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Forgot Izuku was 7-B now, Low 7-B Dura is fine by me.
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My Hero Academia Revisions: It's A Long One People
- Thread starter TheRustyOne
- Start date
- 10,802
- 11,951
- Thread starter
- #122
Basically the question here is, are Endeavor's statements reliable?
This is what I think. I do believe Endeavor's statement is reliable, Shigaraki does have strength similar to All Might. However this seems to be in the same context as Izuku's percentages. Unfortunately Horikoshi doesn't seem to understand the difference between 100% and the lower percentages.
In universe the percentages are indeed linear, but we cannot accept that since we'd get High 7-C 5% in one way, or 8-B 100% in the other direction. The statements that say Shigaraki is comparable to All Might makes sense in universe when he clearly overpowers 45% Izuku. But by our sites standards it does not.
Both Endeavor and 45% Izuku seem to have similar durability, as the damage they took from Shigaraki's strike are somewhat comparable. So once again in universe Endeavor being somewhere under half of All Might's power is fine, but we cannot accept that. Since the difference between All Might and Endeavor is too great.
So I say, similar to how we ignore the linearity of the percentages, I'd say we should just ignore the statements and focus on feats. Shigaraki's current feats just put him above multiple 8-A characters, so I believe his AP should be at least 8-A, with Low 7-B Dura
This is what I think. I do believe Endeavor's statement is reliable, Shigaraki does have strength similar to All Might. However this seems to be in the same context as Izuku's percentages. Unfortunately Horikoshi doesn't seem to understand the difference between 100% and the lower percentages.
In universe the percentages are indeed linear, but we cannot accept that since we'd get High 7-C 5% in one way, or 8-B 100% in the other direction. The statements that say Shigaraki is comparable to All Might makes sense in universe when he clearly overpowers 45% Izuku. But by our sites standards it does not.
Both Endeavor and 45% Izuku seem to have similar durability, as the damage they took from Shigaraki's strike are somewhat comparable. So once again in universe Endeavor being somewhere under half of All Might's power is fine, but we cannot accept that. Since the difference between All Might and Endeavor is too great.
So I say, similar to how we ignore the linearity of the percentages, I'd say we should just ignore the statements and focus on feats. Shigaraki's current feats just put him above multiple 8-A characters, so I believe his AP should be at least 8-A, with Low 7-B Dura
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I appreciate that long wall of text you made explaining shigaraki and endeavors little predicament honestly the least I hope for is for shigaraki to downscale off Kamino All Might and 7-C Endeavor that’s the side I’m leaning to as you made some really good points for that to be the case and it’s backed up at least in universe.
(But if we do decide on Shiggy only Being At least 8-A then I know who I’m putting him up against)
But personally I don’t feel Hawks should be High 8-C or at least if you do you could say that Physically he’s High 8-C but still 8-A with feathers for being able to damage hood somewhat(By Piercing him).
And him failing to one shot a white Nomu could be the outlier here or you could explain it by saying maybe Hawks swung the feathers bad which made a shallow cut as he used his feathers like swords in that scene
And usually it’s not the fault of the blade for a bad cut.
Also he blocked a swing from Hood with a feather sword who has no reason to hold back on Hawks because he wanted him gone so he could focus on Endeavor.
As well as the fact that even though Hawks didn’t kill Jeanist for him to draw a feather blade on him would mean he was confident that he would be capable on Damaging him with them bare minimum would be threaten in case of retaliation although Ignore this point until we get more context in the situation
(But if we do decide on Shiggy only Being At least 8-A then I know who I’m putting him up against)
But personally I don’t feel Hawks should be High 8-C or at least if you do you could say that Physically he’s High 8-C but still 8-A with feathers for being able to damage hood somewhat(By Piercing him).
And him failing to one shot a white Nomu could be the outlier here or you could explain it by saying maybe Hawks swung the feathers bad which made a shallow cut as he used his feathers like swords in that scene
And usually it’s not the fault of the blade for a bad cut.
Also he blocked a swing from Hood with a feather sword who has no reason to hold back on Hawks because he wanted him gone so he could focus on Endeavor.
As well as the fact that even though Hawks didn’t kill Jeanist for him to draw a feather blade on him would mean he was confident that he would be capable on Damaging him with them bare minimum would be threaten in case of retaliation although Ignore this point until we get more context in the situation
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His durability is straight forward his AP not so much
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I agree with Rusty’s reasoning. Shigaraki’s AP should also be Low 7-B
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Also I’m only really asking a question here but
Why don’t we scale current 100% Deku to Wounded All might since we have current 100% at baseline city level(6.3 Megatons)because I‘m sure we have Wounded All might higher based on the EP 1 storm.
