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"Popular vote, the top 20 will win a drawing made by Kishimoto himself!!" Amazing, he's going to do something he's done for 15 years...
 
Yes, they're the same technique, that doesn't mean they're the same speed. Kid Sasuke and Rinnegan Sasuke both use Chidori, they're the same jutsu, does that mean they're the same speed wielding it?

Because Sasuke's mental reaction speed>Lee's combat speed>Sasuke's physical reaction speed>Sasuke's combat speed

???
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Not on his page
Anyways what is the proof for those lightning attacks being lightning speed?

Ay made that statement himself, we have no idea what knowledge he has on Itachi's speed. Anyways I'm not claiming Sick Itachi is FASTER than Ay, I'm just saying the idea that he can mentally react to Ay from a distance of dozens of meters away is far from preposterous. He literally stated that if he didn't have Susanoo he would've died, meaning he wasn't fast enough to physically dodge Kirin.
Naruto Chapter 391 Page 15


I never said it was V2 Ay that's LS, just V1 Ay.
1. That scan that I show you stated that his chidori was equal to Kakashi when he cut lightning

2. You miss my point is that it doesn't matter if Sasuke have better reaction because if his body doesn't scale to his reaction his sharingan is useless

3. Your scan debunk you argument Kakashi did the Raikiri after he intercepted the lightning

4. It was not only A statement It's stated in databook. Itachi still need to activate his Susanoo. Sasuke was not able to react to V2 A that is was he put Amaterasu around his Susanoo
 
1.Because it doesn't match up to the requirements of being Immeasurable speed.

2. Sasuke did the same with Haku but his body was able to dodge. Just because there's a calc doesn't entirely prove anything, if that manga says something. I'll take that information over any calc any day unless it is proven to be false or a hyperbole...the sound ninja's specifically implied they were slower than the speed of sound.

3. It was a double lariat... and it was stated to move at a speed like light but not exactly lightspeed. Both Killer Bee and Naruto dodged his high speed attack while he wasn't holding back, he doesn't move at light speed. When he actually was moving at it, madara couldn't dodge him and tsunade. But when it came to his own speed, he was absolutely disrespected by madara. Then got disrespected again by madara's clones!
1. How?

2. Show me those scan and Haku didnt want to kill him. The sound ninja statement is prove to be flase by that calc, unless you can debunk that cacl

3. Speed like light and speed of light is the same thing. Killer B never dodge a attack from A when A was at full power. Madara be faster then him doesn't contradict any thing
 
I said haku was outside the mirrors at the time, then I said the entire LS haku thing was a contradiction. Once again in terms of power and lethality, I've already posted you a scan of zabuza the person closest to haku and raised him as his own saying he was too soft and sasuke continuing by saying he was holding back. There isn't any evidence, that he was holding back in speed terms...

Sasuke says panels/chapters after he gains 2T, not because he was holding back. It was because haku was running out of chakra. Either way this is a sasuke with 2T being able to see the same haku.

Once again...kakashi was literally in the moment of attack zabuza not knowing haku was there, this also wouldn't prove haku was moving at light speed since he was out of the mirrors...and used some type of reverse teleportation.
nothing you said contradicts the LS mirrors.

Also, there's plenty of evidence he's holding back in speed. Unless you're saying 2T Sasuke could react during their fight but Kakashi couldn't twice? Even if Kakashi was focused on Zabuza it shouldn't matter if Haku was only relative to "speed of sound" 2T Sasuke.

Haku was stated several times to be on Zabuza's level and Kid Naruto and Sasuke are nowhere near Jonin lvl at this point.

The Land of Waves arc entirely contradicts even Haku's base speed without mirrors being anywhere near as slow as Kid Sasuke.

Haku and Zabuza's reappearing and being relative to War Arc characters also seals that deal.
 
1. How?

2. Show me those scan and Haku didnt want to kill him. The sound ninja statement is prove to be flase by that calc, unless you can debunk that cacl

3. Speed like light and speed of light is the same thing. Killer B never dodge a attack from A when A was at full power. Madara be faster then him doesn't contradict any thing
1. Because it's not how it works...

2. You don't put a calc over canon information by the author, it makes you seem ******* silly. Haku didn't want to kill him but he damn well wanted to defeat him, that's why sasuke was damaged in the first place.

