- 31,208
- 27,406
We're not acting like they're rejected. They just aren't in use yet and may potentially be changed.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
My Hero Academia Upgrades
- Thread starter Therefir
- Start date
- 31,208
- 27,406
It's going alright, I've just been feeling really terrible lately so haven't had much motivation.
Also, you can apply upgrades that have been approved. If any revisions/downgrades happen as a result of my blog, it's just changes that can be made in the future.
Also, you can apply upgrades that have been approved. If any revisions/downgrades happen as a result of my blog, it's just changes that can be made in the future.
- 31,208
- 27,406
@Therefir, I thought you said you were using Tokoyami's feat for Mina, Tsuyu and maybe Momo? I don't think Shinso scales at all.
He should, really, still be Wall level for now.
EDIT: I dislike a lot of speculative justifications, like "Should be able to hurt Tokoyami". There is nothing in the manga stating Shinso should be able to hurt Tokoyami.
EDIT2: I'm also not sure where you're getting "Should be superior to Tokoyami" for Momo, and using that to upgrade her AP too? I think you're going a bit far with the upgrades.
He should, really, still be Wall level for now.
EDIT: I dislike a lot of speculative justifications, like "Should be able to hurt Tokoyami". There is nothing in the manga stating Shinso should be able to hurt Tokoyami.
EDIT2: I'm also not sure where you're getting "Should be superior to Tokoyami" for Momo, and using that to upgrade her AP too? I think you're going a bit far with the upgrades.
- 31,208
- 27,406
Shinso was already scaled from Izuku to be 9-B. I'm not sure what's different now that would make him 9-A.
- 8,229
- 1,487
So from what I'm understanding Mina's going to be 9-A physically, will she be higher with Acid or not since it's not really a physical attack?
Also I feel like Momo's Intelligence section doesn't do her justice. I mean, she has to know the molecular structure of everything she makes IIRC.
Also I feel like Momo's Intelligence section doesn't do her justice. I mean, she has to know the molecular structure of everything she makes IIRC.
- 8,377
- 3,045
Momo blocked one of dark Shadow's attack in the tournament, so we can at least scale to her dura.
- 31,208
- 27,406
Oh yeah, I forgot that it's assumed Izuku has 8-C durability in the Sports Fest. I need to get cracking on this blog. Once that's resolved, everything else should start falling in place.
As you know, I really don't think his durability that high during the Sports Fest. I'll summarize all of my points later with evidence but look at it like this:
1) Izuku was hurt badly by a Wall level explosion during the Battle Trial Arc (I have a rough calc for that to be posted later)
2) Izuku has casual 9-B+ feats with 5% Full Cowl.
3) Izuku has a casual 9-A+ feat with 8% Full Cowl.
4) Izuku's 5% attacks did significantly less damage to Stain than Todoroki's attack.
5) Stain comments that Izuku's 5% Full Cowl has good speed but lacks power.
Basically what I'm thinking currently (and I will attempt to prove at all as best I can soon) is:
From there, Shinso would be 9-B. Most students would vary between 9-B and 9-A phyiscally. (Which is also consistent with Mei being 9-B.)
As you know, I really don't think his durability that high during the Sports Fest. I'll summarize all of my points later with evidence but look at it like this:
1) Izuku was hurt badly by a Wall level explosion during the Battle Trial Arc (I have a rough calc for that to be posted later)
2) Izuku has casual 9-B+ feats with 5% Full Cowl.
3) Izuku has a casual 9-A+ feat with 8% Full Cowl.
4) Izuku's 5% attacks did significantly less damage to Stain than Todoroki's attack.
5) Stain comments that Izuku's 5% Full Cowl has good speed but lacks power.
Basically what I'm thinking currently (and I will attempt to prove at all as best I can soon) is:
- Base Izuku is 9-B.
- Izuku's 5% is 9-A.
- Izuku's 8% is 9-A+.
From there, Shinso would be 9-B. Most students would vary between 9-B and 9-A phyiscally. (Which is also consistent with Mei being 9-B.)
