Naruto: Light Fang Revision

[Xulrev]

Since this is a huge issue at the moment after more than 5 years of being analyzed as a feat, I decided to re-analyze the feat and noticed something interesting about it.

The attack called Storm Release: Light Fang creates, according to databook, a beam of light that the user swings at a foe and is incapable of blocking/evading (paraphrased, don't argue the semantics of translation since I included both).

Now the interesting part of this is the fact that the beam of 'light' that the Storm Release (note, not Yin-Yang release which actually manipulates light and darkness) creates, when swung, notably and definitively bends:

Note that a straight line from Madara's mouth along the path of the beam from its point of origin is off-track by the termination point of the beam

From the bottom of the beam, you get a similar result. The beam has a demonstrable arc to it when swung, something a beam of light should not do.

For those wishing to utilize the anime as evidence of it being a beam and not bending, well that has its own issues, namely this:

The beam dissipates at random, haphazard points along the beam, rather than terminating from its point of origin outward . A beam of light being shut off does not dissipate like this, ever.

Per the resources for what constitutes light being light on this wiki itself, the page for that being here , an attack must fit a few of 5 criteria to be definitively called light:


1. The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...

2. The beam reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror

3. The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources

4. It is stated to be made of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source

5. It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera

For those arguing it is indeed light, the beam only fits one of these criteria, that of being stated to be light itself, with the source being a databook.

An attack can NOT fit any of the following 3 criteria, since if it does it cannot be light:

1. It is shown at different speeds in the same material

2. It is tangible and can be interacted with physically by normal humans

3. They do not travel in straight lines (unless you can prove refraction/reflection, see above)

The Light Fang, as shown, fits one of these criteria solidly, that of 'do not travel in straight lines' due to the curve. Arguably, per anime, it also fits 'shown at different speeds in the same material' due to dissipating at a different rate along the beam when terminated.

To sum up:

1. Light Fang bends in the manga when swung by Madara

2. Light Fang utilizes Storm Release, which is not the jutsu related to manipulating light

3. Light Fang dissipates at varying speed in the anime

4. Light Fang's only support for being light is a databook statement

5. Per wiki guidelines, Light Fang cannot be made of light given the above points and their context

 

[BlackeJan]

Why in the world was this made when we already have another thread going on? move it to over there

 

[The_Causality]

I don't get it but

An attack can not be light but move at the speed of light, if the databook said that it move at the speed of light, legit light or not, this is lightspeed or i've missed something

 

[Xulrev]

@BlackeJan

The other thread is for discussion of the headswing only per OP

@Causality

The databook states a beam of light is created, and things get sliced at the speed of light by it. However, per wiki rules, it meets a criterion which disproves it being light.

 

[The_Causality]

Okay but

Being light or not doesn't change the fact that it move at lightspeed no?

 

[Xulrev]

Hypothetically, sure. However nothing indicates the beam projected moves at lightspeed, and there would need to be a plethora of evidence given for it considering, per wiki guidelines, it cannot be definitively stated to be light.

 

[The_Causality]

Well, i don't remebers of Databook's statement and i don't really want to get involved into this, so i can't tell you if it's right or not

I'll just let people arguing about the most safe way.

 

[StrongClick]

Good write up, I'm surprised this got passed in the first place

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

I agree 100% I don't think there's any proof for the Light Fang being light speed.

 

[Aernasilver]

So Light fang bends, is not intangible since it can cut stuff, doesn't reflect off anything, doesn't come from stuff like a camera and doesn't come from a scientific person.

Its only criteria of being lightspeed comes from a databook which I argue is not scientific nor reliable in anyway (Kishimoto doesn't even know the speed of lightning).

How did this even pass in the first place. Ridiculous.

