Naruto Pre Timeskip Verse Revision

[KingTempest]

The Narutoverse needs to be revised for its scaling.

This thread has some input

https://vsbattles.com/threads/sasuke-retrieval-arc.110996/

But it'll be constructed over a whole verse based edit.

The calcs on the verse page are these

• Sasuke kicks a bear 12.2 tons (City block level)
• Zaku makes a crater 16.57 tons (City Block level)
• Sasuke's Fireball Jutsu 18.58 tons (City Block level)
• Part 1 Gaara's Sand Coffin Attack Potency 223.98 Tons (Multi-City Block level)
• KN0 Naruto's Attack Potency 3.42 Kilotons (Small Town level+)
• Gaara's Sand Tsunami 7.48 Kilotons (Town level)

And there's potentially more scattered throughout the Naruto profiles.

I advise we work from the beginning of the series in order to the end to figure out scaling, and Shippuden should only be mentioned if theres's a statement about backscaling.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

What issues do you have with the scaling?

 

[KingTempest]

First.​

Naruto Uzumaki
Attack Potency: City Block level, Town level with Kurama Influence (Zabuza stated that his chakra was “bigger” than Kakashi’s. Completely overwhelmed Haku. Stopped the charge of Orochimaru’s snake with a little bit of the Kyuubi’s chakra) | At least City Block level (Stronger than before)

Town Level with Kurama Influence.
#1, the calc w/ the justification got Small Town level+ results.
#2, the other justification is "chakra is bigger than Kakashi's", which loops him to another small town level+ calc.

So Naruto's Town Justification needs to get thrown back to Small Town ASAP, and everyone else who doesn't massively upscale needs to go back down too.

Also, how does base Naruto scale to City Block level?

Second.​

What in the universe do Hiruzen, Orochimaru, and all of those people scale to?
There's a looped scaling that brings it to Mountain Level, but there are no mountain level calcs...

Third​

We have already discussed time and time again in the other threads that "Stronger" ≠ "More AP".
Scaling like "Sakon > Tayuya > Kidomaru > Jirobo" shouldn't be a thing.
Also scaling like "Kakashi > Genma and Raidou" shouldn't be a thing.
"Might Guy > Asuma" shouldn't be a thing.
"Itachi > Kisame" shouldn't be a thing.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

First.​

Naruto Uzumaki
Attack Potency: City Block level, Town level with Kurama Influence (Zabuza stated that his chakra was “bigger” than Kakashi’s. Completely overwhelmed Haku. Stopped the charge of Orochimaru’s snake with a little bit of the Kyuubi’s chakra) | At least City Block level (Stronger than before)

Town Level with Kurama Influence.
#1, the calc w/ the justification got Small Town level+ results.
#2, the other justification is "chakra is bigger than Kakashi's", which loops him to another small town level+ calc.

So Naruto's Town Justification needs to get thrown back to Small Town ASAP, and everyone else who doesn't massively upscale needs to go back down too.

Also, how does base Naruto scale to City Block level?

Second.​

What in the universe do Hiruzen, Orochimaru, and all of those people scale to?
There's a looped scaling that brings it to Mountain Level, but there are no mountain level calcs...

Third​

We have already discussed time and time again in the other threads that "Stronger" ≠ "More AP".
Scaling like "Sakon > Tayuya > Kidomaru > Jirobo" shouldn't be a thing.
Also scaling like "Kakashi > Genma and Raidou" shouldn't be a thing.
"Might Guy > Asuma" shouldn't be a thing.
"Itachi > Kisame" shouldn't be a thing.

Naruto and Sasuke were upscale to the next tier due to be Lee's than 1.5x away from 7-C.

 

[KingTempest]

Naruto and Sasuke were upscale to the next tier due to be Lee's than 1.5x away from 7-C.

They have no reason to upscale at that point in time.
It's not less than 1.5x away, it's actually 1.6, almost 1.7x away from 7-C, so it wouldn't warrant an upscale.

 

[Damage3245]

Let's try and scale back on the upscaling and rate the characters first off based on the actual values. Then we can try and determine the accuracy of that.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

I'm still waiting on three of my part 1 calcs to get evaluated which can help with scaling.

 

[KingTempest]

Low tiers scale off of Sasuke's durability, which is ~ Sasuke's AP of kicking the bear, 12 tons.

Why does Zaku's durability scale to his AP? That's the basis for a lot of the low tier pre timeskip scaling.

An issue w/ the scaling is from the fact that everybody who scales to the Small Town+ feat from KN0 upscales, even Naruto who did the feat upscales to Town level during that arc for no reason.

 

[BlackeJan]

They have no reason to upscale at that point in time.
It's not less than 1.5x away, it's actually 1.6, almost 1.7x away from 7-C, so it wouldn't warrant an upscale.

I think then we can give a Likely since they appear to be stronger then that Lee who is close to baseline 7-C

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

IIRC 7-C was a mistake on upscaling in the previous CRT which happened because of using the logic "Naruto used more Kyuubi Chakra against Haku than the Snake so he should upscale"

 

[KingTempest]

I think then we can give a Likely since they appear to be stronger then that Lee who is close to baseline 7-C

Rock Lee scales to City Block level off of Sasuke. Nobody scales to 7-C via feats except End of Part 1 Sasuke

Even Kimimaro doesn't scale to Town Level, he hurt a bunch of clones.

