is the level of strength that type of chakra has and the benefits a wielder of that chakra receives.

What is the point of this again?

Sure, but not unobtainable by ordinary Ninja as proven by Madara and Hashirama and it wasn’t exclusively achieved by having Godlike Energy that ordinary Ninja don’t have access to…

Literally in the entire existence of Chakra usage on the planet, even the STRONGEST to be born pale in comparison to SPC amped individuals. It’s not reasonable to assume to ordinary individuals can match or exceed that with “just” training.

One of the strongest Jonin in history needed a TENS OF TIMES boost in the form of a Suicide technique to reach that level. Sakura, needed 3 YEARS of stored chakra just to achieve comparability and STILL admitted inferiority.

Do you see where this is going?

It really doesn’t though, fam.

Any feats of them doing so (And it is not consistently shown) are outliers, given the vast majority of characters that reach those levels logically and sensibly, based on what the verse has set up. And no, knowledge by itself isn’t helping them match that level of power instantly. You want to know what’s consistent? Prep and multipliers:

1. Byakugou Seal = 3 Years of Stored Chakra
2. Chakra Canon = Dozens of Jonin Pooling Chakra over majority of a day
3. 8 Gates = Tens of Times Amp

This is what human knowledge does to allow them to match a fraction of the power wielded by SPC users or Otsutsuki. Why should I buy 5 random weak mfs (In comparison) magically matching this level of power w/o asterisk's attached? What precedence is there?

Again:

• Naruto & Sasuke = Six Paths Chakra Amped + Years of Further Training
• Amadou Cyborgs = Shibai DNA
• Boruto & Kawaki = Otsutsuki Via Karma w/ access to the power of the two strongest Otsutsuki introduced (Not Counting Shibai)
• Himawari = Feats, Hype, Direct Statements (Pending Better Translations).
• Shinju Quartet = They ARE the Ten-Tails w/ Sentience.

Sarada and Kage’s are literally Outliers with nothing supporting them.

Why do I have to state a fact. SPC is an Otsutsuki Power. Humans don’t have access to it. Period. The closest they can come is Senjutsu, and even then only a select few can even achieve SM/Transformations anyways.

This is disingenuous as you know the two are not the same. Pooling Chakra together constantly over a 24hr period =\= a select few releasing just simultaneously for a few seconds.

With copious amounts of prep working in tandem with tech. That doesn’t support Kage’s magically being strong enough to fight Otsutsuki the fact that prep is required actually hurts your argument.

Like I said, they are outliers w/ no supporting evidence.

Bro… Do I really I have to explain the Nue to you? Or should I chuck it up to you not remembering the arc in detail?

The principle is the same regardless and the fact of the matter is, while yes, Fiction doesn’t have to follow irl, nothing supports your notion otherwise outside of Copious Prep and Advance Tech working together, which doesn’t translate to individuals by themselves.

Sure, but that also doesn’t mean we don’t have remedies for situations like this, this the need for conversations to happen, such as this.

You see, it’s this statement some of you like to flippantly use, as if this isn’t an indexing wiki for such things and you guys are, in the eyes of some, scaling these characters wrong. If you can’t have the conversation without defaulting to this sentiment, wtf are you doing here? And yes, it is insulting when you say it. Hopefully the obvious doesn’t have to be stated beyond this…

Kishimoto may not have been actively writing it, but this talking pount is played out and just false. He has been involved since day one and as per ikemoto and WSJ Editor and Chief, Kishimoto has defined and worked extensively on every concept and plot point in the series, having even made direct decisions about how the manga would start.

“Why” are we still saying this?

False. He said no. Only said yes to a sequel when his assistant wanted to do a remake, and ONLY of Ilemoto drew. All Mangaka of popular ip get pressured. The decision was his and he was firm, barring specific things being met. Nor does this mean he half-assed this. You actually insult the author when you do this.

But do you even care that that is your actions?

Kage’s have 1 instance (And As I pointed out before, their feats are not noteworthy in the slightest), no statements, iirc. Sarada has 1 instance, no statements. You keep saying that, yet we don’t see it… and please don’t use Urashiki. He is the most inconsistent character in the franchise. Let’s not even talk about his death.