 

[MostPowerfull]

LF never bowed in manga , much less in Anime. Literally, there is no loop there. A laser that bends, is the Laser Circus.
Being the Liberation of the Storm is no big deal. Simply Fallacy of the Association. It is the same as saying that the rubber produced by Lava Release is not real (even being resistant to electricity) or that the smoke is not real because it's Fire Release.
The databook itself tells it to be a beam of light.
It has never been shown to moved at different speeds. We do not see it moving at a speed x in an object and at speed y in the same object. This is just Madara disabling the Jutsu, not him moving differently. It does not need to be created much less dissipated instantly, just move at that speed.
And that alone is enough to be accepted many times on this Wiki.
But he is. Laser is used to cut/pierce/burn and can do this. Therefore, there is no wrong criterion here.

The proof that the LF is real is:

• Move in a straight line.
• It is declared to be made of light.
• It has a natural source.
• It is stated to possess the speed of light.
• Features a true laser: Cut / burn.

Little to discuss about it.

 

[Aernasilver]

ÔÇó It bends

ÔÇó Only the name of it

ÔÇó Natural source what?

ÔÇó Only in the databook which is unreliable since it also states to be unblockable/undodgeable

ÔÇó It doesn't cut nor burn like a true laser

Edit: also since you guys love using the anime which I disagree with, light does not dissipate like that.

 

[MostPowerfull]

ÔÇó Nope. I proved you wrong above.

ÔÇó Declared...

ÔÇó Senjutsu... Natural Energy.. .Cosmic Energy (Since solar energy is also considered natural energy, via Toneri feat), whatever...

ÔÇó Naruto did not block him.

ÔÇó He cut the staff. So follow the line of a true laser (as opposed to saying that it is not true, because it can not interact in any way). That is, we will sink downgrade into 99% of the feats of Laser ... Most of them do not cut or burn like a TRUE laser.

ÔÇó No need to dissipate as real light ... Need to move at the speed of light.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Interesting I never noticed it was curved when he swung.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I agree with the op the revision was rushed through too fast

 

[StrongClick]

You're right after further inspection, the beam isn't straight at all.

 

[BlackeJan]

Ok....did y'all really think it bends? is this a joke?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Do you see the red line he drew?

 

[BlackeJan]

What the heck its still straight! do y'all not know what a bend is? again this is poor counterargument going on here. Y'all arguments was ALOT better in the other thread then this

 

[M3X_2.0]

Do you see the red line he drew?

It is common. Art made by hand. The beam is straight, a little curve does not disprove at all, it is just art

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Isn't that panel riddled with straight lines?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Maybe

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

So he drew the movement lines perfect, but not the actual technique is what your saying then?

 

[Jvando]

Woah alright, hold on a sec. Why are people saying that the beam isn't straight at all or that it definitely bends? From what I'm seeing, the degree that the light beam bends seems to be absolutely minuscule, something that could easily be interpreted as human error in the part of the artist. The beam isn't making some drastic noticeable curve.

Also have to add this: The Jutsu being Storm Release doesn't say anything about it being light or not. Storm Release doesn't even have anything to do other actual storms (Except for Hiruko's Storm Release in that one movie, but that obviously doesn't count.) Also, as @MostPowerful just said, that would be like saying the rubber produced by Lava Release isn't real rubber because "It's made from Lava Release" or the quicklime produced by Kurotsuchi's Lava Release isn't real because "it's made from Lava Release" I don't really see how that's an argument.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Again, just the art. The beam does not bend. I can draw a lot of lines using some lasers and they will show the same thing: It is not symmetrically perfect. And it does not have to be

 

[Akreious]

So he used a ruler to depict movement lines, but failed to use said ruler when depicting a straight beam of light...?

 

[M3X_2.0]

I will start to say yes for those questions

 

[AstralKing7]

Pfff that's not a bend that the author would even have gotten considered to purposely have made.

