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Naruto High Tiers Revision Thread (formerly Killer Bee dura and AP upgrade)

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Actually, I was referring to Madara's Majestic Armor (Susanoo and Kurama). Kurama himself could still scale since he tanked Hashirama's Shinsuusenju. The issue is to determine the other characters who can scale from them.

So they could be upgraded to MHS+? I asked because I vaguely remember BSM Naruto reacting to Obito so I wanted ask if he could get at least MHS reaction speed.
 
I think someone should change the title to Naruto Mid Tiers Revision.

I believe these characters should scale to Bee's proposed AP change. And if not, they can scale to his durability since they should be able to hurt him. Base Hashirama, Prime Madara with Perfect Susanoo, BM Naruto (Hashirama compared his chakra to his own [however, I'm not sure if this was in BM or BSM], cut off the Juubi's tails [he had no pigmentation so it must have been Bijuu Mode]), Sasuke with Perfect Susanoo (should scale to Naruto), Third Raikage (cut off Gyuki's tails). I'm not sure who else for now. Probably BM Minato too. The Juubi is getting High 6-C too, right? Or should it be at least High 6-C?

These characters should be at least High 6-C:

SM Hashirama, Majestic Armor Madara, BSM Naruto, Sasuke with Perfect Susanoo and Jugo's senjutsu, DMS Kakashi (His Susanoo should be at least as strong as Sasuke's since he has Six Paths chakra). Prime Kurama should not be much weaker than BSM Naruto since he just has one half of him. Or maybe he can be just High 6-C. I can't think of anyone else for now. However, only Naruto's durability should remain at 6-B. I don't remember anyone else taking attacks from Juubito apart from the reincarnated shinobi.

When you say sure, do you mean they can be MHS+ or are you referring to Naruto's reaction speed? If you mean the MHS+ rating, all the god tiers like Hagoromo and the rest should get at least MHS+ since they should be far superior to BSM Naruto and the rest. Madara's mach 3277 feat was casual anyway.

Also, I have some concerns about Shippuden Kakashi's rating. He has Multi City Block level AP, but he killed one of Kakuzu's hearts and he has Town level durability. I know he's susceptible to lightning attacks but it would be like saying a Continent level attack that contains natural energy would kill Madara because he's susceptible to senjutsu. He also cancelled out Kakuzu's combination attack with his water jutsu and he was managing to trade blows with him. It also says on his page that he tore apart V2 Jinchüriki appendages. I think his AP should be Town level. As for his durability, I'm not sure why it's just City Block. His page said he withstood multiple assaults from Obito who is Town level. Remember his fight with Obito in their dimension. He defended from Obito's Katon and injured him. I think both his AP and durability should be Town level.

What do you guys think?
 
I believe these characters should scale to Bee's proposed AP change. And if not, they can scale to his durability since they should be able to hurt him.

Hurting isn't enough in this case. Bee was disfigured by the attack. A character needs to do similar damage to scale.

Base Hashirama, Prime Madara with Perfect Susanoo,

Prime Madara's durability is at that level, not his AP. He should stay as is.

BM Naruto (Hashirama compared his chakra to his own [however, I'm not sure if this was in BM or BSM],

Using the CT destruction feat leads to less assumptions.

Cut off the Juubi's tails [he had no pigmentation so it must have been Bijuu Mode])

Inconsistent to everything else shown and the forms are important to note so it's doubly unreliable.

The Juubi is getting High 6-C too, right? Or should it be at least High 6-C?

Depends on whether we decide to scale Edo Nagato's Chibaku Tensei to his regular AP, which would also upgrade Edo Madara.

Otherwise, just High 6-C.

DMS Kakashi (His Susanoo should be at least as strong as Sasuke's since he has Six Paths chakra)

Never happened.

When you say sure, do you mean they can be MHS+ or are you referring to Naruto's reaction speed? If you mean the MHS+ rating, all the god tiers like Hagoromo and the rest should get at least MHS+ since they should be far superior to BSM Naruto and the rest. Madara's mach 3277 feat was casual anyway.

I didn't notice about a comment pertaining to reaction speed.

Probably.

Also, I have some concerns about Shippuden Kakashi's rating. He has Multi City Block level AP, but he killed one of Kakuzu's hearts and he has Town level durability. I know he's susceptible to lightning attacks but…

I have no issues with that.
 
Edo nagato was stronger than deva path/six paths......naruto has straight away said that (Also I remember kabuto saying his edoes were stronger because he mixed hasirama's cells and shit,a little bit foggy there)

"I think someone should change the title to Naruto Mid Tiers Revision."