You can call it whatever you want. A single instance of something that goes against established precedence with no supporting, or contradictory evidence, is an outlier. Plain and simple.

Seems to me the problem isn’t so much with the manga as it’s with the people making decisions on what they perceive to be “consistent”, logic be damned.

Don't know why you're fixated on sarada. You and I know she will scale as concretely if not more than anyone as time goes on.
At any point kishimoto can pull the "sarada inherited the ocular strength of her father" just like indra. Allow the manga to breath.

Ya'll have been coping about kages for like for ever just like dragon ball people coping with kirillin..allow it rest

 

[SlendVeny]

you do know the manga has already referenced the anime before right?

Boruto going "I went to the Hidden Mist for school once" does not mean the anime is canon.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Yeah no sarada is different. You being born from someone with six path chakra means you would benefit from it. Especially in the ocular sense. I mean indra is a pretty good example.

I would love for this to be the case, truly but remember, this is not stated or implied. In fact, the series goes out of its way show us when it is via Himawari. No such thing for Sarada or Boruto for that matter. It is reasonable to assume, imo though for that exact reason, but… we’re juggling no confirmation in that equation, and the fact it’s so blatant via Hima gives me pause for Sarada.

The kage are just an example of "for the sake of plot" and the only one that actually scales well is gaara.

That should be more reason to list it as an outlier.

I think gaara just actively grew in power. I mean bro grew so much urashiki could substitute his chakra as bijuu chakra he previously had.

I personally see War Arc Gaara as Biju Level, so I can see that. I could even accept Gaara surpassing Madara after all these years, but… when you get to Juubito… Six Paths Madara… Kaguya…? It becomes absurd and then all this other stuff comes into play.

The rest are for plot and if you look at it not with powerscalling lens but how shonen normally go then they'd be fine.

Sure, but this is VsBW afterall… We do powerscaling here.

 

[Nierre]

Boruto going "I went to the Hidden Mist for school once" does not mean the anime is canon.

is this sarcasm

Edit: NVM I see ur saying the anime, rather than the arc in question

 

[karo_senpaii]

I would love for this to be the case, truly but remember, this is not stated or implied. In fact, the series goes out of its way show us when it is via Himawari. No such thing for Sarada or Boruto for that matter. It is reasonable to assume, imo though for that exact reason, but… we’re juggling no confirmation in that equation, and the fact it’s so blatant via Hima gives me pause for Sarada.

That's not how it works dude..just because someone didn't come out and say "you inherited six path power from your dad" means it can't ever happen..it can be dormant in you like asura, training can bring it out. Indra wasn't even a power house till he unlocked mangyeko. Boruto actuallt got something. Literally momoshiki first encounter was like "you've inherited otsusuki power" even though it was clearly dormant as he wss weak as hell. And they didn't go out of their way to show it with himwari. If you mean kurama yeah no the only reason it manifested is coz his main chakra got destroyed. If naruto was fine himawari would have gotten nothing. Once again allow the series to go on. You got her stabbing someone once . all this headcanons are not necessarily. Let them explain what happened in the past 3 years.

I personally see War Arc Gaara as Biju Level, so I can see that. I could even accept Gaara surpassing Madara after all these years, but… when you get to Juubito… Six Paths Madara… Kaguya…? It becomes absurd and then all this other stuff comes into play.

Sure, but this is VsBW afterall… We do powerscaling here.

If madara without spc can contend with juubito then I don't see why after 16 years it's impossible for gaara.

The bad part about this debate is all these kages would loose to every single six path character you can think of. You keep saying this coz you're focusing on "ap"

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Looks like sasuke and naruto are now “officinally” nerfed

 

[SlendVeny]

is this sarcasm

Edit: NVM I see ur saying the anime, rather than the arc in question

The arc doesn't have to be Canon either. He went to the Mist at one point, that doesn't mean he got jumped by a shark man who had started a gang of ruffians.

 

[Nierre]

The arc doesn't have to be Canon either. He went to the Mist at one point, that doesn't mean he got jumped by a shark man who had started a gang of ruffians.