In Naruto, is Haku lightspeed when using his Ice Mirrors? - Quora



He even managed to arrive to naruto before haku could...
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"almost"
how fast is naruto now? - Gen. Discussion - Comic Vine
 
nothing you said contradicts the LS mirrors.

Also, there's plenty of evidence he's holding back in speed. Unless you're saying 2T Sasuke could react during their fight but Kakashi couldn't twice? Even if Kakashi was focused on Zabuza it shouldn't matter if Haku was only relative to "speed of sound" 2T Sasuke.

Haku was stated several times to be on Zabuza's level and Kid Naruto and Sasuke are nowhere near Jonin lvl at this point.

The Land of Waves arc entirely contradicts even Haku's base speed without mirrors being anywhere near as slow as Kid Sasuke.

Haku and Zabuza's reappearing and being relative to War Arc characters also seals that deal.
"Haku being lightspeed is contradicted by the manga...how could sasuke track him but failed to track rock? The sound ninja said to rock lee "If you move at high speeds than we move at the speed of sound the way they said the statement it's clear that they're slower than the speed of sound" and I brought evidence which was the message above this current one.

There is absolutely 0 evidence whatsoever. I've already told you this twice, Kakashi was already attacking zabuza. Yes it does matter because we have no evidence that at the time kakashi had a reaction speed higher than the speed of sound. Kakashi couldn't stop his chidori or move, his plan was to kill zabuza but haku appeared last second. Also what exactly would kakashi be reacting too? He wouldn't be getting attacked but he's the one attacking that person... Last question but you do understand haku wasn't in those mirrors...


What I recall is that haku had a jutsu that was more overpowered than anything zabuza had. Which was his KG.
How strong was Zabuza and Haku In Naruto? Could they defeat an Akatsuki  member? - Quora

Kid naruto going beserk mode embarrassed haku, and he hadn't reached his limit at the time. What was the point about bringing that up when this was about "Speed" and not strength?.

Haku used a teleportation jutsu...not actual speed movement.
Never heard of a retcon? Kishimoto retconned their strength at the war arc to make them stronger, and they weren't even doing that well...
 
1. That scan that I show you stated that his chidori was equal to Kakashi when he cut lightning
Literally all this says is that Raikiri is Chidori's nickname.
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2. You miss my point is that it doesn't matter if Sasuke have better reaction because if his body doesn't scale to his reaction his sharingan is useless
Yeah but the Sharingan allows his body to react quicker.
3. Your scan debunk you argument Kakashi did the Raikiri after he intercepted the lightning
We don't know when he activated the Raikiri. But considering he was trying to save his comrades it'd make more sense for him to go full speed. If he didn't use Raikiri, you know that just downscales V1 Ay right?
4. It was not only A statement It's stated in databook. Itachi still need to activate his Susanoo. Sasuke was not able to react to V2 A that is was he put Amaterasu around his Susanoo
?? Where does the databook state Ay is the fastest shinobi in the world?

I know, but all that takes is a mental activation of the jutsu rather than him needing to physically do something to set it up. Activating the Susanoo with a thought is faster than say weaving handsigns to make an Earth style barrier.

That is mentally reacting by activating Amaterasu. And again, that's V2 Ay, Kirin is the speed of V1 Ay's Lariat.
 
"Haku being lightspeed is contradicted by the manga...how could sasuke track him but failed to track rock? The sound ninja said to rock lee "If you move at high speeds than we move at the speed of sound the way they said the statement it's clear that they're slower than the speed of sound" and I brought evidence which was the message above this current one.
Sasuke tracked a Haku that was stated by various characters to not be trying to kill them unless you have evidence that he was only holding back power and not speed he doesn't scale to a serious Haku.
There is absolutely 0 evidence whatsoever. I've already told you this twice, Kakashi was already attacking zabuza. Yes it does matter because we have no evidence that at the time kakashi had a reaction speed higher than the speed of sound. Kakashi couldn't stop his chidori or move, his plan was to kill zabuza but haku appeared last second. Also what exactly would kakashi be reacting too? He wouldn't be getting attacked but he's the one attacking that person... Last question but you do understand haku wasn't in those mirrors...
Kakashi's lore has him chopping bolts of lightning in half before they could touch the ground something that is verbatim stated in the manga. Also, the Sharingan allows you to keep up and fight with people much faster than you with a sense of precog. How would Kakashi not have seen Haku coming unless he was much faster? It's not like the fight was still going on and Kakashi got off guarded Zabuza was already defeated.
What I recall is that haku had a jutsu that was more overpowered than anything zabuza had. Which was his KG.
How strong was Zabuza and Haku In Naruto? Could they defeat an Akatsuki  member? - Quora
Zabuza states Haku is superior a couple of times. Kid Sasuke is not relative to Kakashi or Zabuza in any capacity.
Kid naruto going beserk mode embarrassed haku, and he hadn't reached his limit at the time. What was the point about bringing that up when this was about "Speed" and not strength?.

