HelloThere1089
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Does SPSM use nature energy? I forgor.
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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
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It uses Six Paths chakra, which is similar to Senjutsu chakra used by Sage Mode in many ways, but it's different in that it's internally acquired, rather than absorbed externally from the surrounding nature.
HelloThere1089
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Then it should be able to be stacked with SM since source of energy for the two are different. Just because it has sage mode in its name doesn't mean there can only be one SM at a time. Unless this was stated somewhere.
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I mean, yeah, this already happened. That's what Naruto did with the Asura Avatar. Why he never did that kinda thing again is a combination of PIS and probably the writer (whoever that may be at this point) forgetting a lot of what Naruto and Sasuke can do, or just not caring.
HelloThere1089
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I have had this question for a long time: Do we have any text confirmation that adult Naruto uses SPSM, or is it all implications and visual representations?
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yeah before naruto uses baryon mode he references six paths Sage mode
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Definitely the latter. It comes down to him not having his classic Sage Mode orange pigmentation around his eyes, and the anime showing us this. Some people also use the fact that he can still perform Lava Style RS as support, but I think that's weak sauce since that's more so reliant on him having the Bijuu's chakra inside him and being their hub, which means he can just borrow their chakra whenever. It has nothing to do with SPSM, inherently.
But as far as official confirmation that the form is SPSM, like a statement or something? No, we don't have that. Every reference of the form just calls it "Kurama Mode", "Kurama Link Mode", "chakra mode", or something along these lines. Unfortunately, this is pretty worthless on its own, because it neither confirms nor denies his usage of SPSM, since he uses Kurama Mode on top of it anyway.
So in the end we're stuck having to make do with the visual representation, which confuses people because the design changed so much from what Naruto had in Part II.
Overall, this mess was created during the production for the Last and Boruto movies. They kinda created this mess and confusion, and when the anime and manga rolled around, they lazily reused the movie stuff without changing any of it, despite the obvious issues that creates down the line. It's not just Naruto's forms, but also a lot of story stuff too that needed to be changed because while it worked for the standalone movie, it just didn't mesh well with what the manga/anime would later go on and do.
HelloThere1089
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Yeah, but that unfortunately falls under implication rather than a blatant statement like "you know that confusing yellow & black mode I've been running around in? That's SPSM KCM." At least we know Naruto hasn't forgotten that he had a mode called SPSM. I've been in so many exhausting debates that claim Nard is weaker because he has "lost SPSM". Even though it usually is a strawman.
Also these shapes on his upper chest
This is true. Toneri should've gotten an arc in Boruto. The whole "the last movie" could've been so much fleshed out. Also they completely ditched Tenseigan after that and now byakugan is back to being the punching bag of the franchise.
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HelloThere1089
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Yeah, mb.
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But hey, we'll always have Teen Naruto to use in matches, since all of his best stuff is in character for him, and he was just really great at creatively using his kit. He'll actually be rather nice once we're done revising him.
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Whether or not Naruto has SPSM doesn't matter for the argument he got stronger. If you're getting trapped by "hE dOeSnT hAvE sPsM" then I'd reckon youre barking up the wrong tree.
Teen Naruto < Kaguya < Fused Momo < Adult Naruto -> Teen Naruto < Adult Naruto
HelloThere1089
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Yup, that's the argument I use. But some fans will not budge from the "he lost SPSM" point, even though that ends up being a strawman since I never even use that justification. It is what it is.
MinatoSparkle
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Bloodlusted be like:
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True, true, but Teen Naruto will always have the TSOs over his Adult self, which is massive in vs matches.
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MinatoSparkle
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HelloThere1089
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The problem was that the people he was facing once he got the TSOs were immune to their effects, so they just did **** all for him. I guess he could've maybe shaped them more creatively, but let's be real, that wouldn't have done anything against Madara or Kaguya.
But in general, they OP as hell, especially if his opponent doesn't resist EE,
MinatoSparkle
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I find it interesting that Sasuke's Susanoo Arrows just neutralized them. Ig you don't need senjutsu to counter TSOs if you have SPC
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Indeed. SPC is very similar to Senjutsu chakra in many ways, but with extra perks and different methods of acquirement.
MinatoSparkle
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Kinda weird how Urashiki said his clan didn't have powers like Mitsuki
The_Alxhemist
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Probably because there's no space snakes and god knows what Orochimaru pumped in Mitsuki to get him to achieve SM
MinatoSparkle
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Eh seemed to be more about the senjutsu in general
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It's kinda like how Sage Mode is about being in tune with nature, but Otsutsuki power is about destroying it.
