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Mythology Feats and Cosmology

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Malomtek said:
In fact, let's compromise.
Every ability or attack potency level implied by a specific title gets added in with the caveat of "possibly" before it. If a god is given the title "the World-Destroyer" and "the Bringer of Storms", then (assuming that such titles aren't explicitly backed up in the mythologies proper) he should be put as "possibly at least 5-B" and given "possible Weather Manipulation".
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Well, the problem is the vagueness in which theology uses these titles, often they don't show or even have the Gods fight, and if they do they're usually via proxy or some other way of winning like with a contest (See Poseidon vs Athena).


And then, as shown with The Greek profiles, they're Solar system level in power, far above things like Sky and Sea's High 6-A.

And with the "destroyer of worlds", it's the same thing with Doomnomitron from Rick and Morty, it's just a title with nothing to back it up.


As well, it's not me who you would need to compromise with.
 
Well, if it's stated they transcend the concepts of time and space, it would go without saying they're 1-A.
 
@Uld

What do you mean "vagueness"? The theological titles are often explain in the theologies themselves, if not in the mythologies proper. You don't need gods to fight to "show off" a title. It could be some general or bit feat, even.

The Greek Gods were universal, last I checked.

Ancient cultures took the titles and epithets of their gods very seriously. Gods don't get epithets if they didn't mean anything. In an ancient culture, when someone is referred to as "the destroyer of worlds", they really do mean that he's the destroyer of worlds.
 
I will have to unsubscribe to this thread due to time constraints. You can send me a message later if you need my help.
 
Malomtek said:
A lot of our mythology pages are unsourced, low-information garbage, a prime example being this one:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Norns_(Mythology)

"It should be noted that as the worlds share a sun, they should be considered different parts of a solar system, and not different universes."

What is the source for this? And even if it was true, what is to stop people from arguing that the sun was simply bigger in Norse mythology, like in all mythologies where sun worship and sun gods were prominent?
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Dear Malomtek,


The reason that no source is present for this piece of "information" is because none exists. Having scoured through the relevant source material in several different translations, the only verification I could find was a single line in one modern Icelandic translation of the Gylfaginning: "├¥eirar er go├░in höf├░u skapat til at l├¢sa ''heimana'' af ├¥eiri s├¡u"; (heimana being the definitive plural of heimur, meaning world, and thus meaning "the worlds"). However, there are also contradictory statements in other translations and variants; most iterations of this specific line instead reads that the purpose of Sól is to light up "the sky" (in definitive singular, in context clearly referring to the sky of Midgardr), and this seems to be the generally accepted variant today. Aside from that, the only implication that multiple worlds share a single sun is the fact that Sól is known in six of the Nine Realms (Alv├¡ssm├íl, stanza 16), but this should come as no surprise, as it is a goddess.


However, even if Sól does travel between different worlds (an idea that remains debated among Norse scholars), this is still no reason for the current rating, as she is not a star but an ├üsynja; stars much larger than our sun are consistently depicted as the size of toes or eyeballs in comparison to the bodies of the Æsir and ├üsynjur, indicating that the worlds inhabited by such beings are much, much larger than ours; definitely in the multiple solar system class. It should also be said that nearly all contemporary Norse practitioners, myself included, do consider the Nine Realms to be different universes or planes of existence, though I understand if such modern suppositions will be ignored in favor of historical texts.


As for fixing the woeful state of the Norse profiles on this wiki, consider it done. I am afraid that my time is still limited, and that I am technically still on hiatus from my Internet activities due to work, but I will do my best to improve the profiles as swiftly as possible (a major rework of Odin is nearly done already). If anyone on this wiki has any questions about the Norse faith or would like a revision of suggested changes, please call upon me; I have a degree in Norse studies and fluent knowledge of the language, as well as access to the original texts, so my credentials are ― and do forgive my apparent arrogance ― probably the best you'll find on this site.
 
Malomtek said:
I will probably have to write some mythology explanations myself, and revise some profiles.
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That would be most appreciated, by me and this entire community. Most mythological and religious profiles are woefully inadequate as of now. I only ask that you kindly leave the Norse profiles to me, or at least keep me informed of any edits you plan on making; I'm currently in the process of making a major overhaul of several such profiles (more than doubling some in size), and I would hate for my work to go to waste.
 