That's just being contrarian. At the time of that arc in the manga, the writer Kodachi was in charge of the anime, who also wrote that arc in the anime.
When Boruto references his trip in the manga, obviously he's referring the same trip that happened in the anime. Let's not act dumb.

 

[Nierre]

Looks like sasuke and naruto are now “officinally” nerfed

how'd you like the fight?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I personally see War Arc Gaara as Biju Level, so I can see that. I could even accept Gaara surpassing Madara after all these years, but… when you get to Juubito… Six Paths Madara… Kaguya…? It becomes absurd and then all this other stuff comes into play.

War Arc Gaara is far above normal Bijuu level

The bad part about this debate is all these kages would loose to every single six path character you can think of. You keep saying this coz you're focusing on "ap"

Idk about that, with someone like Juubito especially they can kinda just blitz and one shot his head with taijutsu, 1 Eyed Juubidara too

 

[Testarossa002]

The fact you’d just nonchalantly accept a Potential 50K bump w/o any evidence is distressing. And you’re using that vagueness to to try and justify the absurb jump that these characters are accepted to have.

You brought up Naruto not having a relative or superior jump in power compared to the other Kages
Where's the issue again after the feats listed?

You can’t tell me you seriously buy the jump from Sub-Biju level Jonin to threatening God Tiers with no explanation… I don’t believe you’d do that w/o having been convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt.

So help me get to where you are because again:

1. Naruto & Sasuke were massively amped by an Otsutsuki’s SPC, elevating their bases to this Otsutsuki Level.
2. Amadou’s Cyborgs have Shibai DNA, which explains their Otsutsuki level Strength.
3. Boruto & Kawaki have been empowered by two of the strongest Otsutsuki we’ve seen via Karma and are now Otsutsuki themselves.
4. The Shinju Quartet are Juubi Incarnations (Basically TT Jins for all intents and purposes)
5. Himawari is has been built up to be crazy strong and has been stated to have Greater Chakra than even Naruto (Clarification still needed from better translations).

When we see these things time and time again, JUSTIFYING characters being at these levels, WHAT is it that makes it acceptable to include Kage’s or Sarada among this list? It literally is nonsensical and deserving of scrutiny.

People can grow as strong as they like due to plot necessity.

Where am I missing something that makes Kages or Sarada non outliers based on logic within the verse?

They don't need to have justifiable power ups in order to possess logic
They just need to have justifiable plot necessity to have logic in line with the verse's narrative
You don't see Choji or Shino hanging around Otsutsuki's (yet). Why? Because their strength isn't relevant to the plot as of now
Replace Orochimaru with Momoshiki during Konoha crush and Hiruzen will find way to scale to Momoshiki
This isn't death battle
Nor is it something exclusive to Naruto/Boruto

 

[AnimesFreak2]

.

 

[Godernet]

I disagree. You guys are really ignoring the vast majority of context surrounding all of these characters that put them at this level in favor of pushing an outlier showing.

the "context", you are talking about only matters to the original series where the shinobi involved were uninformed about the level of strength that existed out there.

That's irrelevant. Regular Chakra still isn’t comparable to SPC and regular Shinobi don’t have access to it. SPC and Regular Chakra still work the same at a basic level, that doesn’t change. The difference is the level of strength that type of chakra has and the benefits a wielder of that chakra receives.

the type of chakra it is has never been stated to matter all that much for potency. correlation isn't causation.

Guy and Sakura both have feats on that level with regular chakra

something, something but Guy had to die tho, it still shows its possible for regular chakra to reach those levels.

the power of the 8th gate was far beyond Guy's limit but that doesn't mean its impossible for future shinobi to reach those levels without a sacrifce move.

Sure, but not unobtainable by ordinary Ninja as proven by Madara and Hashirama and it wasn’t exclusively achieved by having Godlike Energy that ordinary Ninja don’t have access to…

I think you think too much of SPC

all it is is chakra from the Juubi that was inherited by descendants of Kaguya, the quality difference doesn't matter beyond abilities

if every Six Paths User was stronger than every non six paths user, how did Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto and Senjutsu Enhanced Sasuke overpower Juubito?