Haku used a teleportation jutsu...not actual speed movement.
Trying to scale Kurama Amp Naruto to base Naruto doesn't work because the amps aren't linear even Kakashi and Zabuza were worried when Naruto was enraged. Also, when did Haku use a teleportation Jutsu? if you mean Body flicker that isn't teleportation.
Never heard of a retcon? Kishimoto retconned their strength at the war arc to make them stronger, and they weren't even doing that well...
What retcon? Nothing contradicts them being that strong besides your opinion. even Land of Waves Kakashi is stated to be the strongest jonin in the leaf and could be a Hokage candidate. Haku and Zabuza being stated relative to this Kakashi just shows how strong they were in retrospect.

Haku being close to Kakashi and Zabuza and Haku holding back on Naruto and Sasuke are both things stated in the manga. Unless you have some kind of proof that Haku wasn't holding back speed specifically and was only holding back on everything else for some reason, then nothing that happened in the Naruto and Sasuke vs Haku fight matters for scaling them, and nothing contradicts the light-speed mirrors.
 
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You did see that Naruto Stans hope for Naruto Remake will happened but instead, we got Naruto: Sasuke's story. I'm not fan of romance.

I'm laughing at Naruto Stans who salty at Boruto is still ongoing you know what? Sasuke's story is part of Naruto/Borutoverse. I was rolling eyes at Infinite Tsukuyomi theory in all these years.

Still Boruto is part of Narutoverse. That's end of story
 
You did see that Naruto Stans hope for Naruto Remake will happened but instead, we got Naruto: Sasuke's story. I'm not fan of romance.

I'm laughing at Naruto Stans who salty at Boruto is still ongoing you know what? Sasuke's story is part of Naruto/Borutoverse. I was rolling eyes at Infinite Tsukuyomi theory in all these years.

Still Boruto is part of Narutoverse. That's end of story
Saw a vid of YTber crying. A grown ass man crying cause Boruto being a Tsukuyomi theory wasn't true, cause there was no anime remake LMFAO
 
Sasuke tracked a Haku that was stated by various characters to not be trying to kill them unless you have evidence that he was only holding back power and not speed he doesn't scale to a serious Haku.

Kakashi's lore has him chopping bolts of lightning in half before they could touch the ground something that is verbatim stated in the manga. Also, the Sharingan allows you to keep up and fight with people much faster than you with a sense of precog. How would Kakashi not have seen Haku coming unless he was much faster? It's not like the fight was still going on and Kakashi got off guarded Zabuza was already defeated.

Zabuza states Haku is superior a couple of times. Kid Sasuke is not relative to Kakashi or Zabuza in any capacity.

Trying to scale Kurama Amp Naruto to base Naruto doesn't work because the amps aren't linear even Kakashi and Zabuza were worried when Naruto was enraged. Also, when did Haku use a teleportation Jutsu? if you mean Body flicker that isn't teleportation.

What retcon? Nothing contradicts them being that strong besides your opinion. even Land of Waves Kakashi is stated to be the strongest jonin in the leaf and could be a Hokage candidate. Haku and Zabuza being stated relative to this Kakashi just shows how strong they were in retrospect.

Haku being close to Kakashi and Zabuza and Haku holding back on Naruto and Sasuke are both things stated in the manga. Unless you have some kind of proof that Haku wasn't holding back speed specifically and was only holding back on everything else for some reason, then nothing that happened in the Naruto and Sasuke vs Haku fight matters for scaling them, and nothing contradicts the light-speed mirrors.
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever....Haku held back in power and in being lethal not speed. You're the who claimed he was holding back in terms with speed, so you need to show evidence and not me.

