Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[Arc7Kuroi]

Everyone jumps to “being scared of someone must mean you’re weaker”, I don’t get that personally. Or as US69 says they put too much faith in an untested hypothesis. To each their own ig

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Then why would she be scared of him if she assumed he was dead

Guess you weren't paying attention when I said that she may have found out about his survival later on. Not to mention, revival schemes really aren't that hard to imagine for Ōtsutsuki, especially with Karma in play.
And again, you're zoning in on a single hypothetical example meant to illustrate a point, and ignoring the point itself.

The Novels have uber clear statements but since they are for some reason classified as non canon on the wiki it doesn't matter

The movie novel isn't canon because the movie isn't canon. It's really simple lol. This isn't some bias against Boruto, the same thing happened with the Battle of God and Resurrection of F movies when the DBS anime and manga came out.
Since the anime and manga are the official continuations, they retconned the movie.
It's that simple.

 

[theultimate5105]

Guess you weren't paying attention when I said that she may have found out about his survival later on. Not to mention, revival schemes really aren't that hard to imagine for Ōtsutsuki, especially with Karma in play.
And again, you're zoning in on a single hypothetical example meant to illustrate a point, and ignoring the point itself.

The movie novel isn't canon because the movie isn't canon. It's really simple lol. This isn't some bias against Boruto, the same thing happened with the Battle of God and Resurrection of F movies when the DBS anime and manga came out.
Since the anime and manga are the official continuations, they retconned the movie.
It's that simple.

She knew what he did beforehand and if she found out later on why wouldn't she deal with him
The Novel is literally in the official timeline

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Then why would she be scared of him if she assumed he was dead
The Novels have uber clear statements but since they are for some reason classified as non canon on the wiki it doesn't matter

Do u mean these statements?

These seem tremendously focused on Adult Naruto vs Juubidara and not Kaguya vs Momo. The Momo stuff they brought up wasn’t anything new that US69 and I haven’t coccslapped around.

Fused Momo scales to Naruto (at least low end), and so there's scales like
Fused Momoshiki<~Adult Naruto>DMS Kakashi>Amped Kaguya>Kaguya
Fused Momo<~Naruto>TL Naruto>Teen Naruto<~Kaguya
Fused Momo<~Naruto>TL Naruto>Toneri>Kaguya
Fused Momo<~Naruto~Sasuke>TL Sasuke>Kaguya
Fused Momo<~Naruto~Sasuke>TL Sasuke>TL Naruto>Toneri>Kaguya

Everyone jumps to “being scared of someone must mean you’re weaker”, I don’t get that personally. Or as US69 says they put too much faith in an untested hypothesis. To each their own ig

But so scared that she would need an entire planet of soldiers, and that she's willing to kill her children if it means they won't stop her in making the army?

Even if it's untested, they're confident in taking on Momoshiki with the idea that he's stronger than Kaguya in mind, AKA they don't think Kaguya level+ is too much for them.

 

[theultimate5105]

Do u mean these statements?

There is 1 more IIRC

 

[MinatoSparkle]

There is 1 more IIRC

Hm...I'm unaware of any others at the top of my head unfortunately.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

No offense guys, but the Toneri > Kaguya thing is extremely weak.

 

[PrinceofPein]

No offense guys, but the Toneri > Kaguya thing is extremely weak.

just scale Kaguya to her ETSO and all these stops

But yeah the entire thing is just wrong
Kaguya > hagoromo and hamura and obviously hamura > Toneri

Also let’s not forget the Kaguya that fought naruto and sasgay was not full powered

 

[Gokukid2005]

Everyone jumps to “being scared of someone must mean you’re weaker”, I don’t get that personally. Or as US69 says they put too much faith in an untested hypothesis. To each their own ig

I personally don't use it just cause of that.
The anime makes it clear that she's scared of them because they are stronger, nothing else.
Sasuke's hunch begins during the Blank Period then he makes a whole hypothesis and goes to pursue more evidence some years after Sarada is born.
He finally get's some evidence in the form of the scroll Kaguya wrote herself which warns of a pair that threaten her listing their names as Momo and Kin with Sasuke verbatim saying his suspicions/hypothesis was correct.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

just scale Kaguya to her ETSO and all these stops

But yeah the entire thing is just wrong
Kaguya > hagoromo and hamura and obviously hamura > Toneri

Also let’s not forget the Kaguya that fought naruto and sasgay was not full powered

Well, yeah, it was contradicted in the Boruto volume 1 summary. I don't think I need to explain why that would take precedence over a single hype text from a magazine promo lol.
But yeah, you're correct about the lore only pointing to Toneri being more on Hamura's level in the movie.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

No offense guys, but the Toneri > Kaguya thing is extremely weak.