MinatoSparkle
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Mayhaps
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So seriously though, where would Adult SM rank in strength compared to Adult SPSM given the Multiplier and Base Naruto’s own feats compared to SPSM.
I mean, technically, “Nature Energy” supplied Naruto with Greater Strength than his SPSM by itself back in the war arc, allowing him to clash evenly with Biju-Susanoo Sasuke.
So its not as if SM “Couldn’t” scale over SPSM as there is precedence. Pre-SPSM Naruto shouldn’t be used against this as Base Naruto post SPSM > BSM (Vs Obiro). SM Naruto (Post SPSM) is a different Metric thanks to his CL’s being permanently increased with SPC.
As stated before, SPSM Naruto, while > Base Naruto, is not an order of magnitude greater. SM Amp on Current Base Naruto could very well put him over SPSM via it’s multiplier as, if SPSM Naruto absorbed NE again like against Sasuke, he would be significantly stronger than than his SPSM Form by itself.
I mean, technically, “Nature Energy” supplied Naruto with Greater Strength than his SPSM by itself back in the war arc, allowing him to clash evenly with Biju-Susanoo Sasuke.
So its not as if SM “Couldn’t” scale over SPSM as there is precedence. Pre-SPSM Naruto shouldn’t be used against this as Base Naruto post SPSM > BSM (Vs Obiro). SM Naruto (Post SPSM) is a different Metric thanks to his CL’s being permanently increased with SPC.
As stated before, SPSM Naruto, while > Base Naruto, is not an order of magnitude greater. SM Amp on Current Base Naruto could very well put him over SPSM via it’s multiplier as, if SPSM Naruto absorbed NE again like against Sasuke, he would be significantly stronger than than his SPSM Form by itself.
MinatoSparkle
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That doesn't work because SM is multiplicative. Ashura Avatar is much stronger than SPSM cause it's SPSM x SM, not SPSM + SM. If Current Naruto uses it, it'd just be Base x SM, and Base x SPSM>>that. Naruto wouldn't have used SPSM in all his major fights if SM Naruto was stronger, and there are also just statements about KA being his full power.
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Well you see, I know this has been brought up before, but Base Naruto and SPSM Naruto both access the same SPC, no? Which is why SPSM isn’t terribly above “Base Naruto”.
I understand that view point you’re saying, but doesn’t that then ignore Base Naruto’s feats, in regard's to SPSM, AS WELL AS SM Multiplier?
MinatoSparkle
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Base naruto went from being absolutely stomped by base jigen to keeping up with v1 jigen. There is definitely a significant power amp
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Base Naruto’s feats are within 10x SPSM, right? SPSM is not 10x Base Naruto or higher iirc, not even close to that. Which would mean SM multiplier would put Naruto above his SPSM.
But in order for this “Not” to be the case, we have to ignore Base Naruto’s feats putting him sub-10x SPSM and deny him the multiplier.
Or is SPSM => a 10x amp despite feats?
Also, wdym by “Unprovable”?
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Base Naruto got hit by one kick and some rods. It wasn’t a fight, much less anything you use to suggest “he was stomped”. He was being snarky w/ Kurama literally right after.
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Uhhm did we watch same thing? Naruto tried to punch him and bro got blitzed. Watch the fight with v1 jigen. The first kick jigen landed on naruto he blocked it. His Base couldn't even block a Base jigen kick.
Also those same rods he could not break out of it in base. Immediately he transformed he broke it completely.
He got hit by one kick and some rods. Yeah no shit that's how a two shot sounds like.
It's like saying code vs daemon, well code got hit by some punch and kick so he didn't get stompeed
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A single kick (And there was only one iirc, not two), which doesn’t do any major or lasting damage is not a stomp, no matter how you try to spin it. And the rods AP / Speed isn’t affected by “Karma”. It’s affected by Daikokuten, which is the same in Base as it is in Karma forms. Even SPSM had trouble with it, and Base Naruto scales to Sasuke who had no problem “pulling them out”.
You are making major leaps in your argument that isn’t supported. Naruto was “inconvenienced” by the rods, it wasn’t a “Two Shot”.
MinatoSparkle
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You can argue it but nothing quantitiably proves it.
That'd be my line of thinking.
It's unprovable that Base Naruto uses Six Paths chakra afaik
Sasuke scales to SPSM Naruto