- 31,208
- 27,406
That was with a metal shield that she created IIRC.TriforcePower1 said:
- 8,377
- 3,045
That was with a metal shield that she created IIRC.
Still, it would have broken her arm if she hadn't comparable dura.
Still, it would have broken her arm if she hadn't comparable dura.
- 31,208
- 27,406
Right now daytime Dark Shadow gets its AP from hurting Momo... so it would be circular reasoning, unless that's changed.
- 9,629
- 8,663
- Thread starter
- #97
@Damage3245 Bakugou's explosions are too inconsistent to justify Izuku's durability, and the Izuku who fought Bakugou is not the same who fought Shinso, also, some days later after the festival he fought Stain.
Even if Deku didn't hurt Stain so much, Stain survived flames that are casually 0.81 tons, so Deku still scale.
Even if Deku didn't hurt Stain so much, Stain survived flames that are casually 0.81 tons, so Deku still scale.
- 31,208
- 27,406
> Izuku who fought Bakugou is not the same who fought Shinso
About as big a difference as the Izuku from the Spots Fest to the Hero Killer Arc.
You're okay with using the size of Bakugo's explosions to make Tokoyami (and a bunch of other characters) 9-A+ but not for other explosions?
If we can't use the one from the Battle Trial Arc, why can we use the ones from the Sports Fest?
> Even if Deku didn't hurt Stain so much, Stain survived flames that are casually 0.81 tons, so Deku still scale.
No, I don't understand this. Stain surviving something that's supposedly 0.81 tons doesn't mean that slightly hurting him = 0.81 tons. Izuku's attack can be a lot weaker than Todoroki's and still hurt Stain slightly. (Made him stagger with his first punch, barely staggered him with his second punch).
About as big a difference as the Izuku from the Spots Fest to the Hero Killer Arc.
You're okay with using the size of Bakugo's explosions to make Tokoyami (and a bunch of other characters) 9-A+ but not for other explosions?
If we can't use the one from the Battle Trial Arc, why can we use the ones from the Sports Fest?
> Even if Deku didn't hurt Stain so much, Stain survived flames that are casually 0.81 tons, so Deku still scale.
No, I don't understand this. Stain surviving something that's supposedly 0.81 tons doesn't mean that slightly hurting him = 0.81 tons. Izuku's attack can be a lot weaker than Todoroki's and still hurt Stain slightly. (Made him stagger with his first punch, barely staggered him with his second punch).
- 31,208
- 27,406
Deku never explicitely used 5% during the festival IIRC. And Iida's Recripro Burst only has its current AP from hurting Stain who gets his durability from Todoroki's fire... which I don't accept is 0.81 tons, so that doesn't help much either.Therefir said:
- 9,629
- 8,663
- Thread starter
- #101
What you accept doesn't matter if everyone else agreed with it, and yes Deku was using 5%, All Might mentioned that percentage in the tournament, also his punch would have killed Todoroki if it wasn't 5%.
Actually anything higher than 5% would have broken Deku's arm, turning it purple but after punching Todoroki his arm didn't change color.
Actually anything higher than 5% would have broken Deku's arm, turning it purple but after punching Todoroki his arm didn't change color.
- 31,208
- 27,406
Again though, if Todoroki's durability is 9-A+ then the problem vanishes.
Everything once again comes down to the assumption that Todoroki's fire blast was 8-C. It looks the scaling for the majority of the characters depends on that one feat.
I don't like it because the assumption that Todoroki singlehandedly removed the Giant Ice Wall in 5 minutes is (to put it in terms I don't like), a headcanon. There isn't any objective proof he did it, which is why for such important scaling I don't like it.
Everything becomes a lot more consistent and simplified if we don't get along with the assumption that Todoroki's fire blast against Stain was 8-C.
Everything once again comes down to the assumption that Todoroki's fire blast was 8-C. It looks the scaling for the majority of the characters depends on that one feat.