 

[BlackeJan]

Oh I ready wrong from the comments above lol

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Low tiers scale off of Sasuke's durability, which is ~ Sasuke's AP of kicking the bear, 12 tons.

Question

Would Sasuke's AP description be:

8-B (12 Tons), higher with Katon [18 Tons (And Chidori for later Keys)]

While SS and Durability would just be:

8-B (12 Tons)

 

[KingTempest]

Question

Would Sasuke's AP description be:

8-B (12 Tons), higher with Katon [18 Tons (And Chidori for later Keys)]

While SS and Durability would just be:

8-B (12 Tons)

This is exactly how it would be.

 

[KingTempest]

I'm still waiting on three of my part 1 calcs to get evaluated which can help with scaling.

Naruto Snake Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

Naruto Stops a Giant Snake

vsbattles.fandom.com

What else is there?

 

[LordTracer]

8-B (12 Tons), higher with Katon [18 Tons (And Chidori for later Keys)]

Okay, this doesn’t need to be a thing. I’m pretty sure you only separate things in the AP like that if they’re different tiers or significantly stronger. Sasuke’s physicals and Katon are both 8-B, and not that far apart from each other, so there’s no need to separate them in his AP section.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

This is exactly how it would be.

Okay what about Haku, specifically his Mirrors' and his own Durability?

The Mirrors could withstand Sasuke's Katon but not KNO Naruto's punch while Haku was able to take a hit from that Naruto, and still move in-between Zabuza and Kakashi.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I would personally still put the separation with a difference fo 6 tons tbh.

 

[LordTracer]

That’s a 1.5x difference, which is an extremely small amount. If Sasuke’s physicals were 8-B and his Katon was like, 8-B+ or 8-A, then yeah it should be separated.

But a difference of 1.5x that’s still within 8-B? That just seems unnecessary.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Just put "higher with katon"

 

[KingTempest]

Okay what about Haku, specifically his Mirrors' and his own Durability?

Haku's Mirrors would scale.

The Mirrors could withstand Sasuke's Katon but not KNO Naruto's punch while Haku was able to take a hit from that Naruto, and still move in-between Zabuza and Kakashi.

Surviving enough to do something else ≠ durability.

Just put "higher with katon"

What about higher w/ Ninjutsu?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Surviving enough to do something else ≠ durability.

He wasn't even that injured though?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Higher with Ninjutsu is fine.

 

[KingTempest]

He wasn't even that injured though?

He punched him in his mask, drew blood, then Haku said "Master Zabuza, I'm finished"

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

He punched him in his mask, drew blood, then Haku said "Master Zabuza, I'm finished"

So getting hit in the face, sent through a mirror, and tumbling on the ground doesn't warrant him having at Least 8-B Durability or higher?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Haku also didn’t really want to fight them, no? If so, I would personally argue that he just stopped there because of motivation, not that he actually got injured enough to think he couldn’t fight anymore.

 

[LordTracer]

He was very clearly not that injured. Yes, blood was drawn, but there were no major injuries to his face and the moment Zabuza was about to die, he immediately hopped up and flew over with the ice mirror.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

And another thing was that his main method of fighting, pincushioning his opponents, was ineffective against KNO Naruto

 

[KingTempest]

Ok.

7-C dura for Haku

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Ok.

7-C dura for Haku

Nobody once said 7-C Dura you don't have to be petty

 

[KingTempest]

Nobody once said 7-C Dura you don't have to be petty

I'm not being petty.

KN0 Naruto is 7-C, he gets the AP. Haku took his attacks, he gets the dura.

I meant to say Low 7-C, it's all good.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

What is going on with Naruto recently, I thought major revisions were planned

 

[LordTracer]

What is going on with Naruto recently, I thought major revisions were planned

There were. And then stuff happened.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

I'm not being petty.

KN0 Naruto is 7-C, he gets the AP. Haku took his attacks, he gets the dura.

I meant to say Low 7-C, it's all good.

Ok my apologies

Haku would honestly just downscale from Naruto's Low 7-C+ 3.42 similar to how others downscale from Sasuke's 8-B 12 Tons

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

What is going on with Naruto recently, I thought major revisions were planned

We're going back to square one then working our way back to Boruto

CRTs stalled because of numerous self exiles

 

[KingTempest]

How would people downscale from Sasuke's 8-B kicking bear feat?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Low tiers scale off of Sasuke's durability, which is ~ Sasuke's AP of kicking the bear, 12 tons.

I thought you meant they would scale to that when you posted this

 

[KingTempest]

I thought you meant they would scale to that when you posted this

I'm saying that's what they currently scale to. I was confused why

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

We're going back to square one then working our way back to Boruto

CRTs stalled because of numerous self exiles

Wow really? That's gonna take such a long time

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

I'm saying that's what they currently scale to. I was confused why

Well Lee, Neji, Naruto (Chunin Exams/Konoha Crush), Gaara (Durability/Partial Transformation), Sound 4, Hinata (I think), and some others could definitely scale to 8-B Sasuke, possibly