My Little Pony Movie

[Lightbuster30]

"It goes against everything we've been shown."

What does and how?

"After all, who was moving the sun before they came along?"

First of all, that would be Fridge Logic, not anything to say it's a downgrade.

Second, it was stated in The Journal of the Two Sisters that a group of unicorns would do it, at the cost of permanently losing all of their magical energy.

"And since Star Swirl is becming canon, so far everything has shown that he was their mentor (in the now canon comics). We even have Sombra and Chrysalis taking them on."

This is relevant how?

"I refuse to believe what Twilight said on the grounds that it goes against feats shown in the show, basic logic, and Twilight being superior to Celestia's own mentor."

Being someone's mentor =/= being stronger than them.

Besides, we're downgrading Twilight. What are you even talking about?

"If anything it sounds like the writers goofing up."

I reiterate, what does?

You're just spouting a bunch of nonsense.

He is suggesting we downgrsde Twilight based on her claiming she can't move the Sun without their magic. Even though a group of 10 unicorns could do it (it doesn't matter that they lost their magic, they still did it). Despite Starswirl did it (amd kept his magic, even if drained), and none of them had Celestia and Luna's "special magic".

 

[Js250476]

Couldn't that just means those particular unicorns were very strong?

 

[The_Everlasting]

We know nothing about those unicorns.

If Twilight expressly says she can't move celestial bodies, then she can't.

 

[Js250476]

Plus they were apart of Starswirl and Clover's team so I doubt they were just average unicorns

 

[Lightbuster30]

We know nothing about those unicorns.

If Twilight expressly says she can't move celestial bodies, then she can't.

No she says she can't due to lacking their specific magic. Which is contradictory to what the lore tells us. The fact is these unicorns, and even Starswirl don't need whatever magic the princesses have like Twilight says. Therefore her statement should be treated as outlier.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I would like to point out that in Twilights Kingdom it is mentioned that with Alicorn magic Tirek could control celestial bodies. It doesn't mention a specific alicorn magic, just alicorn magic in general.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

-snip-

Almost exactly my thoughts on it.

I don't really have an opinion on alicorn Twilights tiering, but I did think instantly scaling her to 4-C was a bit much.

I'll rewatch the Storm king scenes to see if he moved the sun at non-FTL speeds at any given point.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Dark

What do you think was your favorite song from the movie?

 

[Js250476]

My favorite is Open up your eyes personally

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

"We Got This Together" was my favorite, at least in terms of animation matching visuals.

I thought some of the songs we're kind of corny, but mostly enjoyable.

 

[Js250476]

Who do you guys think was the best guest star? Personally I think Emily blunt was great as Tempest and ditto for Liev schreiber as Storm King

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Dark

I'm obsessed with "The Friend That You Need". I don't know what it is about it, but it's just so catchy.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Who do you guys think was the best guest star? Personally I think Emily blunt was great as Tempest and ditto for Liev schreiber as Storm King

Both were great in different ways. Tempest was a very conniving and dark villain, while Storm King was hilarious, but still threatening and intimidating.

I was honestly shocked when they straight up killed Storm King. That, and Tempest getting mauled by an Ursa Minor were moments I was not expecting in a pony movie.

 

[Js250476]

Hope you find a non Ftl sun moving in the Movie Mlp upgrades are always nice

 

[Antvasima]

I was more surprised that there would basically be slave markets and the risk of being eaten by other sentients in a pony movie. Killing the Storm King does have a precedent with King Sombra (then again, I think that the season finale is called "Shadow Play", so maybe he will return).

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Not the first time Slavery appeared in MLP. Look at King Sombra.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Ant

"Shadow Play" is focusing on the Pony of Shadows from Castle Mane-ia, actually.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Not the first time Slavery appeared in MLP. Look at King Sombra.

And Trixie, when she ruled Ponyville with the Alicorns Alument and forced everyone, even the foals to do her bidding. The comics also had King Anubis, who enslaved Ponies and Cats and was violently oppressive to them.

Hell this isn't the first time straight up murder has been a thing. Queen Chrysalis killed a crap load of kitten-bunnies in The Return of Queen Chrysalis, and even splattered one in front of the CMC to scare them.

Edit: Also, I loved the Pulp Fiction reference in the beginning.