I don't like it because the assumption that Todoroki singlehandedly removed the Giant Ice Wall in 5 minutes is (to put it in terms I don't like), a headcanon. There isn't any objective proof he did it, which is why for such important scaling I don't like it.
Everything becomes a lot more consistent and simplified if we don't get along with the assumption that Todoroki's fire blast against Stain was 8-C.
- 31,208
- 27,406
I know. I reread the scene and it's likely that he did use 5% in that case. But that also fits into my explanations of the scaling.
- 9,629
- 8,663
- Thread starter
- #105
@Damage3245 We already discussed this, no one else except Endeavor and Todoroki, could have vaporized the Giant Ice Wall in such a short time, if Todoroki could not do it alone, the festival would have been canceled.
- 31,208
- 27,406
Except 'the festival would have been cancelled' is also a headcanon.
We have no indication the passage of time was as short as 1 minute or even 5 minutes. All we have to go off is the announcer stating that the arena was thawed out and the next match could start.
For all we know, it could have been as long as 10 minutes, 15 minutes or even 20 minutes. There is no indicate whatsoever that the event would be cancelled if it took them 20 minutes to clear the arena of ice.
EDIT: And as I said, we don't even know if Todoroki did it all himself. For all we know he just freed Sero and left leaving the clear-up to other people. That's another thing I hate about this feat.
Just because you don't know of anyone that could clear away the ice in a short amount of time (Maybe Endeavor vaporized it, maybe Cementoss broke it apart and carried away?) doesn't mean the only explanation is Shoto got rid of it.
We have no indication the passage of time was as short as 1 minute or even 5 minutes. All we have to go off is the announcer stating that the arena was thawed out and the next match could start.
For all we know, it could have been as long as 10 minutes, 15 minutes or even 20 minutes. There is no indicate whatsoever that the event would be cancelled if it took them 20 minutes to clear the arena of ice.
EDIT: And as I said, we don't even know if Todoroki did it all himself. For all we know he just freed Sero and left leaving the clear-up to other people. That's another thing I hate about this feat.
Just because you don't know of anyone that could clear away the ice in a short amount of time (Maybe Endeavor vaporized it, maybe Cementoss broke it apart and carried away?) doesn't mean the only explanation is Shoto got rid of it.
- 10,758
- 6,491
I believe Todoroki thawing the ice himself is the most reasonable assumption here. However, I believe Damage has a point about the timeframe being highly speculative.
- 9,629
- 8,663
- Thread starter
- #108
1 minutes, 5, 10, and 30 minutes is the timeframes you can assume, not 15 or 20.
> And as I said, we don't even know if Todoroki did it all himself. For all we know he just freed Sero and left leaving the clear-up to other people. That's another thing I hate about this feat. Just because you don't know of anyone that could clear away the ice in a short amount of time (Maybe Endeavor vaporized it, maybe Cementoss broke it apart and carried away?) doesn't mean the only explanation is Shoto got rid of it.
Endeavor is not going to help Todoroki, because first, he wants his son to use his fire side, second, he had a discussion with his son before the fight, and third, he is a doushbag who doesn't help anyone. And how exactly Cementoss could clean the ice in such a short time and without leaving any trace? Sorry but you are assuming way more things than me.
> And as I said, we don't even know if Todoroki did it all himself. For all we know he just freed Sero and left leaving the clear-up to other people. That's another thing I hate about this feat. Just because you don't know of anyone that could clear away the ice in a short amount of time (Maybe Endeavor vaporized it, maybe Cementoss broke it apart and carried away?) doesn't mean the only explanation is Shoto got rid of it.
Endeavor is not going to help Todoroki, because first, he wants his son to use his fire side, second, he had a discussion with his son before the fight, and third, he is a doushbag who doesn't help anyone. And how exactly Cementoss could clean the ice in such a short time and without leaving any trace? Sorry but you are assuming way more things than me.
- 31,208
- 27,406
Therefir; even if Todoroki did do it alone, he didn't necessarily have to use his casual fire to do it.
