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Prime Hawks = Hood ≈ Endeavor < Weakened All Might ≈ Weakened All For One according to our scaling
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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18
- Thread starter TheRustyOne
- Start date
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Prime hawks> Hood>=Endeavor>Usj Nomu=usj all might>kamino all might> weakened all for one.
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According to our scale, Kamino AM is still above Endeavor:
“Somewhat weaker than in his weakened form, but still stronger and more powerful than Endeavor”
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Assuming all of the speed calcs get accepted, we’d end up with MHS top tiers and MHS+ god tiers
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- Thread starter
- #20,805
How is Weakened AFO inferior to Endeavor? Or do you mean weakened with the Quirks rebellion against him? Weakened AFO normally is superior to Endeavor.
USJ All Might and Kamino are basically the same. We have no reason to assume there is any noticeable difference in physical ability. In the upcoming CRT, I want All Might's Weakened and Two Heroes/Hideout Raid key to be fused together. Prime | Wounded | Weakened
Endeavor didn't blitz AFO, that was Hawks' feathers boosting him along with his own speed. Even than AFO was able to react and defended himself. AFO was shocked because he wasn't expecting that sudden speed boost from Endeavor, and his awareness is also being delayed from the rebellion of his Quirks.
Hawks is still faster than Endeavor, yet AFO is easily keeping up with him. In fact Hawks admits to being unable to dodge his Air Cannon at a certain range.
There is no point where Endeavor is superior to All Might in anything, obvious when All Might still had powers I mean.
Also we can't use Hypersonic reactions, being vastly faster than Supersonic means Supersonic. Nothing more and nothing less. Well assuming dodging confirmed Supersonic things count as having Supersonic reactions, which I assume would be alright.
USJ All Might and Kamino are basically the same. We have no reason to assume there is any noticeable difference in physical ability. In the upcoming CRT, I want All Might's Weakened and Two Heroes/Hideout Raid key to be fused together. Prime | Wounded | Weakened
Endeavor didn't blitz AFO, that was Hawks' feathers boosting him along with his own speed. Even than AFO was able to react and defended himself. AFO was shocked because he wasn't expecting that sudden speed boost from Endeavor, and his awareness is also being delayed from the rebellion of his Quirks.
Hawks is still faster than Endeavor, yet AFO is easily keeping up with him. In fact Hawks admits to being unable to dodge his Air Cannon at a certain range.
There is no point where Endeavor is superior to All Might in anything, obvious when All Might still had powers I mean.
Also we can't use Hypersonic reactions, being vastly faster than Supersonic means Supersonic. Nothing more and nothing less. Well assuming dodging confirmed Supersonic things count as having Supersonic reactions, which I assume would be alright.
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I used Hypersonic reactions because of the Hawks and Mirko statements, as they’re faster than futuristic planes and the current fastest planes can move at hypersonic speeds
Also Endeavor got boosted by Hawks AFTER the blitz
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Endeavor isn't superior to All Might in anything. Even weakened All Might.
His speed over AFO comes from a boost from Hawks'feathers and even then AFO had no issue defending.
In both the Hood fight and now AFO, Endeavor received speed boosts from Hawks.
Also AFO was basically nerfed twice just for Endeavor to dominate: broken mask + rebelling quirks which lowered his reactions and even made it difficult for him to move his body.
His speed over AFO comes from a boost from Hawks'feathers and even then AFO had no issue defending.
In both the Hood fight and now AFO, Endeavor received speed boosts from Hawks.
Also AFO was basically nerfed twice just for Endeavor to dominate: broken mask + rebelling quirks which lowered his reactions and even made it difficult for him to move his body.
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All For One didn’t defend himself: if you reread the beginning chapter, his arms are in the same position that they were in the first panel, when he used the forcefield to block an Endeavor hit. The fact that he literally didn’t move and his exclamation was of surprise proves it was a blitz
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- Thread starter
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This is just wrong. You can see Hawks feathers on him before Hawks says the too slow comment. Also you're ignoring the fact AFO is being hindered as well.
Being faster than a plane doesn't mean they're Hypersonic. That is not how that works. We don't assume that the plane is a super hypersonic jet.
AFO literally raised his hands above his head to block the attack. His hands were in front of his face beforehand. He raised it up to block Endeavor's overhead punch.
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You’re misunderstanding the chronology of the events: before Endeavor reaches AFO, there is no sign of the feathers whatsoever. In the immediate moment he reaches AFO, the feathers aren’t there. We see Hawks add the feathers in the panel right after, likely to help him with an upcoming attack.
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What are you even talking about right now? That was before he "blitzed" AFO like you're claiming, that has no relevance to this discussion. Unless you believe Endeavor stopped in mid air instantly and threw that punch down incredibly slowly. AFO blocked his punch and then blocked his charge from the sky. Endeavor cannot blitz AFO period.