It's quite literally a direct statement.

just scale Kaguya to her ETSO and all these stops

But yeah the entire thing is just wrong
Kaguya > hagoromo and hamura and obviously hamura > Toneri

Also let’s not forget the Kaguya that fought naruto and sasgay was not full powered

What proves Hamura>Toneri? Even if it's true, Prime Hamura and the Hamura that fought Kaguya aren't necessarily the same.

Was it stated she wasn't at full power?

Anyways, even when she was amped exponentially, she still got blitzed by DMS Kakashi, who's weaker than Adult Naruto if the statement about Naruto and Sasuke being the strongest shinobi is referring to of all time.
https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/011d3cf97d5923133ee5cada75fdf376/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-71---p179-%5BaKraa%5D.pnghttps://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/011d3cf97d5923133ee5cada75fdf376/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-71---p180-%5BaKraa%5D.png

Well, yeah, it was contradicted in the Boruto volume 1 summary. I don't think I need to explain why that would take precedence over a single hype text from a magazine promo lol.
But yeah, you're correct about the lore only pointing to Toneri being more on Hamura's level in the movie.

She can be a greater threat because she was stronger in proportion to the characters at the time. Kaguya gave Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, Sakura, and Obito together an incredibly tough fight, while Naruto alone handled Toneri. It's like in that one DBZ OVA where two henchman stronger than Frieza showed up at Earth after the events of the Buu Saga, and they were literally a joke that the characters left up to the kids, and Frieza was definitely a greater threat than them to the characters he fought despite his lower power.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Why are you assuming “of all time” when that’s not specified whether it’s “of all time” or “in their era” or “with respect to themselves”

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Why are you assuming “of all time” when that’s not specified whether it’s “of all time” or “in their era” or “with respect to themselves”

I'm saying it's a possibility to be of all time, that's all. Like how when Hashirama was referred to as the strongest shinobi, it likely meant of all time even though that's not specified.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Vague possibilities aren’t concrete sparkle

 

[Reio35]

I love how people don't understand how a hypothesis works. A hypothesis is just conjecture, it needs to be tested and later confirmed or denied in a conclusion based on the findings of said tests. The later phase was never applied to Sasuke's hypothesis, so it remains just that.......unconfirmed conjecture.
The only one of Sasuke's assumptions that was ever confirmed is that Momoshiki and Kinshiki were coming for the Chakra Fruit, that's really about it.

No to mention his hypotheses is founded on faulty reasoning of her making a zetsu army. Like a zetsu army would be affected

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Vague possibilities aren’t concrete sparkle

Better than the zero possibilities for Kaguya>Momoshiki

 

[Shadyboi0]

Boruto Scaling is just dumb.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Boruto Scaling is just dumb.

It's weird, but it's not as bad as some people make it out to be.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

They were enemies that not even Kaguya could face without an army

ahh yes, the fodder enemies that are killed consistently by no-name characters are sure to turn the tide of battle.

In any case, Momoshiki and Prime Kaguya have never at any point meant.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

ahh yes, the fodder enemies that are killed consistently by no-name characters are sure to turn the tide of battle.

In any case, Momoshiki and Prime Kaguya have never at any point meant.

With the chakra of the entire planet under her control, that could make a big difference. It was after all able to exponentially boost her AP and speed. https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/011d3cf97d5923133ee5cada75fdf376/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-71---p175-%5BaKraa%5D.pnghttps://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/011d3cf97d5923133ee5cada75fdf376/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-71---p179-%5BaKraa%5D.png
But she knows Momoshiki's strength.

