My Little Pony FiM Revision Thread (Warning: Season 9 Spoilers) [Part 2]

[Lightbuster30]

Twilight literally says they were nothing more than symbols. The countless times the Magic of Friendship has been used without them proves her entirely right.

And it's not necessarily superior, just more varied.
Which again, is something you are entirely unable to prove.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Twilight literally says they were nothing more than symbols. The countless times the Magic of Friendship has been used without them proves her entirely right.


And it's not necessarily superior, just more varied.

Which again, is something you are entirely unable to prove.
Thats also a bad argument considering Tirek had very limited control over Discord's magic in so far as reality warping is concerned. The MoF has no such limitations.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Whatever you say. I can't disprove you.

When she said that, she meant that the magic of friendship can be used on their own. She didn't specify that they have the exact same capabilities.

Think of it this way. We've seen the elements being able to do a large amount of different kinds of magic, from blasting, to transforming, to reforming, to pulling, to summoning, etc., while we've only seen the magic of friendship from the ponies' bodies functioning as a single blast or explosion that fixes the world.

 

[Lightbuster30]

When she said that, she meant that the magic of friendship can be used on their own. She didn't specify that they have the exact same capabilities.

Think of it this way. We've seen the elements being able to do a large amount of different kinds of magic, from blasting, to transforming, to reforming, to pulling, to summoning, etc., while we've only seen the magic of friendship from the ponies' bodies functioning as a single blast or explosion that fixes the world.

Um, no, she means the Elements are only symbols. Because true friendship doesn't need symbols to actually mean something.

From the body MoF has transported Tirek to Tartaurus, drained his stolen magic and returned it, is strongly implied by the writers and Luna to purify evil, summoning, undid undid Sombra's mind control, and many more. But yeah sure "all" they can do is blast. Thats clearly the only thing it can do and none of the above actually happened. I reiterate: Provide solid evidence that isn't pure speculatiuon or I'm not inclined to believe you. There is nothing I've seen that isn't pure speculation and stuff that straight up isn't true.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah, just ignore all that stuff I said about the magic of friendship on its own just being a mcguffin fix everything. Also, when did the MOF ever summon someone?

It's also pure speculation that RP is the same as the elements. Why would it be a different ability if it was practically the same?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Except for the fact that, ya know, it's not a mcguffin? At best the Elements are portable versions of the MoF as they only channel it's power. You however have no evidence that they are more varied in powerset than the actual thing as a result of being able to channel it. Only speculation. On your summoning question: They summon an alicorn spirit. No Elements of Harmony, just channeling the Magic of Friendship via music.

My speculation is based on implications of the damned show. Based on implications from the writers and Luna. Based on statements from Twilight about the Rainbow Power being the same damned thing. My speculation notices how the Rainbow Power was attained with keys pertaining to each specific bearer and draws reasonable connections based on what we see in the show. Twilight outright calls herself and the rest of the Mane 6 the spirits of the Elements, implying that even without the physical Elements they can still use their power. And thats the key thing: The Elements. Power. The power of the magic of friendship and the power of the Elements of Harmony are heavily heavily implied to be one and the same. Seriously, you'd have to be literally blind to not see how hard the show is pushing for it.

Meanwhile what does the opposition come up with? Mostly that "The Elements seem far more varied than the MoF which can only fire lasers." and thats about it. A statement that isn't even true. Or how about "They can channel it better than the ponies and are thus more varied?" Which again has absolutely nothing supporting it.

How many times do I have to repeat myself that we don't need to have our hands held for this sort of thing? Why the hell do people have to nitpick the everloving shit out of things that don't even deserve it?

 

[Lightbuster30]

I didn't say he got knocked down by his own shield. I'm saying that the blast pushed him backwards strongly enough to throw him backwards fast enough to take him off his legs momentarily. That doesn't necessarily mean his shield got destroyed, considering the explosion, probably the strongest part of the attack, didn't scratch him an iota. There's simply not enough proof to solidly argue either way though.

