Naruto Speed Revisions and Scaling III

[Jvando]

Intro

Continued from here

Others

• Danzō Shimura (MHS+ or are least MHS+)
• Shisui Uchiha (MHS+)

High Tiers
Characters to scales above Mid Tiers:

• A (Third Raikage)
• Hiruzen Sarutobi
• Minato Namikaze (Base and sage mode)
• Sasuke Uchiha (Part II) (Sub-rel perception with MS)
• Naruto Uzumaki (Part II) (Six Tails and KCM)
• Nagato (Edo Tensei)
• Itachi Uchiha (Edo Tensei)
• Kisame Hoshigaki (Samehada Fusion)
• Kakashi Hatake (War Arc)
• Might Guy (6th Gate and 7th Gate)
• Kabuto Yakushi (Sage Mode)
• Obito Uchiha (With Rinnegan)
• Yugito Nii
• Rōshi (Naruto)
• Fü (likely)
• Killer B (Ver 1, 2, full tailed beast)
• Kushina Uzumaki (likely: reacted to Kurama's attack against Naruto)
• Jiraiya (likely: Base(Sage Mode)
• Orochimaru
• Hanzō
• Tsunade (likely)
• A (Fourth Raikage) (Base: MHS+; lighting armor: Sub-Rel)
• Gaara (War Arc)
• Mei Terumi
• Onoki
• Rasa (MHS+ with sub-rel attack speed?)
• Gengetsu Hōzuki
• Shukaku (Ichibi) (At least)
• Matatabi (Nibi) (At least)
• Isobu (Sanbi) (At least)
• Kokuo (Gobi) (At least)
• Saiken (Rokubi) (At least)
• Kurama (Kyübi) (At least)

Everyone here scales to Sub-Relativistic, via Might Guy's Gate multiplier with Kakashi's Mach 2935 feat putting them at a nice 1.67% SoL which would mean they are at least Sub-Relativistic likely much higher with the other Gates that Guy uses (The 5x multiplier is only stated with the first gate and the other gates increase speed and power to an unknown degree)

The 5x multiplier for Gate Guy and Gate Lee was accepted here

Top Tiers
Characters who scales above and are faster than the previous Tier :

• Naruto Uzumaki (Part II) (BM and BSM)
• Sasuke Uchiha (Part II) (EMS and with Juugo Senjutsu)
• Madara Uchiha (Alive, Edo, Senjutsu)
• Hashirama Senju (Base, Sage Mode)
• Tobirama Senju
• Minato Namikaze (BM)
• Juubito (and above)

Everyone here scales to Relativistic Speeds (28% of SoL), seeing Madara's reaction to and defense of Tenso-no-Jutsu. There's no Outlier here and I will explain:

1. Madara proved to be able to play and was extremely casual against the Kages. Ay's fastest punch was simply blocked and called "fast" by Madara while he was distracted by Mei Terumi's Jutsu. At all times, Madara is playing with them.
2. Even when Onoki used his weight-reducing jutsu to make Ay get much faster and attack at full speed and Mei try to obstruct his vision with fog, Madara just wasn't surprised.
3. Madara is one of the fastest Top Tiers on the verse. With only other Top Tiers being able to rival him.

That is, it is quite obvious that no one there could keep up with Madara and he did not fight at any serious moment receiving a few attacks just to "show them" something.

God Tiers
Characters that scales far above any Top Tier :

• Naruto Uzumaki (Part II) (SPSM)
• Sasuke Uchiha (Part II) (Rinnegan)
• Might Guy (8th Gate)
• Madara Uchiha (Six Paths and above)
• Kaguya Ōtsutsuki
• Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki
• Hamura Ōtsutsuki
• Toneri Ōtsutsuki
• Momoshiki Ōtsutsuki
• Kinshiki Ōtsutsuki
• Delta (Boruto)
• Jige
• Naruto Uzumaki (New Era)
• Sasuke Uchiha (New Era)

God tiers scale to FTL up to 2.88c and other calculations.