Literally in the entire existence of Chakra usage on the planet, even the STRONGEST to be born pale in comparison to SPC amped individuals. It’s not reasonable to assume to ordinary individuals can match or exceed that with “just” training.

That's just an argument out of incredulity.

theres no actual reason why that can't be the case.

One of the strongest Jonin in history needed a TENS OF TIMES boost in the form of a Suicide technique to reach that level. Sakura, needed 3 YEARS of stored chakra just to achieve comparability and STILL admitted inferiority.

so a 16-year-old non genius Kunoich can store chakra for 3 years to be comparable but a bunch of Kage training for 16 years can't be?

Any feats of them doing so (And it is not consistently shown) are outliers

you don't decide that brotha,

also the new era being a decade later with all the characters having evolved means that it sets the precedence for its one scaling through previously established characters.

given the vast majority of characters that reach those levels logically and sensibly, based on what the verse has set up. And no, knowledge by itself isn’t helping them match that level of power instantly.

instantly? it was 16 years.

1. Byakugou Seal = 3 Years of Stored Chakra

3 years of a tiny bit of Sakura's chakra isn't as big of a deal as you're making out.

1. Chakra Canon = Dozens of Jonin Pooling Chakra over majority of a day

yeah i checked the scene again and not only was it not over a day and more like minutes, but they were also fueling a cannon to blast surrounding debris.

1. 8 Gates = Tens of Times Amp

ok?

This is what human knowledge does to allow them to match a fraction of the power wielded by SPC users or Otsutsuki. Why should I buy 5 random weak mfs (In comparison) magically matching this level of power w/o asterisk's attached? What precedence is there?

because thats whats happening brotha.

• Naruto & Sasuke = Six Paths Chakra Amped + Years of Further Training
• Amadou Cyborgs = Shibai DNA
• Boruto & Kawaki = Otsutsuki Via Karma w/ access to the power of the two strongest Otsutsuki introduced (Not Counting Shibai)
• Himawari = Feats, Hype, Direct Statements (Pending Better Translations).
• Shinju Quartet = They ARE the Ten-Tails w/ Sentience.

cool

Sarada and Kage’s are literally Outliers with nothing supporting them.

Teen Sarada has no other scaling to call it an outlier so you're basically saying "it's an outlier cause i dont like it."

Why do I have to state a fact. SPC is an Otsutsuki Power. Humans don’t have access to it. Period. The closest they can come is Senjutsu, and even then only a select few can even achieve SM/Transformations anyways.

not being able to use specific powers doesn't mean they can reach the same level of power. again nothing the series has said made that at all the case.

This is disingenuous as you know the two are not the same. Pooling Chakra together constantly over a 24hr period =\= a select few releasing just simultaneously for a few seconds.

*a few minutes for a dual function cannon you mean.

With copious amounts of prep working in tandem with tech.

"copous amounts of prep"

Ay literally pulled it out the shed like it was his old project car and only started prepping it while Naruto was heading off to fight Toneri one last time, 15-30 minutes at best.

Like I said, they are outliers w/ no supporting evidence.

I hope you know if a feat is someone's only line of scaling it's impossible to be an outlier.

an outlier is something being inconsistent with other showings.

no so strong it goes against the lore(even though thats not the case here either.)

Bro… Do I really I have to explain the Nue to you? Or should I chuck it up to you not remembering the arc in detail?

stop being semantical, the point is there are genin and academy students with abilities that vastly surpass what the previous generation is capable of.

You see, it’s this statement some of you like to flippantly use, as if this isn’t an indexing wiki for such things and you guys are, in the eyes of some, scaling these characters wrong. If you can’t have the conversation without defaulting to this sentiment, wtf are you doing here? And yes, it is insulting when you say it. Hopefully the obvious doesn’t have to be stated beyond this…

you seem to be a misunderstanding because I'm not saying you can't have different opinions on scaling, nor am I against having the convo.

I'm talking about to the people that cry and complain with no actual argument other than "me no like."