...I literally just explained why this would not work. At no point does Tirek change position inside his shield. His pose remains exactly the same for the entirety he has the shield on. He's moving with the shield. If the beam has hit him that hard, he would have gotten pushed backwards the second the beam made contact with his shield, the kinetic energy would have rippled through it and into Tirek and shunted him backwards. But that didn't happen. Tirek doesn't budge a single centimeter from his position or even have his body shake from the force. All we see is the shield getting pushed backwards.

...Or maybe the explosion didn't hurt him because it was in the background? Except there is proof to argue it my way.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Wasn't it you who said it was fallacious to use author intent as an argument?

Anyways, I'm tired arguing about this. I don't even really care that much. My main reason for thinking what I do is just a gut feeling. Do whatever you please.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

...I literally just explained why this would not work. At no point does Tirek change position inside his shield. His pose remains exactly the same for the entirety he has the shield on. He's moving with the shield. If the beam has hit him that hard, he would have gotten pushed backwards the second the beam made contact with his shield, the kinetic energy would have rippled through it and into Tirek and shunted him backwards. But that didn't happen. Tirek doesn't budge a single centimeter from his position or even have his body shake from the force. All we see is the shield getting pushed backwards.

...Or maybe the explosion didn't hurt him because it was in the background? Except there is proof to argue it my way.

Except that the laws of physics don't always completely apply in children's cartoons.

Also, what exactly were we arguing about again in the first place?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Wasn't it you who said it was fallacious to use author intent as an argument?
Anyways, I'm tired arguing about this. I don't even really care that much. My main reason for thinking what I do is just a gut feeling. Do whatever you please.

I'm not 100% certain I said that, but if I did I might have said that any time and I don't really feel like reading through all my comments to check if I did. I think you brought up author intent when I brought up Twilight being portrayed as inferior to Celestia via the amulet. After that point, I was arguing against your interpretatio of author intent, not dismissing author intent in general. I think.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Except thats all we see. It's not about not follwing physics. We're literally shown on-screen that Tirek does not change balance after his shield getting hit and subsequently moving. If it helps, we see a jet of Twilight's magic explode from behind the shield before the screen whites out. Which may support my idea.

We're arguing Twilight being at Cozy's (and by extention, Sombra's) level. Amongst many things being argued we got into the shield's vs ap argument again, and you asked for a shield being broken by a relative equal to which I responded with Tirek as an example.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Cool. That is just one example that isn't 100% clear either way, but sure. I don't think Cozy is way stronger than Twilight, but there's more evidence than not that she's stronger. Even if you take into account her blast not breaking the shield, there's her saying she'll wipe the floor with all of them, there's the incredible casualness with which she fought until strategy was employed, there's the fact that she wasn't worried at all about taking on all 3 alicorns, and never being taken on directly by Twilight, both in Canterlot and on the field, implying that Twilight probably couldn't have taken her on through sheer strength.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Cool. That is just one example that isn't 100% clear either way, but sure. I don't think Cozy is way stronger than Twilight, but there's more evidence than not that she's stronger. Even if you take into account her blast not breaking the shield, there's her saying she'll wipe the floor with all of them, there's the incredible casualness with which she fought until strategy was employed, there's the fact that she wasn't worried at all about taking on all 3 alicorns, and never being taken on directly by Twilight, both in Canterlot and on the field, implying that Twilight probably couldn't have taken her on through sheer strength.

Her one sole feat is being implied to be Sombra level at her absolute best and ko-ing Twilight for a few seconds, which considering how fast she recovered I'm beginning to doubt was even a ko to begin with, and even still is yet again a stamina issue. Yeah, no shit she was casual. She had a bell that could steal magic from the freaking Lord of Chaos. Ofc she's not taking the situation seriously and of course she'll think she can mop the floor with everyone. Lets try not to take character statements from people with their heads up their flanks. Twilight has taken on her equals and knocked them off their feet and momentarily blocked their combined blast. Twilight has way more feats than she does anti feats in the finale.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

A Wild Ability CRT has appeared!