We saw him start off casually sure, holding his arm up in Sero's face to thaw him out (I don't think Sero has 8-C durability at this point so I doubt Todoroki was using 8-C flames here), but after Sero is gone, what is stopping Todorki from using his more powerful flames to melt the ice?
That's another reason why 0.81 tons shouldn't be accepted as his casual fire blasts.
And I know those are the standard timeframes, but that's my point. What makes those assumptions any better? If the situation is so ambiguous that you can't tell if Todoroki melted it in 1 minute or 20 minutes, then it's not useable.
We saw him start off casually sure, holding his arm up in Sero's face to thaw him out (I don't think Sero has 8-C durability at this point so I doubt Todoroki was using 8-C flames here), but after Sero is gone, what is stopping Todorki from using his more powerful flames to melt the ice?
That's another reason why 0.81 tons shouldn't be accepted as his casual fire blasts.
And I know those are the standard timeframes, but that's my point. What makes those assumptions any better? If the situation is so ambiguous that you can't tell if Todoroki melted it in 1 minute or 20 minutes, then it's not useable.
- 4,327
- 2,978
I very much agree with Damage here. That scene requires many assumptions that aren't safe due to ambiguity. Anyone's assumption is as valid as another's since it's too ambiguous.
- 9,629
- 8,663
- Thread starter
- #111
> We saw him start off casually sure, holding his arm up in Sero's face to thaw him out (I don't think Sero has 8-C durability at this point so I doubt Todoroki was using 8-C flames here), but after Sero is gone, what is stopping Todorki from using his more powerful flames to melt the ice?
He wasn't concentrating the heat on Sero, he was concentrating the heat on the whole ice structure. Also, he didn't like to use his flames at that time, so I doubt he use them.
> And I know those are the standard timeframes, but that's my point. What makes those assumptions any better? If the situation is so ambiguous that you can't tell if Todoroki melted it in 1 minute or 20 minutes, then it's not useable.
Wrong, we know that the festival was not delayed or cancelled, so we can assume a timeframe of 1, 5 and 10 minutes, there is no calculation that assumes 20 minutes, so can you stop saying that?
He wasn't concentrating the heat on Sero, he was concentrating the heat on the whole ice structure. Also, he didn't like to use his flames at that time, so I doubt he use them.
> And I know those are the standard timeframes, but that's my point. What makes those assumptions any better? If the situation is so ambiguous that you can't tell if Todoroki melted it in 1 minute or 20 minutes, then it's not useable.
Wrong, we know that the festival was not delayed or cancelled, so we can assume a timeframe of 1, 5 and 10 minutes, there is no calculation that assumes 20 minutes, so can you stop saying that?
- 31,208
- 27,406
> He wasn't concentrating the heat on Sero, he was concentrating the heat on the whole structure. Also he didn't like to use his flames in that time, so I doubt he use them.
Todoroki hasn't shown in the manga that he can evenly disperse his feat over such a wide area at will. If the heat is emnating from his body, logically speaking it would get stronger the closer you are to him. He held his arm right up in Sero's face, so Sero should be recieving the most heat by comparison.
He may not have liked to use his flames, but he clearly showed a willingness to do so during the actual battle. If we're just making assumptions that he evenly heated up the giant ice wall all at once, you might as well assume he used his flames too.
And once again; he could have turned up the heat as soon as Sero was freed. Since the entire feat was offscreen, there is no reason to assume he didn't. We can't use this to get Todoroki's casual fire blasts.
> Wrong, we know that the festival was not delayed or cancelled, so you can assume a timeframe.
And how do you know how long it would take before the festival would have to be cancelled?
Todoroki hasn't shown in the manga that he can evenly disperse his feat over such a wide area at will. If the heat is emnating from his body, logically speaking it would get stronger the closer you are to him. He held his arm right up in Sero's face, so Sero should be recieving the most heat by comparison.
He may not have liked to use his flames, but he clearly showed a willingness to do so during the actual battle. If we're just making assumptions that he evenly heated up the giant ice wall all at once, you might as well assume he used his flames too.