Conclusion
High Tiers are at least Sub-Relativístic (1.67% of SoL) via the Gate Multipliers.

Top Tiers scales above then with Madara performing a Relativístic Feat (28% of SoL).

God Tiers scale above Top Tiers at to FTL (2.88c)

SOME EXTRA POINTS

• No Mid Tier will scale to Sub-Relativistic, thus making Hebi Sasuke's statements about Kirin and Amaterasu consistent.

• There are two sandboxes where the revised ratings have been expanded upon, here and here.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Can someone summarize the points from the previous thread?

 

[Damage3245]

I'll make a summary of my proposals tomorrow morning.

I also have some new proposals for some of the high tier characters we haven't discussed yet.

 

[TataHakai]

So who are the ones left to discuss out of the high tiers for the speed?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

I think we are still discussing the sanin.

 

[AstralKing7]

Oro definitely sub rel. I'm not even going to argue this anymore cause I swear if I were to go get the scans like literally anyone else it would be annoying when literally anyone else can go get the scans.

Oro doesn't get any "likely" sub rel. He gets a full on definitely sub rel. This is the guy whose chakra and power and body literally made Kabuto to be sub rel himself.

A matter of fact here is a page out of Damage's own book. He was literally the one who was controlling the Kage when they had gotten revived. Saying he isn't at the least sub rel makes no sense when the Kage were performing those feats and even higher.

 

[Jvando]

Well, Orochimaru didn't control them (During the 4th Ninja war). They had full autonomy so they could be at their best

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Orochi used an incomplete version of the Edo Tensei when he fought Hiruzen. When Sasuke wanted to talk to them, Orochi said that they could break out of the jutsu whenever they wanted.

 

[AstralKing7]

I guess that's right but the main argument his Oros own sage mode that Kabuto absorbed. Let's not forget this

 

[Omimi]

kisame also scale to Ver 1 killer bee so he scale to sub-rel

so disagree with damage

 

[Damage3245]

I guess that's right but the main argument his Oros own sage mode that Kabuto absorbed. Let's not forget this

I don't think that's true. Kabuto learned Sage Mode on his own when he trained under the White Snake Sage.

Orochimaru couldn't learn Sage Mode because he didn't have a compatible body.

 

[Neshic]

what about DMS Kakashi ? Isn't he like blitzed Kaguya and saved Sakura from her ?

 

[Damage3245]

@Neshic; DMS Kakashi will likely be in the Top Tier or God Tier.

 

[Neshic]

@Damage3245 thanks for the answer.

 

[BlackeJan]

Why isn't Base Kisame Sub Rel when he had fought Jins before?

 

[Damage3245]

Why isn't Base Kisame Sub Rel when he had fought Jins before?

Most of the Jins, when they're alive, don't scale to Sub-Rel.

 

[BlackeJan]

Then what would Base Sannins be?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

What's the summary of the last thread?

 

[Damage3245]

Then what would Base Sannins be?

I'm currently writing up my list of proposals for several of the high tier characters; so far I've got the base Sannin as "At least MHS+, likely higher".

@Wrath of Itachi; I'm writing up a summary / expanded list, but I'm a bit busy. It will be posted today.

 

[Omimi]

tobi and deidara scale to 3 tails

https://**********.com/read-online/Naruto-chapter-317.html

and we can just scale kakshi to v2 jin

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; we've already settled on Kakashi.

And I don't see how we can scale Deidara / Tobi to the 3-Tails from that.

 

[Omimi]

tobi out run 3-Tails

and Deidara can hit 3-Tails

we've already settled on Kakashi.

sub-rel? if not than we did not settled on Kakashi.

and Kisame scale to v1 B

putting them on MHS+ is wrong when they gave sub-rel feat

 

[AstralKing7]

I don't think that's true. Kabuto learned Sage Mode on his own when he trained under the White Snake Sage.