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Ok, anyways, Season 9 Twilight should get an At least 4-B profile. Beginning of Season 9 Twilight is lower than end of Season 9 Twilight, but they both directly scale to people who are Celestia level or higher, even if they're weaker.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I just realized that Starswirl should also be upgraded to At least 4-B, as he was shown as stronger than Twilight in the premier when blasting the vines. Though season 9 finale Twilight is still significantly stronger.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bump?

 

[ThatDude343]

This idea that Bell Cozy is somehow an equal for Base Alicorn Twilight is absolutely insane.


1. Twilight never got a chance to fight Cozy in the throne room alone. Celestia gives her a futile warning in which she retorts with a magic blast that Twilight's half dome shrugs off. Immediately after putting up the shield, she then goes against the idea of Celestia and Luna enganging. This is heavily implied to be because Twilight knows this is some form of trap (either that or they already had a plan in place). Before Tirek and Chrysalis forcefully entered the palace, Cozy was surrounded by a base mane 6 with Twilight about to cast a spell, she looked absolutely defeated in this position.


2. Cozy knows she couldn't beat Celestia and Luna, must less actually win in a fair fight, which is why she had the bell with her the entire time. Cozy has gotten this far because of her manipulative nature and her asympathetic deduction. She still gets what she wants through words. If controlling Discord's magic wasn't retconned in the series finale, Cozy would have been the strongest character in the entire series.


3. Prior to the bell, Cozy had been a Pegasus for all of her life. The point? The same reason why Flurry Heart isn't considered a top tier: Experience. A filly who just got a portion of extremely powerful ancient magic isn't going to be able to defeat a gifted unicorn/alicorn who had been studying magic her entire life.


At most, you could say Bell Cozy =< Cadance, but that's it. Hell, if you gave Cozy Glow prep time I could see her being stronger, but I assumed not.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Since the finale officially aired, we should do these soon. First, I think we should give Chrysalis a key for her bell enhanced form. It seems to me that she is still weaker than she was when she absorbed all of Shining Armor's love, as Starlight (who should be inferior to Celestia) gave her some trouble, whereas post love absorption Chrysalis could defeat Celestia with high difficulty.

 

[Js250476]

Cozy also needs a profile in general.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Cozy Glow does need a profile indeed.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Does anyone mind if I give Chrysalis a key for her Post Bewitching Bell state? She doesn't seem to have any new abilities, though she is stronger than her base state. As stated though, she does seem somewhat weaker than she was when she absorbed Shining Armor's love. Starlight gave her some trouble, and Starlight is definitely inferior to Celestia. It may seem like that's inconsistent due to the fact that would imply Shining Armor had more power than her share of the Bewitching Bell's initial power, but keep in mind she didn't absorb Shining Armor's magic to get stronger, she absorbed his love for Cadence and channeled it into a power source for her. That's not a result of the magic he had, it's a result of the amount of love he had for Cadence, which is actually pretty heartwarming when you think about it (if his love was powerful enough to do that and than to banish her and her army...).

 

[Lightbuster30]

Or maybe Starlight simply grew stronger like Twilight? It's not like people just stay at the same level of strength forever. Otherwise, we may as well give them all 6-B since the Mane 6 also ave them problems.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Are you suggesting in that case that Twilight and Starlight became stronger than Celestia or the others are now 4-B as well? No, really, I'm being as sincere with this question as possible. Do you recommend upgrading the others as well? Alternatively, could any of this fall under an outlier? What do you think post Bewitching Bell Chrysalis's power level is? You seem well versed in the franchise, what do you think the pecking order is? We can give her a 4-B key for her Bell form, but we need to state how powerful she is compared to her post love absorption state.

 

[ThatDude343]

The main point in contention for the Bell Chrysalis vs. Love-absorbed Chrysalis debacle is the idea that LA Chrysalis was able to defeat Celestia w/ high diff, while Bell Chrysalis defeated Starlight with seemingly only mid diff. The problem would arisen from the scenario where if you were to believe that Bell Chrysalis > LA Chrysalis, then you would be indirectly saying that S9 Starlight > Celestia. Tbh, I don't think this is entirely true and here's why.