Kage’s have 1 instance (And As I pointed out before, their feats are not noteworthy in the slightest), no statements,

1 instance across 4 different media, also Sasuke deciding to bring them at all after seeing what they can do and affirming they were the people Kaguya was prepping for is telling enough. Sasuke isn't going to involve people with no use,

not to mention their involvement as if they would be heavy contributors even with how strong Momo and Kin were, only being wrong because Momo could transform,

also not note-worthy?

Chojuro pierces Kinshiki's skin with a jutsu, which wouldn't be possible if they weren't relative as we see with Sasuke being unable to cut Fused Momo

Kuro's restraints have Kinshiki groaning in pain and struggling to free himself, and obviously, Gaara blocked an attack from Fused Momo.

none of this would be possible without some level of relativity, not to mention they all took attacks from him and were up minutes later.

also are we not gonna act like Base Naruto, before and after losing Kurama, was still a threat to these beings? his SPSM is a product of Kurama that he no longer has not to mention isn't using in base anyways.

iirc. Sarada has 1 instance, no statements.

her first and only source of scaling was damaging someone above Jigen, there is no amount of cope that's gonna salvage this being an outlier since everyone she'll fight from now on will also be stronger than they were previously.

A single instance of something that goes against established precedence with no supporting, or contradictory evidence, is an outlier. Plain and simple.

yeah, that's not what an outlier is.

its a single instance that goes against established individual character precedence or contradicts the narrative.

and last time I checked doesn't have that. nor does the Boruto series say "No normal being can surpass one with SPC, Otsutsuki power, or Shibai blood.

Seems to me the problem isn’t so much with the manga as it’s with the people making decisions on what they perceive to be “consistent”.

seems to me like copium.

 

[Testarossa002]

Imagine if we scaled Boruto characters purely off of Boruto series feats

Then we'll have Sarada scaling above Naruto/Sasuke/Momoshiki's country destruction statements and the criticism will shift to her being Juubito level without any bijuu amps

 

[Godernet]

6B Boruto God Tiers, as it should be.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yall are typing a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff I ain’t reading :usopplaugh:

 

[HelloThere1089]

Balls

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

how'd you like the fight?

It was pretty good.

 

[SlendVeny]

That's just being contrarian. At the time of that arc in the manga, the writer Kodachi was in charge of the anime, who also wrote that arc in the anime.
When Boruto references his trip in the manga, obviously he's referring the same trip that happened in the anime. Let's not act dumb.

Surely this means that Naruto canonically fought Raiga of the Seven Ninja Swordsmen, and that has to be used for scaling.

 

[Nierre]

Surely this means that Naruto canonically fought Raiga of the Seven Ninja Swordsmen, and that has to be used for scaling.

sure!

 

[Godernet]

Boruto going "I went to the Hidden Mist for school once" does not mean the anime is canon.

good thing thats not the reason it's canon

 

[Kayzz]

Since it's stated that the new kages have been making preparation to battle Otsutsuki all these years, then it's possible they've honed the potency (not scale) of their jutsus to affect god tier beings.

The problem with it is always the problem with Boruto as a whole "show us, not tell us"
Did they make special training with Naruto and Sasuke, any special drugs, new chakra source etc? They could have come up with anything to make it more believable.

 

[Antvasima]

Hello.

Can members who are knowledgeable about Naruto help out here please?

Kaydee.X

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

the "context", you are talking about only matters to the original series where the shinobi involved were uninformed about the level of strength that existed out there.

the type of chakra it is has never been stated to matter all that much for potency. correlation isn't causation.

Guy and Sakura both have feats on that level with regular chakra

something, something but Guy had to die tho, it still shows its possible for regular chakra to reach those levels.

the power of the 8th gate was far beyond Guy's limit but that doesn't mean its impossible for future shinobi to reach those levels without a sacrifce move.

I think you think too much of SPC

all it is is chakra from the Juubi that was inherited by descendants of Kaguya, the quality difference doesn't matter beyond abilities

if every Six Paths User was stronger than every non six paths user, how did Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto and Senjutsu Enhanced Sasuke overpower Juubito?