And once again; he could have turned up the heat as soon as Sero was freed. Since the entire feat was offscreen, there is no reason to assume he didn't. We can't use this to get Todoroki's casual fire blasts.
> Wrong, we know that the festival was not delayed or cancelled, so you can assume a timeframe.
And how do you know how long it would take before the festival would have to be cancelled?
- 9,629
- 8,663
- Thread starter
- #113
> Todoroki hasn't shown in the manga that he can evenly disperse his feat over such a wide area at will. If the heat is emnating from his body, logically speaking it would get stronger the closer you are to him. He held his arm right up in Sero's face, so Sero should be recieving the most heat by comparison.
He actually vape an entire building by touching a wall, and the people there was not harmed. Also, I do think that when Todoroki vaped the whole structure Sero was not there, but what this have to do with the feat?
> And once again; he could have turned up the heat as soon as Sero was freed. Since the entire feat was offscreen, there is no reason to assume he didn't. We can't use this to get Todoroki's casual fire blasts.
It doesn't matter if he turned up the heat, he is not going to create flames that could potencially hurt the people there, and without creating flames the feat is still technically casual.
> And how do you know how long it would take before the festival would have to be cancelled?
I'm just using logic, if Todoroki had taken 30 minutes to clear the whole ice, they would have said something like the festival was delayed.
He actually vape an entire building by touching a wall, and the people there was not harmed. Also, I do think that when Todoroki vaped the whole structure Sero was not there, but what this have to do with the feat?
> And once again; he could have turned up the heat as soon as Sero was freed. Since the entire feat was offscreen, there is no reason to assume he didn't. We can't use this to get Todoroki's casual fire blasts.
It doesn't matter if he turned up the heat, he is not going to create flames that could potencially hurt the people there, and without creating flames the feat is still technically casual.
> And how do you know how long it would take before the festival would have to be cancelled?
I'm just using logic, if Todoroki had taken 30 minutes to clear the whole ice, they would have said something like the festival was delayed.
- 31,208
- 27,406
> He actually vape an entire building by touching a wall, and the people there was not harmed.
A substantially less amount of ice. Not really comparable. And it's a lot less impressive looking in the manga.
> It doesn't matter if he turned up the heat, he is not going to create flames that could potencially hurt the people there, and without creating flames the feat is still casual.
Creating flames wouldn't result in being hurt. Even his regular fire blasts are much smaller than the entire ice structure. He wouldn't be hurting people with them.
And since the feat is offscreen, it's impossible to say he didn't use his flames to clear it.
> I'm just using logic, if Todoroki had taken 30 minutes to clear the ice, they would have said something like the festival was delayed.
The match was already delayed to some extent because of the time took to clear the ice. And once again, you don't know that there would have been an announcement about it if it took 30 minutes.
And it didn't have to take 30 minutes. It could have been 10, or 20 minutes. Whether those are standard timeframes or not, my point is that it it is too ambiguous.
For such an important feat that a whole bunch of scaling rests upon; this isn't useable. We need a better way of calcing Todoroki's casual fire blasts.
What about this feat? Todoroki's actual fire blast melts a structure of ice to save Deku and another hero. It's less impressive because it is smaller, and he doesn't vaporize the ice but it looks more useful.
A substantially less amount of ice. Not really comparable. And it's a lot less impressive looking in the manga.
> It doesn't matter if he turned up the heat, he is not going to create flames that could potencially hurt the people there, and without creating flames the feat is still casual.
Creating flames wouldn't result in being hurt. Even his regular fire blasts are much smaller than the entire ice structure. He wouldn't be hurting people with them.
And since the feat is offscreen, it's impossible to say he didn't use his flames to clear it.
> I'm just using logic, if Todoroki had taken 30 minutes to clear the ice, they would have said something like the festival was delayed.
The match was already delayed to some extent because of the time took to clear the ice. And once again, you don't know that there would have been an announcement about it if it took 30 minutes.
And it didn't have to take 30 minutes. It could have been 10, or 20 minutes. Whether those are standard timeframes or not, my point is that it it is too ambiguous.