I think it's worth pointing out that the means of fighting were completely different and might change the scaling dependent on what you value.

Chrysalis vs Celestia was a straight up magic beam duel. Magic beams have been very weird in the show in general, but generally it's a battle of raw magical power.

Against Starlight however, it was more of a game of cat and mouse, where Starlight was more intent on being as evasive and annoying as possible. She never attempted to overpower Chrysalis and instead used the environment to her advantage and eventually trap her.

Honestly, it wouldn't even be as much of a big deal if you wanted to highball Starlight and say that she did get stronger, even more than Celestia. Imo, it just seems kind of weird to me that Chrysalis wouldn't have been in her most strongest state given that her form did actually change, akin to Thorax.

 

[Lightbuster30]

No not really? I mean, Bell Chrysalis is comparable to Love Absorbed Chrysalis. At the very max she may be superior to an unknown degree. As far as I'm concerned, she's only a percentage stronger seeing as LA is merely for scaling purposes. Certainly not so far above LA Chrysalis that to fight on par with her would automatically make one > Celestia. She's strong enough to blast Chrysalis backwards and hit her hard enough to piss her off. Starlight's weaker than Chrysalis by an unknown quantity, but still strong enough to hold her own against her. I reiterate: This does not suggest being > Celestia, though I would argue it makes her close to Celestia.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This idea that Bell Cozy is somehow an equal for Base Alicorn Twilight is absolutely insane.
1. Twilight never got a chance to fight Cozy in the throne room alone. Celestia gives her a futile warning in which she retorts with a magic blast that Twilight's half dome shrugs off. Immediately after putting up the shield, she then goes against the idea of Celestia and Luna enganging. This is heavily implied to be because Twilight knows this is some form of trap (either that or they already had a plan in place). Before Tirek and Chrysalis forcefully entered the palace, Cozy was surrounded by a base mane 6 with Twilight about to cast a spell, she looked absolutely defeated in this position.


2. Cozy knows she couldn't beat Celestia and Luna, must less actually win in a fair fight, which is why she had the bell with her the entire time. Cozy has gotten this far because of her manipulative nature and her asympathetic deduction. She still gets what she wants through words. If controlling Discord's magic wasn't retconned in the series finale, Cozy would have been the strongest character in the entire series.


3. Prior to the bell, Cozy had been a Pegasus for all of her life. The point? The same reason why Flurry Heart isn't considered a top tier: Experience. A filly who just got a portion of extremely powerful ancient magic isn't going to be able to defeat a gifted unicorn/alicorn who had been studying magic her entire life.

The idea that a final villain is weaker than the main character is absolutely insane. Twilight even said, "Keep telling yourself that!" when Cozy mentioned the heroes just using raw power, implying that they could only beat Cozy because they used teamwork and distractions. Also, the Mane 6 did seem to get a huge power boost in the finale, so that's not really a solid argument. Also, being weaker than Celestia and Luna doesn't mean she's weaker than Twilight alone. Like, what?

Also, Flurry Heart is very different from Cozy Glow. Flurry has literally one feat when in an enraged state, while Cozy actually has a consistent level of magic that's given to her by the bell. It's not about experience. We're talking about raw power, which is all from the bell. She doesn't get less magic because she has less experience. She's less skillful than Twilight for sure, but Cozy is at least on the same level.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Since the finale officially aired, we should do these soon. First, I think we should give Chrysalis a key for her bell enhanced form. It seems to me that she is still weaker than she was when she absorbed all of Shining Armor's love, as Starlight (who should be inferior to Celestia) gave her some trouble, whereas post love absorption Chrysalis could defeat Celestia with high difficulty.