That's just an argument out of incredulity.

theres no actual reason why that can't be the case.

so a 16-year-old non genius Kunoich can store chakra for 3 years to be comparable but a bunch of Kage training for 16 years can't be?

you don't decide that brotha,

also the new era being a decade later with all the characters having evolved means that it sets the precedence for its one scaling through previously established characters.

instantly? it was 16 years.

3 years of a tiny bit of Sakura's chakra isn't as big of a deal as you're making out.

yeah i checked the scene again and not only was it not over a day and more like minutes, but they were also fueling a cannon to blast surrounding debris.

ok?

because thats whats happening brotha.

cool

Teen Sarada has no other scaling to call it an outlier so you're basically saying "it's an outlier cause i dont like it."

not being able to use specific powers doesn't mean they can reach the same level of power. again nothing the series has said made that at all the case.

*a few minutes for a dual function cannon you mean.

"copous amounts of prep"

Ay literally pulled it out the shed like it was his old project car and only started prepping it while Naruto was heading off to fight Toneri one last time, 15-30 minutes at best.

I hope you know if a feat is someone's only line of scaling it's impossible to be an outlier.

an outlier is something being inconsistent with other showings.

no so strong it goes against the lore(even though thats not the case here either.)

stop being semantical, the point is there are genin and academy students with abilities that vastly surpass what the previous generation is capable of.

you seem to be a misunderstanding because I'm not saying you can't have different opinions on scaling, nor am I against having the convo.

I'm talking about to the people that cry and complain with no actual argument other than "me no like."

1 instance across 4 different media, also Sasuke deciding to bring them at all after seeing what they can do and affirming they were the people Kaguya was prepping for is telling enough. Sasuke isn't going to involve people with no use,

not to mention their involvement as if they would be heavy contributors even with how strong Momo and Kin were, only being wrong because Momo could transform,

also not note-worthy?

Chojuro pierces Kinshiki's skin with a jutsu, which wouldn't be possible if they weren't relative as we see with Sasuke being unable to cut Fused Momo

Kuro's restraints have Kinshiki groaning in pain and struggling to free himself, and obviously, Gaara blocked an attack from Fused Momo.

none of this would be possible without some level of relativity, not to mention they all took attacks from him and were up minutes later.

also are we not gonna act like Base Naruto, before and after losing Kurama, was still a threat to these beings? his SPSM is a product of Kurama that he no longer has not to mention isn't using in base anyways.

her first and only source of scaling was damaging someone above Jigen, there is no amount of cope that's gonna salvage this being an outlier since everyone she'll fight from now on will also be stronger than they were previously.

yeah, that's not what an outlier is.

its a single instance that goes against established individual character precedence or contradicts the narrative.

and last time I checked doesn't have that. nor does the Boruto series say "No normal being can surpass one with SPC, Otsutsuki power, or Shibai blood.

seems to me like copium.

Sure, let’s act like you didn’t take literally everything out of context to make your points or straight up post misinformation, as if we didn’t watch or read the same stuff…

But hell, considering your responses, we might as well have.

Edit: And yes, I’m well aware that goes both ways for your perspective on mine.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

So when are you gonna spaz out again?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Play nice or don't play at all, please. I don't want a headache and you don't want someone saying you're the one that's wrong, so don't force us to either conclusion. Cheers.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

we could always separate shippuden and new era scaling from one another

 

[Robo432343]

boruto is not canon to naruto

 

[KaydeeX]

we could always separate shippuden and new era scaling from one another

Do we categorize the last Naruto as new era?
If yes
Say hello to High 6B Kaguya

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Ep 220, pretty good ep and end to the arc. I’m guessing Naruto can’t use spsm now or any of the other biju’s chakra now cuz kurama’s gone(and plot) I guess

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

What I don't understand is this: Why do you find it ridiculous that the Kages have reached a level where they can fight the Otsutsuki? Just because their title is "KAGE" does not mean that their power level will be at most "Kage level". There is a 16-17 year difference between Shippuden and Boruto. Why should the characters stay at the same power level? Just because a character was Bijuu level 17 years ago, that is, 6-C, Low 6-B according to this wiki, does not mean that this character cannot be Otsutsuki level in its current form, that is, 5-C if we adapt it according to this wiki. Correct me if I'm wrong, as far as I know, in this wiki, if a character proves that he is in a tier, it does not care whether it makes sense for him to be in this tier according to the logic of the series.