This thread is hilarious and really shows who the knowledgeable members are. What had me was the fact that light fang isn't considered to be natural. It's always something man

 

[Sekusu]

Also have to add this: The Jutsu being Storm Release doesn't say anything about it being light or not. Storm Release doesn't even have anything to do other actual storms (Except for Hiruko's Storm Release in that one movie, but that obviously doesn't count.) Also, as @MostPowerful just said, that would be like saying the rubber produced by Lava Release isn't real rubber because "It's made from Lava Release" or the quicklime produced by Kurotsuchi's Lava Release isn't real because "it's made from Lava Release" I don't really see how that's an argument.

In fact,it does Light that bends and which is made of natural water+natural lightining isn't real light

 

[Akreious]

"The Jutsu being Storm Release doesn't say anything about it being light or not."

Storm Release, as it's nature, is the combination of the Elemental types Lightning and Water. This alone makes it incapable of being Light in-verse since Light Manipulation falls under Yin/Yang release.

"Storm Release doesn't even have anything to do other actual storms (Except for Hiruko's Storm Release in that one movie, but that obviously doesn't count.) "

Storm Release is Lightning + Water. AKA the components to make a storm, hence Storm Release.

" that would be like saying the rubber produced by Lava Releaseisn't real rubber because "It's made from Lava Release" or the quicklime produced by Kurotsuchi's Lava Release isn't real because "it's made from Lava Release" I don't really see how that's an argument."

Lava Release is the combination of Fire and Earth Release. So any result of Earthly substances with fire would be able to be reproduced as a Jutsu. So any material subjected to fire that turns into rubber would allow one to produce Rubber with Lava Release. This can range anywhere from Calcium Oxide based jutsus, Acidic Mud (Commonly found around active volcanoes), Vulcanized Rubber, and literally Volcanic Ash.

 

[AstralKing7]

Tmw every jutsu has aform of yin or yang in it naturally ƒñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å DB even shows this with some characters affinity sets. As well as the fact that storm release even has a jutsu called laser circus

 

[Jvando]

In fact,it does Light that bends and which is made of natural water+natural lightining isn't real light

The compositions of some of the Nature Transformation Kekkei Genkai don't always make sense and shouldn't always be compared to real life. Explosion release is a combination of Earth+Lightning and I'm not so sure that works in reality. Ice release is a combination of water+wind release which also doesn't work unless your talking about wind from the arctic in which case it's more the temperature that's freezing the water, not the wind. Magnet release is wind+earth...I don't make sense of that either.

Again, not really an argument.

 

[Akreious]

"Tmw every jutsu has aform of yin or yang in it naturally "

Doesn't mean they can use Ying/Yang release. Before you try to make a "Comeback", learn your own dang lore. Every molecule has electrons in them naturally, doesn't mean I can manipulate electrons if I manipulate molecules. Yin/Yang release is something people explicitly has to train to perform. So if a technique is called Storm Release, it's using Lightning and Water releases. Not Yin/Yang release which has it's own subset of jutsus.

"DB even shows this with some characters affinity sets."

This is naruto, not DB. Even then in the DB Games, only the mobile games have affinity. Xenoverse, the arguably more canon game, doesn't have it. It's simply a game mechanic for the more rock/papers/scissors feel.

"As well as the fact that storm release even has a jutsu called laser circus"

Just because you call something a certain name doesn't make it true unless you have evidence for it. If I call my 9mm Pistol the "RailGun", does that make my pistol as strong as a Rail Gun?

Plus your argument fails even harder when you realize that this Jutsu you brought up doesn't even resemble light. It's very clearly a Lightning technique enhanced with Water

Edit:

"Explosion release is a combination of Earth+Lightning and I'm not so sure that works in reality"

Lightning is pretty explosive both in verse and in real life. Apply it to a rock and you have an explosion from the force. I think that's the principle at least.

"Ice release is a combination of water+wind release which also doesn't work unless your talking about wind from the arctic in which case it's more the temperature that's freezing the water"

Fast moving winds are naturally cooler (I know this from experience. Fast moving winds even in hot climates are COLD), so fast moving winds + water would = ice. Eventually. Slowly. In a normal climate.