I know Twilight's statement is inconsistent with Tirek, but she did say all the villains returned stronger than ever, and she did see exactly how strong Chrysalis was. And why would she get a new form if she was less powerful than after absorbing love? The argument that it's because it's Grogar's magic doesn't work, since Tirek got the same magic, but he didn't get a new form. Also, Starlight was weaker than Chrysalis. She only managed to fight for so long because she used her smarts, teleporting around and using the environment to her advantage. Her blast against Chrysalis did knock her back, implying the difference isn't gargantuan, but the whole scene did imply Starlight's physical inferiority.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

No not really? I mean, Bell Chrysalis is comparable to Love Absorbed Chrysalis. At the very max she may be superior to an unknown degree. As far as I'm concerned, she's only a percentage stronger seeing as LA is merely for scaling purposes. Certainly not so far above LA Chrysalis that to fight on par with her would automatically make one > Celestia. She's strong enough to blast Chrysalis backwards and hit her hard enough to piss her off. Starlight's weaker than Chrysalis by an unknown quantity, but still strong enough to hold her own against her. I reiterate: This does not suggest being > Celestia, though I would argue it makes her close to Celestia.

I mean, she is comparable to Twilight, who became At least 4-B in season 9 (that key should still happen btw).

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I just realized that Starswirl should also be upgraded to At least 4-B, as he was shown as stronger than Twilight in the premier when blasting the vines. Though season 9 finale Twilight is still significantly stronger.

Is someone gonna address this? I don't see any problems with the logic.

 

[ThatDude343]

This idea that Bell Cozy is somehow an equal for Base Alicorn Twilight is absolutely insane.
1. Twilight never got a chance to fight Cozy in the throne room alone. Celestia gives her a futile warning in which she retorts with a magic blast that Twilight's half dome shrugs off. Immediately after putting up the shield, she then goes against the idea of Celestia and Luna enganging. This is heavily implied to be because Twilight knows this is some form of trap (either that or they already had a plan in place). Before Tirek and Chrysalis forcefully entered the palace, Cozy was surrounded by a base mane 6 with Twilight about to cast a spell, she looked absolutely defeated in this position.


2. Cozy knows she couldn't beat Celestia and Luna, must less actually win in a fair fight, which is why she had the bell with her the entire time. Cozy has gotten this far because of her manipulative nature and her asympathetic deduction. She still gets what she wants through words. If controlling Discord's magic wasn't retconned in the series finale, Cozy would have been the strongest character in the entire series.


3. Prior to the bell, Cozy had been a Pegasus for all of her life. The point? The same reason why Flurry Heart isn't considered a top tier: Experience. A filly who just got a portion of extremely powerful ancient magic isn't going to be able to defeat a gifted unicorn/alicorn who had been studying magic her entire life.

The idea that a final villain is weaker than the main character is absolutely insane. Twilight even said, "Keep telling yourself that!" when Cozy mentioned the heroes just using raw power, implying that they could only beat Cozy because they used teamwork and distractions. Also, the Mane 6 did seem to get a huge power boost in the finale, so that's not really a solid argument.
Also, being weaker than Celestia and Luna doesn't mean she's weaker than Twilight alone. Like, what?

Also, Flurry Heart is very different from Cozy Glow. Flurry has literally one feat when in an enraged state, while Cozy actually has a consistent level of magic that's given to her by the bell. It's not about experience. We're talking about raw power, which is all from the bell. She doesn't get less magic because she has less experience. She's less skillful than Twilight for sure, but Cozy is at least on the same level.

What??


Twilight said keep telling yourself that in retort to Cozy saying that that they don't use their heads. Twilight knew that it was some kind of trap and that any attempt of using her magic would be suicidal. She just saw what happended to the other princesses. They needed to close the gap. As to why she didn't teleport or use telekinesis is probably PIS.


The logic of Cozy being a final villian = must be stronger than main character is faulty. There's nothing that proves that. The final villians together were a very strong threat, but individually they would never be able to conquer Equestria alone.


If Cozy had them beat from the jump, why was she cowering with the bell when she was surrounded? The base Mane 5 didn't make any difference, when the real threat was standing right in front of her. Because the only feats Cozy had shown had been Lasers and Portals. She isn't Twilight's equal.


And I don't think it's out of the ball park to say that current Twilight is stronger than Celestia and Luna individually. She is now able to weaponize the magic of friendship without the elements to a greater extent than in the Season 9 premiere as it can be done without her Mane 5 friends, but virtually any creature in Equestria. She's literally the physical embodiment of the Tree of Harmony which outscales Discord who alone outscales both Celestia and Luna.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Either way, she didn't beat Cozy because she was more powerful. She could be, but nothing about that scene really suggests it.