 

[theultimate5105]

ahh yes, the fodder enemies that are killed consistently by no-name characters are sure to turn the tide of battle.

In any case, Momoshiki and Prime Kaguya have never at any point meant.

Zetsu can combine to become more powerful
Maybe if billions combine they can stand up to God Tiers (I mean it sounds stupid but it could actually be legit)

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Y’all still running with the “being scared means you’re weaker” huh

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Zetsu can combine to become more powerful
Maybe if billions combine they can stand up to God Tiers (I mean it sounds stupid but it could actually be legit)

Or

With the chakra of the entire planet under her control, that could make a big difference. It was after all able to exponentially boost her AP and speed. https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/011d3cf97d5923133ee5cada75fdf376/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-71---p175-%5BaKraa%5D.pnghttps://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/011d3cf97d5923133ee5cada75fdf376/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-71---p179-%5BaKraa%5D.png
But she knows Momoshiki's strength.

Y’all still running with the “being scared means you’re weaker” huh

This doesn't mention anything about fear.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

 

[SuperStar]

Things would be a lot easier if we just used manga and anime

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Nothing would change

 

[CloudStrife00T]

I noticed something. So I'll just leave this hypothesis here -

Kinshiki said that every planet with a space curvature above 10 must be reported to the Clan.

Naruto's Planet was 16.

We saw that Momoshiki ate a God Tree Fruit, but didn't transform like Kaguya.

Kaguya ate fruit and transformed.

I believe that different fruits from different planets with different curvatures have different potency.

Kaguya knew once the Otsutsuki Clan realizes that this planet has a curvature higher than 10 and 16 to be accurate they won't stop coming.

Momoshiki was surprised by how much chakra Naruto held when we saw Nine-Tails Chakra is nothing in front of the Ten-Tails.

Kaguya herself knew how many tricks does the Otsutsuki have, like Momoshiki eating Kinshiki (Who's fruit might hold the same power as the fruit above Space Curvature 10, which allowed Momoshiki to transform.)

She just didn't know how strong they are or how strong they could be.

There were a lot of unknowns which could have caused her to fear them, and hence an army that kept them busy so she could figure out their strength and protect herself.

............................

I might add one more thing that confuses me but is something I want to point out.

Kaguya lost the opportunity to eat her guardian (Isshiki) so she lost her chance to gain strength even further or she wouldn't have been concerned with the likes of Momoshiki and Kinshiki.

Now the part that confuses me and I am genuinely curious about.

Was Isshiki the guardian? Because I believe he and Kinishiki looked more trained, vetted.

And Momoshiki and Kaguya seemed more like spoiled rich children from a powerful clan. But if he was her guardian then she could have just asked him to give her, her power, right? Or are certain conditions to be met to turn your guardian into a fruit? Like fighting against an enemy that might result in your death?

Or was it just that Isshiki wanted to report that the space curvature of the planet is more than 10 (16) and it was a big thing for the clan?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Dear god, someone with reasonable thought, bless your beautiful soul

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I noticed something. So I'll just leave this hypothesis here -

Kinshiki said that every planet with a space curvature above 10 must be reported to the Clan.

Naruto's Planet was 16.

We saw that Momoshiki ate a God Tree Fruit, but didn't transform like Kaguya.

Kaguya ate fruit and transformed.

I believe that different fruits from different planets with different curvatures have different potency.

Kaguya knew once the Otsutsuki Clan realizes that this planet has a curvature higher than 10 and 16 to be accurate they won't stop coming.

Momoshiki was surprised by how much chakra Naruto held when we saw Nine-Tails Chakra is nothing in front of the Ten-Tails.

Kaguya herself knew how many tricks does the Otsutsuki have, like Momoshiki eating Kinshiki (Who's fruit might hold the same power as the fruit above Space Curvature 10, which allowed Momoshiki to transform.)

She just didn't know how strong they are or how strong they could be.

There were a lot of unknowns which could have caused her to fear them, and hence an army that kept them busy so she could figure out their strength and protect herself.

............................

I might add one more thing that confuses me but is something I want to point out.