I think many characters needs revision to be honest,so I can make another post regarding this. But IF B gets upgraded some characters that I have in mind will get an upgrade

Raikage- Fought B till both of them passed out

Obito (Rinnegan) - Cutted off Gyuuki's tails

Raikage's son (?) - Has same defense that of his father
 
Gemmysaur said:
Adam of darkness said:
Same thing, Gyuuki's dura= Killer B's dura
Click to expand...
Wasn't it something like Bijuu-amped Jinchuuriki > Bijuu
Click to expand...
FOr AP,as they get a partner who can utilize bijuu's power pricisely.....Bijuus are shown to be pretty dumb without jinchurikis
 
Fighting someone is pretty irrelevant if they were overpowered and failed to do any worthwhile damage (or any damage at all.

Yes, and part 1 Sasuke has the same chidori technique, that doesn't make them comparable.
 
I thought that hurting someone with a certain level of durability means you have that level of AP too? Well, I did mention that they could scale to Bee's AP too. Hashirama is obviously superior to him. Madara can scale from him. I know that he's inferior to Hashirama but not to the level that his AP would remain 7-A. They have clashed several times especially during the Clan Wars. If Madara was indeed 7-A, his arms would have broken just from clashing against Hashirama which has not been shown or stated. They are near equals.

Even if we use the CT feat, BM Naruto should still be High 6-C. He's currently noted as being superior to Bee who's at least 7-A to his High 7-A. Him cutting the Juubi's tails should only serve as a further justification to his tier. If he remains High 7-A while Bee is upgraded, it would imply that Bee could casually one-shot him several times over. That sounds wrong. When the Bijuu created their Bijuudama, Bee looked on and didn't attempt to form one of his before Naruto interfered. I think Naruto should be High 6-C too. I don't think him cutting off the Juubi's tails is a case of inconsistency. If the Juubi was remaining at 6-B, I would agree but since it's being downgraded, it makes sense. A High 6-C character can still be superior to multiple ones. The one that should be inconsistent is Obito cutting off Gyuki's tails. It doesn't make sense since Obito prefers fighting evasively.


Well, I dunno. He might be able to force all his power to create a Shinra Tensei the same way he did for Chibaku Tensei.

Okay. I don't really understand what you mean here. Obito got Six Paths chakra from being the jinchüriki of the Juubi. He referred to himself as the Second Sage Of Six Paths. How does someone form TSBs without Six Paths chakra? Same for Madara. When he sealed the Juubi into himself, he should also have Six Paths chakra. I mean, he was the closest to Hagoromo himself. I'll check the wiki. I'm sure Kakashi received the remnants of Obito's Six Paths chakra.

Okay. If they get at least MHS+, I assume it would affect BSM Naruto from The Last and Toneri?

Cool.

Since you didn't address the point of Sage Mode Hashirama, Majestic Armor Madara and the rest that I mentioned being at least High 6-C, I assume it's alright? Note that it would scale to Madara with one Rinnegan and Hashirama's Sage Mode. I forgot about him earlier.

Though when did I mention anything about Sasuke's Chidori?
 
@Gemmysaur

Sorry. I messed up. I believe the revision is actually for the High Tiers. I just checked the Naruto page and they're noted as having Mountain to Island level power.
 
I thought that hurting someone with a certain level of durability means you have that level of AP too?

It's a case by case basis.

Even if we use the CT feat, BM Naruto should still be High 6-C.

I already stated that.

Him cutting the Juubi's tails should only serve as a further justification to his tier.

Outliers are not proper justifications. A far weaker form trounced that same mode, plain and simple, simultaneously with B at that.

If he remains High 7-A while Bee is upgraded, it would imply that Bee could casually one-shot him several times over. That sounds wrong.

Did you not suggest KCM Naruto supplied some of the energy too? Then why did you come to this conclusion? I never said he'd remain High 7 A.


I don't think him cutting off the Juubi's tails is a case of inconsistency. If the Juubi was remaining at 6-B, I would agree but since it's being downgraded, it makes sense.

The range of the AP has nothing to do with it. Earlier they were clearly depicted as being far inferior.

A High 6-C character can still be superior to multiple ones. The one that should be inconsistent is Obito cutting off Gyuki's tails. It doesn't make sense since Obito prefers fighting evasively.

I don't know anything about Obito removing his tails, so I can't say.


Well, I dunno. He might be able to force all his power to create a Shinra Tensei the same way he did for Chibaku Tensei.

Edo Nagato didn't force anything hence why it's being considered. For Six paths of Pain the differences in performing the jutsu is obvious.

Okay. I don't really understand what you mean here. Obito got Six Paths chakra from being the jinchüriki of the Juubi. He referred to himself as the Second Sage Of Six Paths. How does someone form TSBs without Six Paths chakra? Same for Madara. When he sealed the Juubi into himself, he should also have Six Paths chakra. I mean, he was the closest to Hagoromo himself. I'll check the wiki. I'm sure Kakashi received the remnants of Obito's Six Paths chakra.