Ehhhhh. I think Tirek could if he played his cards right.

Because they overwhelmed her. She would've beaten any of them individually. And again, she's less skilled than Twilight, but she's not weaker.

I mean she's not stronger than both of them combined. And that magic of friendship thing isn't her Base Form, and that's the form of Twilight I'm saying Cozy is comparable/superior to.

 

[ThatDude343]

The fact that Twilight's half dome shield deflected Cozy's blast easily while Chrysalis practically obliterated her full dome is a good indictator, especially if you believe that Grogar's bell was divided equally among the three.

He probably could, but that's beside the point. Final villian =/= stronger than MC. The Joker isn't stronger than Batman.

I'm trying to say if Cozy was such a threat, why was she so scared? Because the only threat in the room was standing right in front of her, who would have made quick work with her. Twilight has incapp'd about 20 ponies at the same time with telekinesis, Cozy should have been able to do something similiar to atleast stand a chance.

Why isn't that her base form now? She didn't recieve a power boost or transformation, she just found her true potential as the princess of friendship. All it took for her was an epiphany that the villians were trying to mess with her ideology.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Well, Chrysalis is stronger than Twilight by a significant amount, and that was a different attack.

But that's because Joker is a planner villain. While Cozy was too in season 8, she's meant to be a direct threat in season 9.

Because Twilight is more skilled. And Cozy doesn't know that ability.

Because she needs to be around the elements to do that. And she didn't have that at the time, so it's irrelevant.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

I don't know if this contributes much to the discussion, but two things: 1, assuming Grogar's magic was divided exactly equally is a fallacy of logic. Even when things should make since like that, it's not always how it works. That's like assuming that if it took 25 minutes to cook something at 200 degrees, it would only take 2 minutes at 2500 degrees. If you put to things in a microwave together and cook them both at the same time, one might be hotter than the other. Reality is sometimes unrealistic. It's supposed to be simple, but it's not. I'd argue Cozy got the most magic since she was originally a simple Pegasus filly and became an alicorn strong enough to somewhat hurt Twilight, while Tirek, who was already on the brink of reaching his third form (given that draining a single Earth Pony got him there in Summer Sun Setback), wasn't brought to his fourth form by it, and Chrysalis, who was at least strong enough to very briefly contend with Mean Twilight, was still able to be somewhat hurt by Starlight. 2, one reason Cozy might have seemed so concerned when she was surrounded by the Mane 6 might have been that the bell would have no effect on any of them other than Twilight and Rarity. Celestia and Luna could still fly and somewhat hold off the villains after getting their magic drained, so it appears that it doesn't drain Earth Pony and Pegasus abilities like Tirek's magic draining does. She could have sapped Twilight and Rarity of magic, but they would still have their natural strength and, in Twilight's case, flight, not to mention the other four and Spike.

 

[ThatDude343]

The means of how the shield was broken are irrelevant, the fact is Chrysalis could while Cozy couldn't.


You never differientiated between planner villian and combat villian, you just said final villian.


Which again goes towards my point that they never were equals as to which you are inferring.


We just established that Twilight doesn't need the elements to preform her rainbow shenangians anymore, she's beyond that now.

 

[ThatDude343]

I don't know if this contributes much to the discussion, but two things: 1, assuming Grogar's magic was divided exactly equally is a fallacy of logic. Even when things should make since like that, it's not always how it works. That's like assuming that if it took 25 minutes to cook something at 200 degrees, it would only take 2 minutes at 2500 degrees. If you put to things in a microwave together and cook them both at the same time, one might be hotter than the other. Reality is sometimes unrealistic. It's supposed to be simple, but it's not. I'd argue Cozy got the most magic since she was originally a simple Pegasus filly and became an alicorn strong enough to somewhat hurt Twilight, while Tirek, who was already on the brink of reaching his third form (given that draining a single Earth Pony got him there in Summer Sun Setback), wasn't brought to his fourth form by it, and Chrysalis, who was at least strong enough to very briefly contend with Mean Twilight, was still able to be somewhat hurt by Starlight. 2, one reason Cozy might have seemed so concerned when she was surrounded by the Mane 6 might have been that the bell would have no effect on any of them other than Twilight and Rarity. Celestia and Luna could still fly and somewhat hold off the villains after getting their magic drained, so it appears that it doesn't drain Earth Pony and Pegasus abilities like Tirek's magic draining does. She could have sapped Twilight and Rarity of magic, but they would still have their natural strength and, in Twilight's case, flight, not to mention the other four and Spike.