For example, in Bakugan, 80% of the series is 2-C due to the power feats of Drago and Naga. Let me tell you about Drago and Naga, these characters are the two strongest characters of the 1st season and no one can defeat them, but Naga's Paladins both damage Drago, who is 2-C, and withstand Drago's attack. Drago's friends also help Drago and defeat the Paladins and get 2-C from there. Normally, someone who watches Bakugan says, "How can Preyas destroy someone who can cause trouble for Drago?" I can show many series other than Bakugan as examples of this. In my eyes, Boruto Era Gokage's scaling from Momoshiki and Kinshiki is not ridiculous at all. We saw in Shippuden that Kakashi had difficulty against Kakuzu, then he became able to cause trouble against Pain, who was much stronger than Kakuzu, and then he threw a speed blitz at Edo Jinchuriki, who was probably stronger than Pain, and finally We saw him fight Kashin Koji's clone even though he didn't have a Sharingan. For example, I have never seen anyone say about a character in Dragon Ball discussions, "This character used to be 5-A, but now how did he reach 2-C power in this battle?"

As you can see, there is no point in thinking with the logic of "How did the character go from 10-B to 2-C in one day?", just because he was 10-B, but one day later he performed a 2-C Feat and became 2-C. In this wiki, we saw that Ben Tennyson, who was 10-B, became 5-A 5 years later. Saying that Ben couldn't have gotten his body to a 5-A level in 5 years, that's ridiculous, doesn't lower his rating.

 

[Godernet]

What I don't understand is this: Why do you find it ridiculous that the Kages have reached a level where they can fight the Otsutsuki? Just because their title is "KAGE" does not mean that their power level will be at most "Kage level". There is a 16-17 year difference between Shippuden and Boruto. Why should the characters stay at the same power level? Just because a character was Bijuu level 17 years ago, that is, 6-C, Low 6-B according to this wiki, does not mean that this character cannot be Otsutsuki level in its current form, that is, 5-C if we adapt it according to this wiki. Correct me if I'm wrong, as far as I know, in this wiki, if a character proves that he is in a tier, it does not care whether it makes sense for him to be in this tier according to the logic of the series.

For example, in Bakugan, 80% of the series is 2-C due to the power feats of Drago and Naga. Let me tell you about Drago and Naga, these characters are the two strongest characters of the 1st season and no one can defeat them, but Naga's Paladins both damage Drago, who is 2-C, and withstand Drago's attack. Drago's friends also help Drago and defeat the Paladins and get 2-C from there. Normally, someone who watches Bakugan says, "How can Preyas destroy someone who can cause trouble for Drago?" I can show many series other than Bakugan as examples of this. In my eyes, Boruto Era Gokage's scaling from Momoshiki and Kinshiki is not ridiculous at all. We saw in Shippuden that Kakashi had difficulty against Kakuzu, then he became able to cause trouble against Pain, who was much stronger than Kakuzu, and then he threw a speed blitz at Edo Jinchuriki, who was probably stronger than Pain, and finally We saw him fight Kashin Koji's clone even though he didn't have a Sharingan. For example, I have never seen anyone say about a character in Dragon Ball discussions, "This character used to be 5-A, but now how did he reach 2-C power in this battle?"

As you can see, there is no point in thinking with the logic of "How did the character go from 10-B to 2-C in one day?", just because he was 10-B, but one day later he performed a 2-C Feat and became 2-C. In this wiki, we saw that Ben Tennyson, who was 10-B, became 5-A 5 years later. Saying that Ben couldn't have gotten his body to a 5-A level in 5 years, that's ridiculous, doesn't lower his rating.

Bakugan is a good example cause every single person goes from City Block Level to as strong as the Godliest universe-creating power of their verse, that should be completely unattainable and No one in-verse questions it or talks about it, it just happens.

Drago evolved like 16 times past the Perfect Core and random Bakugan can still compete with him just cause the plot demands it.

Authors can do whatever they want to their own story