Kaguya lost the opportunity to eat her guardian (Isshiki) so she lost her chance to gain strength even further or she wouldn't have been concerned with the likes of Momoshiki and Kinshiki.

Now the part that confuses me and I am genuinely curious about.

Was Isshiki the guardian? Because I believe he and Kinishiki looked more trained, vetted.

And Momoshiki and Kaguya seemed more like spoiled rich children from a powerful clan. But if he was her guardian then she could have just asked him to give her, her power, right? Or are certain conditions to be met to turn your guardian into a fruit? Like fighting against an enemy that might result in your death?

Or was it just that Isshiki wanted to report that the space curvature of the planet is more than 10 (16) and it was a big thing for the clan?

That's a very interesting way of looking at it. I like the way you think.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

.

Anyways, even when she was amped exponentially, she still got blitzed by DMS Kakashi, who's weaker than Adult Naruto if the statement about Naruto and Sasuke being the strongest shinobi is referring to of all time.

Are you telling me that Kakashi falling out of his Susanoo and free falling towards Kaguya while Kaguya herself is flying towards Kakashi is a feat for Kakashi?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

It's quite literally a direct statement.

Well, yeah, it was contradicted in the Boruto volume 1 summary. I don't think I need to explain why that would take precedence over a single hype text from a magazine promo lol.

What proves Hamura>Toneri?

Hamura being able to fight Kaguya alongside Hagoromo even before awakening his own Tenseigan.

Whereas Blind Toneri has none of those things going for him before awakening his own Tenseigan.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I noticed something. So I'll just leave this hypothesis here -

Kinshiki said that every planet with a space curvature above 10 must be reported to the Clan.

Naruto's Planet was 16.

We saw that Momoshiki ate a God Tree Fruit, but didn't transform like Kaguya.

Kaguya ate fruit and transformed.

I believe that different fruits from different planets with different curvatures have different potency.

Kaguya knew once the Otsutsuki Clan realizes that this planet has a curvature higher than 10 and 16 to be accurate they won't stop coming.

Momoshiki was surprised by how much chakra Naruto held when we saw Nine-Tails Chakra is nothing in front of the Ten-Tails.

Kaguya herself knew how many tricks does the Otsutsuki have, like Momoshiki eating Kinshiki (Who's fruit might hold the same power as the fruit above Space Curvature 10, which allowed Momoshiki to transform.)

She just didn't know how strong they are or how strong they could be.

There were a lot of unknowns which could have caused her to fear them, and hence an army that kept them busy so she could figure out their strength and protect herself.

If it was just an assumption and she meant to use them as Zetsus to test them out, it wouldn't have been stated that she "couldn't" oppose them without an army.

I might add one more thing that confuses me but is something I want to point out.

Kaguya lost the opportunity to eat her guardian (Isshiki) so she lost her chance to gain strength even further or she wouldn't have been concerned with the likes of Momoshiki and Kinshiki.

Now the part that confuses me and I am genuinely curious about.

Was Isshiki the guardian? Because I believe he and Kinishiki looked more trained, vetted.

And Momoshiki and Kaguya seemed more like spoiled rich children from a powerful clan. But if he was her guardian then she could have just asked him to give her, her power, right? Or are certain conditions to be met to turn your guardian into a fruit? Like fighting against an enemy that might result in your death?

Or was it just that Isshiki wanted to report that the space curvature of the planet is more than 10 (16) and it was a big thing for the clan?

Probably the latter.

Dear god, someone with reasonable thought, bless your beautiful soul

Are you telling me that Kakashi falling out of his Susanoo and free falling towards Kaguya while Kaguya herself is flying towards Kakashi is a feat for Kakashi?

Who said Kaguya was flying towards Kakashi? She bent her back to shoot her AKAB at him.

https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/011d3cf97d5923133ee5cada75fdf376/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-71---p178-%5BaKraa%5D.png
Those speed lines don't indicate Kaguya's movements, they indicate the AKAB.

And you can see Kakashi is using his foot to propel his movements here.

https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/011d3cf97d5923133ee5cada75fdf376/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-71---p179-%5BaKraa%5D.png
Obviously if Kakashi was falling at the speed of gravity Kaguya would've gotten out of the way with negative difficulty. To someone like Kaguya, that's pretty much the equivalent of standing still.