The alliance removed the chakra of the Juubi and the Ten Tails body was a tree. What remnants? I see no reason to suspect he has it when he no longer has the The Ten Tails within him, and can Kamui like normal.

Since you didn't address the point of Sage Mode Hashirama, Majestic Armor Madara and the rest that I mentioned being at least High 6-C, I assume it's alright? Note that it would scale to Madara with one Rinnegan and Hashirama's Sage Mode. I forgot about him earlier.

I have no problem with that.

Though when did I mention anything about Sasuke's Chidori?

This was aimed at Adam.
 
Okay.

Sorry. I must have misunderstood you.

Hmm. Well, Neji just died so he may have been charged up or something. Something like the nakama stuff from Fairy Tail. Guess it can be regarded as an outlier then.

See my second point.

Okay.

I also don't remember Obito cutting off the Hachibi's tails. It must have been with his Wood Release. I think it should be regarded as an outlier. Else, it would scale to Kakashi and other S-Rank ninja like Kakuzu and create too much inconsistencies and problems.

Okay. But when I said force, I meant gathering most of his chakra like he did before destroying Konoha.

This is what the Naruto Wiki says:

Sasuke Uchiha uses Six Paths Power (Õà¡ÚüôÒü«Õèø, Rikudō no Chikara) against Madara's shadow, and Kakashi Hatake briefly receives some from Obito Uchiha's spirit. When both of them use it, their Lightning Release chakra changes colour.

I think it makes sense. The colour of Kakashi's Raikiri wouldn't have changed colour otherwise and he seemed comfortable using Kamui. He only collapsed after the chakra and both Sharingan left him. I might read the manga tomorrow to see if I can get something. But since Perfect Susanoo Sasuke would scale from Naruto, Kakashi's Susanoo should also scale from his so he would be High 6-C too. Does it make sense?

Okay.
 
@TMR Do you need any profiles temporarily unlocked, in order to adjust them?
 
1) Hachibi was stated "2nd strongest" by Kurama, simply due to him having one less tail than him. Where's a legit statement that proves that he is 2nd to Kurama? Even if it's the case, the gap between #1 and 2 can vary to insane degrees... (Irene vs Teresa from Claymore, for example)

2) The "Large Island" comes from the PE of the CT... If we look at Pain's for example, 3.833e12m^3 is the volume... that would require 2.64477e+20 joules, or 63 Gigatons of tnt to destroy, which is Island level+

Nagato's Chibaku tensei was incomplete by the time the three characters destroyed them.

You can't go like "Oh, Rasenshurikan and Itachi are Town level... so let's just CALC STACK and assume that's the same case here... even though Itachi is Edo, and Naruto is using his incomplete beast mode"

Take a look. it is much smaller than Pain's at this point. It would not take even close to the amount of energy to blast that one apart.

All they did was send an explosion directly to the core before the CT could come close to completio. This is enough to say that destroying Nagato's CT is not even close to "Large Island level", and there is not a way for us to accurately find the AP of such an explosion.

3) I disagree with the rest of the post, as it is a follow-up to the above listed.

Spamming 4 of his TBB does not qualify for a single attack. They are each considered a single attack. If you blast someone with a city level attack back to back, they would be taking city level damage... not mountain level (or... the small country... wherever that comes from...)

Dwarfing Kurama isn't small country level...
 
I agree with Cin. Also Gyuki even said that Kurama ranks the tailed beasts by number of tails, but even then Kurama took on like six tailed beasts by himself (with Naruto of course). The tailed beast scaling doesn't work like that. It's kinda all over the place.
 
Also I am very positive that the number of tails only means the beast has greater/more chakra than the lower tailed ones. Even Kisame was stated to have chakra on par with that of a tailed beast. But yeah, Cin pretty much already covered the rest of my points.
 
Dunno about the CT stuff. Kurama should be stronger than Gyuki. I already mentioned something about when the Bijuu were charging their attacks. Bee looked on while Naruto dealt with their Bijuudama with his own. Since he could do that with half of Kurama's power, shouldn't that mean Kurama > Gyuki. Also, the Juubi had ten tails and it was smacking them around. I believe it could do the same to Prime Kurama.

I believe they might also be able to scale to Bee's durability but I'm not sure since TheMightyRegulator disagreed. But this is what the Attack Potency page says:

A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces.

For example, the Juubi's Tenpenchii messed Naruto up pretty bad but if Sasuke pierced Naruto with Chidori or Kusanagi, it wouldn't cause as much damage but would still scale to his AP. After all, it's still damage.

What do you guys think? Does it make sense?
 
@Burning

Juubi, even in its larval state, has Island AP and Dura without its TBB. If we were to assume it being in the middle of Island level tier, it would already be more than 10 times stronger than Kurama with Yin and Yang.