(Not sure on the exact value it was for him somewhere between 8-14 megatons correct me if I’m wrong here)
Why don’t we scale current 100% Deku to Wounded All might since we have current 100% at baseline city level(6.3 Megatons)because I‘m sure we have Wounded All might higher based on the EP 1 storm.
(Not sure on the exact value it was for him somewhere between 8-14 megatons correct me if I’m wrong here)
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Why would current 100% Deku scale to a wounded All Might
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Because at least on his updated page Rise of Villains saga 100% has High Hypersonic Speed for being “superior to all might” which I assume they’re referring to Weakened All might
And since OFA boosts all physical stats it would be strange for him to be in Wounded All Mights speed range but be weaker
So I’m kinda curious
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Oh ok so currently it’s agreed on that current 100% is still not quite as strong but definitely not way weaker either
Ok that makes more sense
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So what’s the verdict on Shiggy’s AP
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shouldn't Endeavor also gain Class M Lifting Strength because he was capable of fighting and even restraining Hood and he should be superior to other Pro Heros like Mirko, Ryukyu, and possible Hawks (sorry if this was brought up already still trying to read through the thread)
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Not sure myself as it feels like there’s 4 perspectives on how strong shiggy could be and they’re all valid which is kinda annoying
But I’m leaning towards Low 7-B downscaling from Kamino All might
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The case with hood wasn’t really restraining it was more so that he was holding on and once he punched into his mouth endeavor said he was acting like a wild animal so not really attempting to break the hold aside from biting Endeavour
although the parts on him being potentially superior to Mirko and Ryukyu is more debatable and I’m neutral there
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- Thread starter
- #136
Why would he be physically superior to them? Endeavor hasn't showcase strength on par with them, his own punches only reach 8-A by being propelled by his flames. Also I believe Endeavor's striking strength should stated that he can reach Multi-City Block Class with Hellfire, we've seen him do that already.
His natural strength is Unknown though, and has currently shown no reason to scale to them.
His natural strength is Unknown though, and has currently shown no reason to scale to them.
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So far, this is how things are looking:
Low 7-B Shigaraki
Justifications: Has AFO’s actual quirk and powers, Endeavor/Aizawa statements, should scale to his dura, one shots 8-A characters like Ryukyu with his mere shockwaves.
Issues: Endeavor and 45% Deku took attacks from him, he has no actual AP feats on this level.
At Least 8-A Shigaraki
Justifications: No actual feats above 8-A, would make sense given he is fighting other characters with 8-A feats.
Issues: is a clear low ball given his durability, makes him weaker than Kamino AM and AFO by a lot more than is likely.
7-C Shigaraki
Justifications: Has AFO’s actual quirk and powers, is clearly above 8-A characters, not on par with Deku, Doctor’s statement would apply, Endeavor scaling makes more sense
Issues: Still too large a gap between his AP and Dura, is scaling weaker than serious Kamino AFO and AM
Any reasonings/arguments I’ve left out?
Low 7-B Shigaraki
Justifications: Has AFO’s actual quirk and powers, Endeavor/Aizawa statements, should scale to his dura, one shots 8-A characters like Ryukyu with his mere shockwaves.
Issues: Endeavor and 45% Deku took attacks from him, he has no actual AP feats on this level.
At Least 8-A Shigaraki
Justifications: No actual feats above 8-A, would make sense given he is fighting other characters with 8-A feats.
Issues: is a clear low ball given his durability, makes him weaker than Kamino AM and AFO by a lot more than is likely.
7-C Shigaraki
Justifications: Has AFO’s actual quirk and powers, is clearly above 8-A characters, not on par with Deku, Doctor’s statement would apply, Endeavor scaling makes more sense
Issues: Still too large a gap between his AP and Dura, is scaling weaker than serious Kamino AFO and AM
Any reasonings/arguments I’ve left out?
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Now that you mention it, the fact that he also has AFO's actual Quirk rather than the replica that AFO had and the weaker version that Nine had also works in Shigaraki's favor for being Low 7-B. Yes, he's only at 75% right now, but it's still worth noting.
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His AP isn’t actually defined by having AFO, as it doesn’t increase his base stats to our knowledge. All the strength he has currently is being attributed to the doctor’s modifications rather than any quirks.
My mention of it was more so that he should bare minimum scale to AFO’s version of Air Cannon for those arguments, which even casually is 7-C
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From what I’m able to gather, it would be our safest bet to do this:
Shigaraki AP: At least 7-C, possibly Low 7-B (Is only 75% complete, and is noted to be weaker than All Might by his doctor. Has AFO’s quirks, including Air Cannon. Able to one shot Pro Heroes like Ryukyu with mere shockwaves.)