AFO reacted to his punch, which clearly shows he wasn't blitzed. He wouldn't be able to block that strike if he was blitzed. Your reaching really hard.
I think you're confused about something. We see AFO is shocked that Endeavor was suddenly in front of him, and then we see that this was because of Hawks' feather giving him a boost. Obviously Endeavor is not that fast, we already saw beforehand that he was capable of reacting to Endeavor when he punched through his Rivet Stab.
Endeavor himself knew he had to break AFO's defense down first, because AFO is fast enough to guard himself from his Prominence Burn.
I don't see how you believe Hawks' feathers helped him punch AFO into the ground. This is a clear reference to what happen previously against Hood, Hawks uses his feathers to push Endeavor so he can get close to land a hit.
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No, I’m saying that him appearing in front of AFO from that far away WAS the blitz. The Vanishing Fist and the sky attack are irrelevant to my point, I didn’t even mention them in the blog
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Why is he more powerful than Endeavor?
Endeavor scales to people who are confirmed above USJ All Might, Usj All might being superior to Kamino.
Endeavor~HEN>Usj Nomu=Usj All Might> Kamino All Might
I’m referring to All For One from Kamino. The scaling chain presented by the series depict Endeavor above that variation of Afo, current Afo should be superior to his Kamino self.
Even now, I wouldn’t say this Afo is superior to Endeavor.
But there is a difference and it’s pointed out by All Might himself.
I don’t remember the context but wasn’t he so slow that it took him 30 seconds to travel 5km?
Regardless, point is that he IS weaker, we can’t quantify whether it’s a large gap or a big one, but it’s large enough for All Might to consider it a problem.
Fusing them together based off the idea that there’s no main difference between them is just based off assumption. They’re stated weaker, we treat them that way. That’s how it’s always been.
His awareness was fixed at that point, he had put his quirks down. We see this happen as they all backed off and he’s seen eating one of them. And immediately after he’s capable of moving and using his quirks again, and to a large degree. Unless the series implies that his quirks were still rebelling I don’t see the reason of assuming they were and he couldn’t use his quirks at peak performance.
And AFO was clearly blitz, Endeavor was about a dozen meters away, and traveled all the way to his face before AFO let off any reaction.
If he was surprised by a speed boost, this reaction would have been made before he had made it all the way to his face, he would have put up his shield quirk before he traveled this distance as well. Instead Endeavor traveled several meters to AFO before AFO gave off a reaction. Afo only reacted due to Endeavor losing momentum, the feathers burning up was symbolizing this. He lost momentum and Afo noticed that he was right in front of him. And then he reacted.
Hawks is faster than Afo lol.
So Endeavor physically overpowering entities stronger than usj all might who> kamino all might means nothing, alright
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- Thread starter
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And he magically slowed down so AFO could block his strike, yeah that make perfect sense.
This "blitz" was the result of Hawks and Endeavor together. Even than he still blocked Endeavor's attack. Meaning he isn't blitzing fast. Also you're still ignoring the fact that AFO isn't at his 100% here, he's being slowed down by his Quirks rebelling against him. As shown when he failed to dodge/block Dark Shadow's attack.
AFO even says his body isn't moving as he commands.
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It would literally just mean that Endeavor’s actual attack speed is inferior to his movement speed lol, OR that he took a second to prepare his attack lol. It could mean a variety of things
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Kamino All Might is stronger than Kamino AFO, since he can equal his Air Cannon Combination while holding back. And Kamino AFO was shown to be superior to Endeavor, being able to block his attacks and fatally injure him. Hawks is faster than Endeavor, yet admits he can't avoid AFO's Air Cannon at a certain range.
Which wasn't point blank range.
AFO's rivet stab ripped off Endeavor's arm and go through him, while those same Rivet Stabs don't even pierce through All Might.
The gap between USJ All Might and Kamino All Might is tiny.
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The Dark Shadow attack occurred when he was attacked in the vestige world: but the issue was solved when he ate the vestige, and ended up blitzing Tokoyami, Hawks and Jirou with Rivet Stab
Endeavor blitzing AFO occurred after he solved the issue in the vestige world and was somewhat back to normal
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He literally says while Endeavor is dragging him that his body isn't moving as he commands it.
He is still being affected by it.
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191/2 = Mach 95.5 for each (is that how we treat combined attacks when it comes to speed? idk)
Since it was done in their literal weakest states it’s still fair enough to upscale their normal forms to MHS
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- Thread starter
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Assuming a blitz, Hawks would indeed upscale. Endeavor would not, nothing suggest he was weaker or slower. Being injured wouldn't change the speed of his fire.
Hawks is stated to be slower, and isn't in his prime anymore.