Bee being hit by his own TBB makes his durability scale to his AP, which is already does.

I think Regulator is against having a High 6-C or Low 6-B AP for Bee, and I agree due to how ridiculous the assumption of him blowing up a fully developed CT, when it was not even close to its full size (Again, blowing up Pain's fully developed CT is Island level). It was probably not even 100 meters in diameter by the time the three attacks hit it (i provided a scan in the previous reply). The end result would probably be Small Island level, making Bee remain Mountain level~Mountain+ via scaling, even if we assume he dealt more than half of the DC.

Nothing has really changed at this point. The only arguments that I am against are the wanked "Destroying the CT is Large Island... and dwarfing Kurama with a TBB is small country"... that doesn't make a lick of sense and it is massive wank.

You are bringing points that we already mostly agree on, but mixed in with the other statements in this post, I think that's what having people disagree with you.
 
I will also liked to add a fact that should be well known at this point is that Kurama was not complete until later on post Fourth Shinobi War as due to the Yang and Yin half were spilt in half when Minato was doing the sealing inside baby Naruto.
 
@Star - Of course, but even if Bee is the 2nd strongest, it has been made quite evident that Kurama is in his own league, as he countered several beast bombs on his own, while Bee had previously been shown struggling to fight the beasts, and was gradually losing ground.

Kurama is much stronger than any of the other beasts.

I'm not sure if I see your point, but I'm just adding on to what has been made apparent in the manga.
 
In any case, my point is if we doing the scaling here which it will be the Tailed Beasts to some extent, we are comparing the yang half of Kurama to the five Tailed Beast he fought and defeated along with Naruto.
 
@CinCameron

Actually, if you go through the thread, you'll see that I didn't agree with Bee's AP upgrade at first because it was being assumed that Naruto's Rasenshuriken was Town level (someone that's at least Large Town level and likely higher) but Regulator said even if we assume that they produced an equal amount of energy, it would still be Large Island level. That's why I dropped my case. What I'm suggesting now is that they could be able to scale from Bee's durability since they can injure him. I don't know if what you said about the Chibaku Tensei destruction feat is true or not.

He tanked both his and the Juubi's Bijuudama. This is what I'm arguing that they should scale from if the CT feat isn't legitimate.

Do you agree for MHS+ for them? And also Kakashi's upgrade?

Also, hasn't Regulator mentioned that Bee's Bijuudama dwarfing Kurama is unquantifiable or something?
 
The chibaku tensei that was being made by Nagato was much much smaller than Pain's fully developed one. And destroying it would only require Island level AP.

Nagato's CT was still in the process of being made, and you can tell how much smaller it is to Pain's right as the explosion is about to happen, as the rasenshurikan is on the panel, and all of Naruto's rasengan orbs (save for a Oodama rasengan) are considerably smaller than Naruto himself.

The energy to destroy that Chibaku Tensei would be pitiful. Hell, if we assume the radius to be 100 meters (which I actually doubt), VFing the CT would only require 2.8902652e+14 Joules, which is Town level+.

If you mean from when B blasted the Juubi's own TBB into its stomach, Bee hardly took any punishment from that. It would not have reached him.

remind me what is making them MHS+, please. it is a relatively long thread.
 
I'm not making any case about them scaling from the CT destruction feat.

I've forgotten where this happened. But he was shaking (or something) in pain.

Mach 380 likely over Mach 1000 for some characters now that I think about it (KCM Naruto can be scaled to Rasenshuriken speeds), God tiers are over Mach 3000 to Nigh-sub relativistic (why was this removed?).

Though let's wait for Regulator.
 
CinCameron20 said:
The chibaku tensei that was being made by Nagato was much much smaller than Pain's fully developed one.
Click to expand...
Already discussed. It's argued the core that would have that AP, the mass obviously wouldn't.

and all of Naruto's rasengan orbs (save for a Oodama rasengan) are considerably smaller than Naruto himself.

Size does not matter to AP.

If you mean from when B blasted the Juubi's own TBB into its stomach, Bee hardly took any punishment from that. It would not have reached him.

Him becoming disfigured and being sent flying back clearly shows he was caught in the blast radius which is not surprising, considering it was shown the blast radius is comparable to several mountain ranges.

remind me what is making them MHS+, please. it is a relatively long thread.

Scaling KCM Naruto to rasenshuriken speed calced along with Pain's CT feat.
 
@Regulator

Oh, I see now

But about the MHS+ portion, doesn't that feat, if scaled to others, just make them MHS in speed?
 
@Burning - the feat is MHS, so no one would scale to MHS+ from that. and you could dodge a MHS+ attack and still be HHS, for example.

@Regulator - So what does this mean for the tailed beasts and others? What are they going to scale to, in terms of tier?
 
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