Endeavor durability: At least 7-C, possibly Low 7-B (can take numerous hits from Shigaraki)
45% Deku stats: (8-A) higher, possibly Low 7-C+ ((Downscaling from Shigaraki’s lowest possibility) immensely stronger than his 30%, can restrain and take a direct hit from Shigaraki)
Shigaraki AP: At least 7-C, possibly Low 7-B (Is only 75% complete, and is noted to be weaker than All Might by his doctor. Has AFO’s quirks, including Air Cannon. Able to one shot Pro Heroes like Ryukyu with mere shockwaves.)
Endeavor durability: At least 7-C, possibly Low 7-B (can take numerous hits from Shigaraki)
45% Deku stats: (8-A) higher, possibly Low 7-C+ ((Downscaling from Shigaraki’s lowest possibility) immensely stronger than his 30%, can restrain and take a direct hit from Shigaraki)
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To be honest, I'm more in favor of Shigaraki being fully Low 7-B, but I'd be willing to compromise with what you suggested.
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I agree with that it’s kinda just way safer that way plus it Should please everyone I just hope shiggy can just get a more concrete feat soon
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- Thread starter
- #143
I don't mind that rating either if everyone else agrees.
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I’m fine with that rating for them.
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- Thread starter
- #146
I do agree with that, I don't actually see what the issue is with 45% being Tier 7, unless I'm missing something.
Shigaraki was unable to break out of Blackwhip, and he couldn't hit him off.
Shigaraki was unable to break out of Blackwhip, and he couldn't hit him off.
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By the way, since All Might was getting weaker and weaker over time, is it really crazy to think that he was only Town level at Kamino? Maybe Endeavor and Shigaraki should just scale to that 7-C feat, instead of assuming Kamino All Might was as strong as in the first movie.
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I didn’t want to fully scale 45% to Shiggy in case it started another debate, after all I’m trying to be safe, but I suppose just fully scaling him is fine if we’re saying all of them are 7-C.
And 7-C Kamino AM doesn’t sound crazy at all since he’s gotten way weaker over time from the movie to post forest training. If anything, the movie gives more support that he’s weaker since he went plus ultra and shortened his time limit further.
So Kamino AFO and AM are 7-C, scaling from AFO’s casual Air Cannon, and Endeavor, Shigaraki and 45% scale to that. This doesn’t contradict the statements that Shigaraki is AM level from the heroes perspective, and lines up with the Doctor saying he’s not quite AM level.
And 7-C Kamino AM doesn’t sound crazy at all since he’s gotten way weaker over time from the movie to post forest training. If anything, the movie gives more support that he’s weaker since he went plus ultra and shortened his time limit further.
So Kamino AFO and AM are 7-C, scaling from AFO’s casual Air Cannon, and Endeavor, Shigaraki and 45% scale to that. This doesn’t contradict the statements that Shigaraki is AM level from the heroes perspective, and lines up with the Doctor saying he’s not quite AM level.
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- Thread starter
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I did bring that up as an option, but I believed that no one would accept it.
So obviously I agree with that as well.
So obviously I agree with that as well.
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I must not have seen that, apologies.
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So AM and AFO would upscale from the 7C feat but are still 7C right?
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Yeah
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Regarding Air Cannon, when Shigaraki was being held by Deku, he mentioned that even Aizawa was bound to flinch, and then used a huge shock wave to escape from Deku's grasp, implying he had used a Quirk. Since as far as we know Air Cannon is the only Quirk he possesses that can create such shock waves, is it safe to assume that Shigaraki used Air Cannon to propel himself at that moment?
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- #155
Maybe, I actually don't know how Shigaraki could've escaped Izuku's grip there, especially when he couldn't do it before.
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If Kamino all might is gonna be rated 7-C I think we need another key for all might as Movie 1 all might who is also in the weakened All might Key is way stronger then Kamino All might
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If Shiggy didn’t use a quirk there, than idk how else he got out of that grip. Aizawa prob flinched, immediately looked again to prevent regen, but in that timeframe Shiggy used Air Cannon.
And besides even that, when Deku used his Texas Smash, Shiggy blasted him with Air Cannon directly to try and kill him. That’s probably why he remarked immediately after that he needed to find a quirk that could beat Deku, because Air Cannon wasn’t doing anything. Deku is only using 100% on his limbs, so 45% would have had to take that hit.
And besides even that, when Deku used his Texas Smash, Shiggy blasted him with Air Cannon directly to try and kill him. That’s probably why he remarked immediately after that he needed to find a quirk that could beat Deku, because Air Cannon wasn’t doing anything. Deku is only using 100% on his limbs, so 45% would have had to take that hit.
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Makes sense
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- Thread starter
- #160
That's fine by me I guess, a little unsure but I cannot see any other way he would've escape Blackwhip.
Though I always thought that either Izuku's Texas Smash and Shigaraki's attack clashed and his Air Cannon was blown away, or he didn't get a chance to fire it.
Though I always thought that either Izuku's Texas Smash and Shigaraki's attack clashed and his Air Cannon was blown away, or he didn't get a chance to fire it.