 

[Antvasima]

Pulp Fiction reference?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

One of the body guards was designed like Jules winnfield and his Cutie Mark was a wallet, which is probably a reference to this scene (slightly NSFW; bad language).

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Just saw the movie, again (friend wanted to go see it). I noticed that while base Storm King didn't actually make a storm, he did create a massive amount of storm clouds around Canterlot that spread well beyond it. Twilight sees what's happened to Canterlot at the end of "Open Up Your Eyes". Don't know if it's calc worthy, or will even result in higher than the "At least High 7-C" he'd already get, but it's there.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Well, theirs also this from the prequel comics. It's never explicitly stated that he created the storm, but the night was calm before the invasion. Take from that what you will.

Oh and he has 4th Wall Awareness apparently.

If there's anything else notable from the prequel, I'll post them.

Bit feat: The pirates reacted to a bolt of lightning

Another possible feat in issue 2: While the pirates are taking in the Cats, they're surronded by complete darkness, which turns out to be the Storm King's storm. He also overpowered the captain with just one arm, who was depicted as being as strong as Dash in the movie.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Nice. Though I don't know if we can apply them to the movie profile, since I don't know if the prequel comics are canon. There's some contradictory stuff, such as Capper's official backstory being he was a rich aristocrat before the Storm King took over, while the comic portrays him as an orphan(?).

I know there's a prequel book about Tempest, which MIGHT be canon to the movie, but I can't find solid info, yet.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Well, that's unfortunate.

AFAIK, the book is just a short prequel that's about her trip to invade Canterlot, so I'm not sure if that'll have any feats.

Edit: Ignore that last bit, I was wrong.

 

[Pikachu942]

Didn't we get some calcs that put most relevant ponies at low 7-B and people like Rainbow Dash in the 7-A now? I dunno when they got moved to High 7-C but I'm pretty sure it's higher in the Tier 7 area at this point.

I also disagree with downgrading Twilight/Cadance, it seems like the statement is an outlier that contradicts everything thus far in the lore. It is also potentially likely that Twilight is just not skilled enough to properly raise both the sun and moon to the exact angles she wanted in her diagram.

Also, the movie was fantastic, saw it with my girlfriend and it's easily the best movie I've seen this year, the animation was GORGEOUS.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Rarity was calced at Low 7-B. It hasn't been evaluated yet though.

I disagreed with the Rainbow Dash downgrade too, but meh. Now they're scaled to Maud's feat (100~ Kilotons) and an earthquake feat from Season 1.

Cadance defiantly stays at 4-C. Although now that I think about it, if Twilight was so astronomically weaker then the others, why would her power be at all relevant to the Staff of Storms?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I also disagree with downgrading Twilight/Cadance, it seems like the statement is an outlier that contradicts everything thus far in the lore.

Who said we're downgrading Cadance? At the very least, she seems to be viewed in a similar light to Tia and Luna, even if her rating is a bit more unsure.

Twilight on the other hand has absolutely nothing to support being as strong as Tia and Luna. She lacks feats, statements, or even implications of being their equal in terms of raw power, and the only time she performed a similar feat was when she had their magic.

On the other hand, we have Twilight saying she can't do this on her own, which is pretty blatant. Especially since "I don't have your magic" suggests she lacks the...well, magic, and not the skill to position them. She also says this as a response to Luna asking if she really wants them to move the sun and moon just for a party, to which Twilight responds she can't do it herself for that exact reason.

Her justification for being 4-C right now is quite literally just "She's an Alicorn".

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Although now that I think about it, if Twilight was so astronomically weaker then the others, why would her power be at all relevant to the Staff of Storms?

Tempest directly states all four of them are needed for the staff to absorb the power. It has nothing to do with Twilight's strength.

Edit: Found it. Tempest says this exact line:

"I need all four of them for the staff to work!"

This is immediately after she says the staff's ability is to "channel the power of the four rulers of this land". It has nothing to do with just draining power from random characters, regardless of their strength.

 

[Pikachu942]

I don't see how you can say she's that far off from the others' in power when the Alicorns are usually grouped together in a tier that far exceeds every other pony. It is quite clear the Alicorns are all immensely powerful, all 5 of them currently.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I don't see how you can say she's that far off from the others' in power when the Alicorns are usually grouped together in a tier that far exceeds every other pony. It is quite clear the Alicorns are all immensely powerful, all 5 of them currently.