It can't be disproven going both ways.


Remember, Tirek in his fourth form had the magic of Discord. And we know damn well what happended when Cozy tried to absorb Discord's magic. It's like alicorn steriods. It's a possibility that 1/3 of Grogar's Bell is enough power to surpass that of a regular alicorn, and the one Cozy recieved was just what we saw. Even if the difference isn't exactly even by the decimal, there's no way that either villian would allow each other to have a surmountable difference in the dividing of the power.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The means of how the shield was broken are irrelevant, the fact is Chrysalis could while Cozy couldn't.

You never differientiated between planner villian and combat villian, you just said final villian.


Which again goes towards my point that they never were equals as to which you are inferring.


We just established that Twilight doesn't need the elements to preform her rainbow shenangians anymore, she's beyond that now.

Either way, being weaker than Chrysalis doesn't mean she's weaker than Twilight.

Well, in that case, I'll clarify. What kind of show has a final villain that's meant to be a threat in terms of strength and is weaker than the main character?

Twilight, since sh'e studied magic her whole life, is more skilled. Cozy, with probably more than 1/3 of Grogar's power, is stronger.

I mean the people who represent the elements: past, present, or future. And she didn't have that at the time, so either way, that Twilight wasn't as strong as both princesses combined.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Well, I don't think they can really control how much they each get in their share. Nor do I think they can sense how much power each other got. Keep in mind Tirek said they couldn't take the princesses magic without taking Discord's as well, so it seems they can't choose the magic they want to take from the bell. It's like in Baldi's Basics where you can't choose what item you want to give the bully. Even if Cozy did get the most out of the three, she's still the weakest due to how vastly inferior she is to them when all three are in their normal states, so it's not like she's a threat to the other two. Moreover, even if she did become stronger than the other two, they would have no way of knowing that unless she tried to turn on them. This isn't like Dragonball where you can sense energy. They have no way of knowing how much power each of them got until they test it out. That's why Cozy was surprised when she couldn't use Discord's magic effectively.

Anyway, for the post love absorption Chrysalis vs post BB Chrysalis debate, that comes down to how powerful you believe season 9 Starlight is compared to Celestia and how much the different ways Chrysalis fought Celestia and Starlight matters. I will say though that in her base form, Chrysalis was at least able to briefly contend with Mean Twilight, though we don't know if she's exactly as strong as regular Twilight and in any case certainly has nowhere near the skill or experience as her, so Chrysalis in her base state should clearly be weaker than Twilight as of season 8, and Starlight was said to be roughly equal to Twilight or possibly even a little bit stronger.

 

[Lightbuster30]

If Cozy Glow was given enough might to be a big enough threat that Celestia and Luna felt the need to combine their power in the exact same way they did against Sombra then logically, the far more powerful Chrysalis who is <= Starswirl tier, ought to be at least Celestia tier.

@Goku Sparkle: Which version of Twilight is significantly weaker than Chrysalis? S7 Twilight or End of S9 Twilight, because I heavily disagree with the later.

Side note: After re-watching Chrysalis vs Starlight, Starlight never got knocked out. She got knocked down by the blast and Chrysalis cocooned her before she could do anything. At berst you can say Chrysalis dazed her for a moment, but recovered quickly. Starlight was clearly conscious in that scene. So the only other scene left portraying Starlight as immensely weaker than Chrysalis is one where she is tired from doing a big blast and had her back turned. One less L.