Kakashi has rel reaction speed then. I didn't say that...what I said to you was that Kakashi was already moving. Please explain how "haku speedblitzed kakashi"
The best example I could give you is this. You're in a car going at your speed limit and it carries a lot of weight due to it's momentum so it'll take some time to slow down. You're charging towards a person in a hallway of some sort and you cannot turn left or right, so you have no choice but to keep going. This is the same exact case with kakashi and the chidori. He's moving at a speed that's so fast, that he can't move any direction except the initial direction he wanted to go in the first place.

The destruction, chakra, and thrust-Is the weight
and the speed is obviously the speed
Is the Chidori always a speed amp or if you get fast enough, can you avoid  tunnel visioning? - Quora
Kakashi slicing lightning shouldn't be used as a speed feat :  r/CharacterRant

There is 0 evidence that Kakashi was speedblitzed and he couldn't react to him.

In terms of one specific jutsu and not strength...sasuke has better reaction speed than zabuza and haku due to the sharingan...
I wasn't scaling a beserk kurama to a base naruto...






Where they're stronger than before for the sake of the war arc plot, beserk naruto completely overpowered haku... Yes it does there's a reason why zabuza was getting overpowered and was nearly killed but was saved. Then proceeded to get embarrassed by Kakashi. There's no statement of that. Kakashi wasn't a hokage candidate at the time...anyways they weren't stated to be relative or even similar to Kakashi. So yes it's quite obvious it was retconned.

No statement of haku being relative to zabuza and kakashi...haku wasn't holding back in terms of speed. You have no evidence so the burden of evidence is on you, to show that he was. I've already proven that he was only holding back in strength and being lethal of course until later in the fight.. You have to show evidence that he was holding back in speed because you're the one that brought up the claim in the first place. I am negative while you're positive. I've already explained how it did , and you said "He was holding back in speed" so you must prove he was holding back in speed.
 
1. Because it's not how it works...

2. You don't put a calc over canon information by the author, it makes you seem ******* silly. Haku didn't want to kill him but he damn well wanted to defeat him, that's why sasuke was damaged in the first place.

In Naruto, is Haku lightspeed when using his Ice Mirrors? - Quora



He even managed to arrive to naruto before haku could...
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12.jpg

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"almost"
how fast is naruto now? - Gen. Discussion - Comic Vine
1. that is not a argument

2. the author also stated that Naruto can move at march 5

3. You just prove that he was holding back when he fight Naruto and Sasuke

4. Other translation said that it's light speed
V1_Ay_and_Bee_Lariat_is_Light_Speed_collage.png
 
1. that is not a argument

2. the author also stated that Naruto can move at march 5

3. You just prove that he was holding back when he fight Naruto and Sasuke

4. Other translation said that it's light speed
V1_Ay_and_Bee_Lariat_is_Light_Speed_collage.png
1. You claimed "he's immesurable speed" without any evidence and you just assumed it.

2. No the hell he did not .-.

3. No I did not .-.

4. That's false...the translation I sent you was the official english translation.
 
Literally all this says is that Raikiri is Chidori's nickname.
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Yeah but the Sharingan allows his body to react quicker.

We don't know when he activated the Raikiri. But considering he was trying to save his comrades it'd make more sense for him to go full speed. If he didn't use Raikiri, you know that just downscales V1 Ay right?

?? Where does the databook state Ay is the fastest shinobi in the world?

I know, but all that takes is a mental activation of the jutsu rather than him needing to physically do something to set it up. Activating the Susanoo with a thought is faster than say weaving handsigns to make an Earth style barrier.

That is mentally reacting by activating Amaterasu. And again, that's V2 Ay, Kirin is the speed of V1 Ay's Lariat.
1. after that guy said that it's the same justsu that Kakashi use to cut lightning

2. Just your headcanon and how does that downscale the raikage

3. Sasuke could react and Kakashi while he was going blind while Sasuke with his MS could not react to the Raikage
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Karin stated that nothing can match the raikage speed

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For the popularity contest, even though it's highly unlikely I really hope either Kaguya or Sakura win it.

If Sakura tops it, then there's a solid chance to see Sakura Hiden adapted as a manga.

If Kaguya tops it, then there's a huge chance we get to see her backstory in a weekly format, as opposed to the monthly format if they decided to show her backstory in Boruto. And as a bonus more Isshiki.
 
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