And Kakashi being at this level is consistent with him teleporting away an AKAB before it could even move a couple decimeters.

https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/011d3cf97d5923133ee5cada75fdf376/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-71---p182-%5BaKraa%5D.pnghttps://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/011d3cf97d5923133ee5cada75fdf376/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-71---p183-%5BaKraa%5D.png

Hamura being able to fight Kaguya alongside Hagoromo even before awakening his own Tenseigan.

Whereas Blind Toneri has none of those things going for him before awakening his own Tenseigan.

Blind Toneri kinda negged Base Naruto iirc, who's Six Paths level.

Didn't Toneri get an extra buff from having the power of all the residents of the moon or something? I recall a blob of eyes. And does Hamura even have Tenseigan Chakra Mode?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Blind Toneri kinda negged Base Naruto iirc, who's Six Paths level.

When did Blind Toneri neg Naruto?

And are you that Base Naruto during The Last is in the same ball park as his SPSM

Didn't Toneri get an extra buff from having the power of all the residents of the moon or something? I recall a blob of eyes.

At the end after he was defeated and when Hanabi's eyes were taken from him, which were just a bunch of Byakugan

 

[MinatoSparkle]

When did Blind Toneri neg Naruto?

I can't find it, but I remember Toneri easily dancing around Naruto.

And are you that Base Naruto during The Last is in the same ball park as his SPSM

Very well could be, considering in Boruto his base is low end relative to Fused Momoshiki who's way stronger than Teen SPSM Naruto.

At the end after he was defeated and when Hanabi's eyes were taken from him, which were just a bunch of Byakugan

Regardless, my other question stands. Did Hamura have TCM? If not, then the comparison is kinda obsolete.

Also...do u like agree with the DMS Kakashi stuff or just don't care to talk about it more?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

I can't find it, but I remember Toneri easily dancing around Naruto.

So not really neg Naruto then

Very well could be, considering in Boruto his base is low end relative to Fused Momoshiki who's way stronger than Teen SPSM Naruto.

This is The Last Base Naruto not Boruto Base Naruto, where there's a 13ish year gap.

Regardless, my other question stands. Did Hamura have TCM? If not, then the comparison is kinda obsolete.

It's unknown if he did, Toneri only mentioned he wanted to obtain his power

Also...do u like agree with the DMS Kakashi stuff or just don't care to talk about it more?

It was discussed before and the conclusion was that DMS Kakashi is only in the same ballpark as Kaguya, and the other in Combat Speed and Reaction Speed

 

[Shadyboi0]

The real question is base nardo's tier. Is it Tier 5? Or will it be Unknown forever? Find out next time on Dragon Ball Z!

 

[mal]

Shin vs Sasuke and Naruto was an extremely stupid battle. Just like the same way Naruto got stabbed by the same Kusanagi his weaker tailed beast forms could tank. I personally dont take aything that happened in the Gaiden manga serious at all.

its not stupid. that just show how much naruto held back again her.that why boruto can tanked her punch.

 

[Dwayne494]

so yall accept delta hurting naruto as a feat but no shin idk that seems odd

 

[mal]

Bold of you to assume I don't think Shin is tier 5.

why? didnt borushiki got 5c ap bcuz he can harmed weakened sasuke using VR by targeting his vital while shin did that to normal sasuke. caught weakened sasuke off guard while shin blade move so fast sasuke need to use his body as a shield instead of take sarada away like he did against kinshiki. got 5c dura bcuz tanked sasuke's kick? shin clone tanked chidori n sasuke kick uninjured. shin literally did everything borushiki did but against stronger vers sasuke (bcuz that sasuke didnt run out of chakra n didnt fought someone like isshiki before)

 

[mal]

so yall accept delta hurting naruto as a feat but no shin idk that seems odd

i know right. . i didnt even believe delta as strong as naruto bcuz code said boro can finish delta's work (kill naruto who clap delta).and it was from believeable source bcuz hes inner kara who stronger than her.