For such an important feat that a whole bunch of scaling rests upon; this isn't useable. We need a better way of calcing Todoroki's casual fire blasts.
What about this feat? Todoroki's actual fire blast melts a structure of ice to save Deku and another hero. It's less impressive because it is smaller, and he doesn't vaporize the ice but it looks more useful.
- 9,629
- 8,663
- Thread starter
- #115
> A substantially less amount of ice. Not really comparable.
I do believe that when Todoroki vaped the whole structure Sero was not there, but once again, what this have to do with the feat?
> And since the feat is offscreen, it's impossible to say he didn't use his flames to clear it.
Okay but he didn't like to uses his flames in that time, and if he could vape the ice structure without using his flames why would he need to use them if he don't like it?
> The match was already delayed to some extent because of the time took to clear the ice. And once again, you don't know that there would have been an announcement about it if it took 30 minutes.
I'm not talking about an announcement, and Todoroki using his fire for 30 minutes in row it would be too much for him, he would be tired.
> And it didn't have to take 30 minutes. It could have been 10, or 20 minutes. Whether those are standard timeframes or not, my point is that it it is too ambiguous.
I know it is ambiguous but we can try to find timeframe and use it as a low-end.
> What about this feat? Todoroki's actual fire blast melts a structure of ice to save Deku and another hero.
I need the previous panel, the fire is covering the ice.
I do believe that when Todoroki vaped the whole structure Sero was not there, but once again, what this have to do with the feat?
> And since the feat is offscreen, it's impossible to say he didn't use his flames to clear it.
Okay but he didn't like to uses his flames in that time, and if he could vape the ice structure without using his flames why would he need to use them if he don't like it?
> The match was already delayed to some extent because of the time took to clear the ice. And once again, you don't know that there would have been an announcement about it if it took 30 minutes.
I'm not talking about an announcement, and Todoroki using his fire for 30 minutes in row it would be too much for him, he would be tired.
> And it didn't have to take 30 minutes. It could have been 10, or 20 minutes. Whether those are standard timeframes or not, my point is that it it is too ambiguous.
I know it is ambiguous but we can try to find timeframe and use it as a low-end.
> What about this feat? Todoroki's actual fire blast melts a structure of ice to save Deku and another hero.
I need the previous panel, the fire is covering the ice.
- 31,208
- 27,406
Here is the previous page. I don't know how useful that page is though. The ice varies a lot in shape so he's not melting one long solid block. Could use the size of the ice wedge that Izuku is on?
> Okay but he didn't like to uses his flames in that time, and if he could vape the ice structure without using his flames why would he need to use them if he don't like it?
We saw him vaporizing a bit of ice holding Sero. We don't see him vaping the entire ice structure in the manga or the anime.
> Okay but he didn't like to uses his flames in that time, and if he could vape the ice structure without using his flames why would he need to use them if he don't like it?
We saw him vaporizing a bit of ice holding Sero. We don't see him vaping the entire ice structure in the manga or the anime.
- 9,629
- 8,663
- Thread starter
- #117
I'm going to calculate it later.
I still think 30 minutes is too much for Todoroki, I really doubt he can keep using his fire for so many time, but at least you agree that this is the biggest timeframe we could use.
I still think 30 minutes is too much for Todoroki, I really doubt he can keep using his fire for so many time, but at least you agree that this is the biggest timeframe we could use.
- 31,208
- 27,406
I agree that 30 minutes is too much as well. I'm not suggesting we use that for the timeframe. Just trying to explain why I find it hard to accept that the assumed timeframe is 5 minutes when it is so ambiguous.
- 9,629
- 8,663
- Thread starter
- #119
I agree that using 5 minutes is not the lowest end I could use.
When a feat is offscreen or too ambiguous as you said, we always try to find the lowest end possible, but don't say that it's impossible to calculate just for that.
When a feat is offscreen or too ambiguous as you said, we always try to find the lowest end possible, but don't say that it's impossible to calculate just for that.
Similar threads