"Magnet release is wind+earth...I don't make sense of that either."

This is never actually confirmed and it's only suggested to be Wind+Earth. Longshot but it could possibly be that the Earth is the actual magnet and the wind symbolizes the Attractive/Repulsive forces I guess?

 

[M3X_2.0]

??? DB = Databook wtf

 

[Jvando]

So if a technique is called Storm Release, it's using Lightning and Water releases. Not Yin/Yang release which has it's own subset of jutsus.

And Madara's uses Lightning Release, Water Release, and Natural energy

 

[Akreious]

Ah that's what you meant.

That doesn't change my point at all though?

Characters very explicitly have natural affinities; Releases they naturally learn faster than others. You can learn other releases other than your affinity, but most don't. Also what do you mean? Some people's natural affinity is Yin/Yang release? Yeah I already explained that. Yin/Yang release has it's own jutsus that you can learn like any other release. You can have an affinity for it like how Naruto has an affinity for Wind or Kakashi with Lightning.

"And Madara's uses Lightning Release, Water Release, and Natural energy"

Still doesn't change my point. The technique is explicitly Storm Release and Sage Release Jutsu, not a Yin/Yang one.

The Multi-Size Technique is a good example of a Yang-Release Jutsu.

 

[Jvando]

Light Manipulation falls under Yin/Yang release.

I was curious as to where that was stated or implied. Do you have any links or scans for that? Also, it being formed from Natural Energy as well means that it has the properties of that element in nature. Since Light Fang is stated to be light in the DB and nothing really contradicts it (except for a curve so minuscule as to be inconsequential), then it is safe to assume it is light or at least mimics natural light.

 

[Akreious]

"I was curious as to where that was stated or implied. Do you have any links or scans for that?"

I'm going by it's name and definition more than anything else. The problem with links/scans for Light Manipulation is that it simply isn't a thing in Naruto (Light Manipulation on it's own I mean). I'm mostly going off of the fact that Shadow Techniques are Yin Releases, meaning they govern the imaginary and spiritual. Because Yin is capable of Shadow Release, it wouldn't be hard to expect it to also be able to produce Light Release. Not that anyone's tried it before though.

"Also, it being formed from Natural Energy as well means that it has the properties of that element in nature."

As far as I know, regular jutsus that replicate things that happen in nature already do this. Best example is actually something I brought up above:

Acidic Mud occurs around volcanoes. So, Lava Release is able to replicate such occurance since it's a result of said release's elements in nature. Arguably more potent as well.

So something being formed from natural energy doesn't really mean anything.

"Since Light Fang is stated to be light in the DB and nothing really contradicts it (except for a curve so minuscule as to be inconsequential), then it is safe to assume it is light or at least mimics natural light."

Storm Release also contradicts it. If it was legitimately just normal light then it shouldn't fall under any of the normal releases or combination of them. At least with others it's explanable as some events in nature results in said combination (albeit rarely such as the Rubber Techniques thing) but Lightning and Water does not produce pure light.

 

[Jvando]

Storm Release also contradicts it. If it was legitimately just normal light then it shouldn't fall under any of the normal releases or combination of them. At least with others it's explanable as some events in nature results in said combination (albeit rarely such as the Rubber Techniques thing) but Lightning and Water does not produce pure light.

That's not always true. A lot of Nature Transformation Kekkei Genkai don't make any sense when looking at their composite elements.

-Magnet Release = Earth + Wind -Ice Release = Water + Wind -Explosion Release = Earth + Lightning u -Dust Release = Earth + Wind + Fire

I don't really believe those are explainable, but hey, feel free to do so.

 

[AstralKing7]

Everyone and I mean everyone has yin or yang release. Every jutsu uses a form of yin or yang release which is what your not understanding.

Also in Naruto yin and yang mean many different things. They can also stand for mental and physical energy.