None of this suggests Twilight = Celestia or Luna. It just suggests she's an Alicorn, and thus very powerful.

Even that, in itself, is meaningless, since Starlight is superior to Twilight, and she's just a gifted unicorn.

 

[Pikachu942]

Starlight is constantly referred as a special case, an exception on the level of Star Swirl and should not be used as an argument against Twilight being powerful. I do agree that Celestia and Luna are probably stronger than Twilight, just based on their appearance and experience alone, but I see no possible way to say that she isn't at least within the same tier as them, let alone not even in Tier 5.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"Starlight is constantly referred as a special case"

Yes. This itself is proof that being an Alicorn alone is not some kind of magic Tier 4 feat. A prodigal unicorn > an untrained Alicorn.

Then we have the fact Twilight lacks any feats on the level of Tia and Luna, and is constantly inhibited by less.

Then there's the fact that the rest of the Mane 6 are actually relevant, because she's clearly not astronomically beyond them in power. The most powerful to be sure, be she's far from a god compared to them.

Of course, on top of this, we now have Twilight herself saying she can't perform the things Tia and Luna do.

None of this points to Tier 4 base Twilight, at least not until she actually realizes some of her potential and does something.

 

[Pikachu942]

Then downgrade Cadance too, she has absolutely no feats that put her on a similar tier of Celestia and Luna either.

Seriously though, I really don't see how you can come to the conclusion that Alicorns can be so vastly different in power that Twilight could not even be Tier 5, when she definitely is at least comparable in strength, considering "Alicorn Magic" is a nebulous term used to refer to all 4 Alicorns and how much more powerful they are than everypony.

 

[Jinx666]

Spoilers:

Twilight and the Mane 6 are in the movie.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"Then downgrade Cadance too, she has absolutely no feats that put her on a similar tier of Celestia and Luna either. "

She should really only be or "likely/possibly 4-C", to be honest. Though she did put up a force field that temporarily shielded her from those petrification bombs, which is more than can be said for Tia and Luna.

"Seriously though, I really don't see how you can come to the conclusion that Alicorns can be so vastly different in power that Twilight could not even be Tier 5"

So should all unicorns backwards scale to Starlight? She's a special case, but she's still a unicorn, after all. Should all pegasi scale to Rainbow Dash? No. If there's nothing suggesting they should, then they shouldn't. If Twilight herself, on top of having no statements or feats to scale, pretty much flat out says she doesn't currently scale, then that's it. She doesn't.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Spoilers:
Twilight and the Mane 6 are in the movie.

Fake news.

The whole film is about Spike.

 

[Pikachu942]

I don't see why Cadance gets a possibly 4-C but Twilight doesn't get a possibly 4-C. IMO both should be getting the same ranking regardless.

No but Alicorn Magic is so vastly above any other magic that I feel like giving her an "At least Tier 7" is highly, HIGHLY disingenuous and really not accurate. A Possibly/Likely 4-C I feel is the best ranking you could give to Twilight.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"I don't see why Cadance gets a possibly 4-C but Twilight doesn't get a possibly 4-C. IMO both should be getting the same ranking regardless."

Cadance briefy defended against something that one-shot paniced Celestia and Luna. She also managed to defend the empire against Sombra, for a while. That's above anything Twilight's done, already.

"No but Alicorn Magic is so vastly above any other magic that I feel like giving her an "At least Tier 7" is highly, HIGHLY disingenuous and really not accurate."

No. Twilight has nothing to compare her to Tia and Luna other than being an Alicorn. Twilight has been an Alicorn for an absurdly short period of time compared to the other three. Twilight herself has flat out said she would move the sun and the moon for the party, but can't. Ignoring all of this and saying she's 4-C "because Alicorn" is leagues more disingenuous, as it is based on absolutely nothing and writes off what we have explicitly been told.

 

[Pikachu942]

Please don't just say "No", thank you. Anyways, no matter how you slice it, I still think a possibly 4-C is warranted based on the fact she possesses Alicorn magic, which again is shown to be vastly above everything else in the universe by quite a margin.

Also, as Tirek would say, "It appears we are at an impasse."