Orochimaru couldn't learn Sage Mode because he didn't have a compatible body.


I'm glad I literally have the scans to disprove this

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; yes, Sub-Rel for War Arc Kakashi.

Ignoring the fact that we don't know how fast the 3-Tails is swimming after Tobi there, Deidara hitting the 3-Tails from behind with a surprise explosion doesn't mean his combat speed is close to the 3-Tails.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Can we improve Kakashi's justifications? Currently in the sandbox, he scales from Obito. Something like that

Sub-Relativistic (Intercepted an attack from White Mask Obito and kept up with him. Can keep up with 6th Gates Guy, Kurama Chakra Mode Naruto and Version 2 Jinchürikis)

I hate justifications like "Kept up with X" and nothing more

 

[Damage3245]

I'm glad I literally have the scans to disprove this

Okay... But you'd be using scans to disprove scans which is odd.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Why would you assume the 3 tails isnt going full speed to try and hit tobi?

 

[Damage3245]

@M3X; yeah, I hate very basic justifications too, so something like that is a lot better.

 

[Damage3245]

Why would you assume the 3 tails isnt going full speed to try and hit tobi?

We don't have a speed value for how quickly the 3-Tails can swim, do we?

 

[M3X_2.0]

I remember a statement saying 3 Tails is the fastest Biju underwater

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Why wouldn't we assume he is as fast underwater as he is on land? I dont really see why we would differentiate it.

 

[AstralKing7]

Okay... But you'd be using scans to disprove scans which is odd.


Retcons do happen in Naruot...

 

[Damage3245]

@Wrath of Itachi; the only time he moves at significant speed on-land is when he is doing he spin-dash manoeuvre to roll into his enemies. I don't see a reason to assume that he is swimming at Sub-Relativistic speeds based on that.

@M3X; I'll include your suggested description for Kakashi in the list I'm preparing.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

He has the feats in his V2 which is weaker than his full transformation.

 

[Omimi]

yes, Sub-Rel for War Arc Kakashi.

• ok

Ignoring the fact that we don't know how fast the 3-Tails is swimming after Tobi there, Deidara hitting the 3-Tails from behind with a surprise explosion doesn't mean his combat speed is close to the 3-Tails.

• i dont see any surprise explosion.explosion occured after his bomb(fish) catch up to 3 tails

• but shouldn't he be atleast sub-rel in attack speed for able to hit 3 tails who was chasing tobi
  
  

 

[Damage3245]

Retcons do happen in Naruot...

Well, that is true.

I'm guessing you're referring to this scene with your earlier comments.

But Kabuto can still enter Sage Mode himself, and as Kabuto explained Orochimaru originally couldn't learn Sage Mode due to his incompatible body.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

He also keeps up with the other Biju when they rush BM Naruto.

 

[AstralKing7]

File:A47F2Oro.png

Oro has always had senjutsu. Idk how people keep forgetting. The pigmentations around his eyes are literally proof of Snake Sage mode.

Even if you want to continue to say he couldn't learn it lol when he took his chakra and Senjutsu away from Kabuto his form had released which only means one thing.

Also just because he couldn't "learn" Sage mode doesn't mean he couldn't obtain it in different ways. Every curse make user has Senjutsu which increases all of their stats. Oro even said he took his Senjutsu out of the cursed seal also.

Next Mitsuki didn't learn his Sage Mode neither. I rest my case


Finally Kabuto literally states that he absorbed Oros power and lifeforce(chakra) which raised his stars and abilities.

You can literally see the Sage pigmentations around his eyes where Hinata states Oro's power had started corroding his body

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7; Orochimaru couldn't properly learn Sage Mode himself, but he did manage to use Senjutsu in other ways such as the Curse Marks.

I don't think there's a retcon here. It's just that Orochimaru couldn't use Sage Mode, even though he could make use of some Senjutsu.

 

[Omimi]