So I just got to work on the Jade Emperor's profile. I will finish revising it when I get done with the explanations for Chinese mythological cosmology.
 
I'll deal with the Polynesian stuff as I said earlier. Maui, our only current Polynesian profile, will probably have to become a composite at this rate with the sheer amount of stuff there is about the character
 
Malomtek said:
So I just got to work on the Jade Emperor's profile. I will finish revising it when I get done with the explanations for Chinese mythological cosmology.
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The Jade Emperor spans across multiple continuities, Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism.

He's a lot higher than High 3-A, Heaven exists beyond Wuji, it's where it all started.
 
@Uld

Do you have a source for Heaven existing beyond even the Wuji? From what I've read, Wuji is ultimately the source of Heaven, as portrayed in apposition to Earth.
 
Malomtek said:
@Uld
Do you have a source for Heaven existing beyond even the Wuji? From what I've read, Wuji is ultimately the source of Heaven, as portrayed in apposition to Earth.
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"The operation of Heaven above has neither sound nor smell,"3 and yet it is the pivot (shu-niu) of the actual process of creation and the basis of the classification of things. Thus it says, "Non-polar and yet Supreme Polarity!" It is not that there is non-polarity outside of the Supreme Polarity."

https://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Writings/TJTS-Zhu.pdf
 
Honestly that sounds more like the Confucian conception of Heaven, which shouldn't be equated to the Jade Emperor himself. It being a "draft translation" only made to get commentary on it also makes it a bit unreliable in my eyes.

However, if this is accurate, it does mean that the Confucian Heaven is far above even Low 2-C.
 
Malomtek said:
Honestly that sounds more like the Confucian conception of Heaven, which shouldn't be equated to the Jade Emperor himself. It being a "draft translation" only made to get commentary on it also makes it a bit unreliable in my eyes.
However, if this is accurate, it does mean that the Confucian Heaven is far above even Low 2-C.
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Chinese tradition treats all as cannon, with even the Buddha showing up in Taoism and such.

Also, Confucius has little to do with Taoism, Lou Zhu has to do with Taoism.
 
@Uld

My issue is equating this obviously Confucian-influenced notion of Heaven with the Jade Emperor himself. But if they are meant to be equal, then it's all okay with me.
 
Just a heads up. I will be getting to work on the Greek mythology profiles, especially for Dionysus.
 
You should make a CRT before you start that. And preferably a blog/sandbox with the remade profiles.
 
Only the two groups of Abrahamic and Indian religions are not allowed, everything else is ok. Though not sure about the status of the Iranian religions on here.
 
I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
I support these revisions, I think some of the creator dieties can be considered 1-A.

Also, Since Sun Wukong is partially tied to buddhist elements, why can't we add buddhist characters like the Buddha for the VS wiki, Buddhism isn't as controversial to discuss like the abrahamic religions.

In my opinion, buddhist characters should be added to this wiki because there will most likely be no controversy
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Journey to the West version Buddiha is not the same to the Religious texts version Buddiha. As far as I know, JttW version Buddiha is weaker than Religious texts version Buddiha. The former is often considered as the enhanced version of politicians by Chinese. (Power is power)
 
Crzer07 said:
Only the two groups of Abrahamic and Indian religions are not allowed, everything else is ok.
Click to expand...
Not entirely true. We moreso ban religions that are still actively practiced to this day (by some substantial group of people).

For example, we wouldn't allow Mormon and Scientology profiles either.
 
They said "two groups of Abrahamic faith", I thought they were referring to Judaism/Christianity and Islam.

My bad if I read that wrong.
 
Malomtek said:
@Uld
My issue is equating this obviously Confucian-influenced notion of Heaven with the Jade Emperor himself. But if they are meant to be equal, then it's all okay with me.
Click to expand...
Not Confucius, it's Lau Tzu, as he was the one who made Taoism, or at least came up with the idea.
 
Yes. Let's drop this issue immediately, and focus on the revisions themselves instead.
 
People wanted to add profiles from the Quran, and things deteriorated from there onwards.

We should focus on improving the current profiles instead.
 
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