However I also pointed out that Hypersonic speed is absurd. You have not provided proof that the plane Jeanist was in was going Hypersonic speed. Especially considering this was a cargo plane designed to hold giant cargo. Which usually don't go all that fast.
Being a plane from the future doesn't automatically mean Hypersonic or faster than all planes in reality. You need evidence for that.
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He fatally injured Endeavor during Kamino? When did this happen? Now during the Kamino fight I can agree that he was blocking Endeavor’s attacks, but this Endeavor wasn’t using any form of flashfire attacks (I don’t even think Horikoshi thought of them at the time) so it’s not like he was overpowering his strongest attacks only casual fire balls.
His flashfire attacks are his flames being boosted to their max capacity.
Hawk’s outpaced AFO on 3 different occasions, even with him being capable of of sensing everything from a 360 degree angle.
The air canon scenario only means,
1. Air canon is probably faster than hawks but it’s not like Afo would scale to this aircanon.
2. Hawks at the time of Afo getting ready to shoot the attack was sitting idle in the air and didn’t have enough time to accelerate to a speed capable of dodging it. Regardless, Hawks saw his rivets attacks and managed to go all the way from Afo, to the kids to protect them faster than the rivets could.
There’s no reason to assume this Afo is at the same level as the one from Kamino. The sheer intensity of the attack depicts it being more powerful, Afo presenting a different capacity of quirks would also imply that he has better and more powerful quirks, along with him using stuff in this fight that he hasn’t even been using against All Might.
Him having no reason to use these quirks if they weren’t superior to what he has been using.
Even when being pressured by Endeavor he doesn’t use his ultimate whatever thingy to put an end to everything right then and there.
It’s practically established that this AFO is stronger, especially when Endeavor can one shot something capable of tanking a kick from mirko, which can Rip all might levels of power apart like butter.
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That is not how anything you said works at all. AFO is not stronger, nor is there any statement of him being superior to faster than before.
AFO will not be receiving a new key, you are aware of that correct?
You literally saying AFO's rivet stab against Endeavor looks cooler so it should be stronger. When that is not how that works. AFO can't use the same Quirks against Endeavor, because the Quirks he used in Kamino were meant to counter All Might. He even states impact recoil is useless here because Endeavor damages with heat.
He's being smart and using Quirks that fit the situation. AFO is not considered to be stronger/faster without a direct statement. He'll be treated as the same as Kamino AFO. Especially considering he was in prison for a majority of this time, and there was no mention in universe that he was stealing Quirks.
So no, AFO is not stronger. He already has hundreds, if not thousands of Quirks, him showing off new abilities doesn't mean he's magically increased in power.
Kamino AFO is superior to Endeavor, there is no getting around this. USJ All Might is not even stronger than Kamino All Might, the difference between them would be nothing. Even Prime All Might is clearly not meant to be leaps and bounds above Kamino All Might.
Also Kamino AFO blew away Endeavor and shut off his flames, while All Might stood his ground and didn't move. Clearly Endeavor is superior to both of them.
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Couldn’t I use 45% Deku keeping up with Nagant’s bullets? We use 1422 m/s (high end Supersonic+) as a placeholder, as it’s the speed of the fastest sniper bullet in the real world even though it’s obviously much faster than that. If I do the calculation but replace Hypersonic reactions with Supersonic+ (1/1422), I end up with Mach 157. Still MHS
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I don't know how this wiki treats thing like that. All I can say is that Hypersonic is no good. Ask someone who is more familiar with how this stuff works.
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I’ll edit the calculation then and change it to Nagant bullet speed reactions
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- #20,828
Please note that there is another calc that have been accepted that'll make them MHS regardless. Mach 466 to 595
Unless someone finds a issue with it. To be honest I'm not really look all that deeply at calcs, just listening to what is stated here and vaguely skimming a page.
Unless someone finds a issue with it. To be honest I'm not really look all that deeply at calcs, just listening to what is stated here and vaguely skimming a page.
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Solid enough, I’m just looking for supporting feats
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I left a comment there but can someone remind me why we use a distance of 35 meters when we cannot see where's Deku after he was launched?
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Apparently this calc of Deku and Bakugo's Double Detroit Smash is also wrong since the shockwave had already crossed the screen in the first frame.
We have a lot of work to do...
We have a lot of work to do...
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So is it faster or slower?
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- #20,833
Well darn it.
Basically we don't see the movement of the air pressure in a way that we can calc. Meaning slower at best or impossible at worst.
There is this calc for Number 6 that'd put him at MHS. Which means the Hypersonic+ character would become High Hypersonic+. Unless there is an issue here as well?
And Bakugo's feat in the new chapter might be pretty good.
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This would actually help with consistency if the Mach 500 Deku calc gets accepted, because the previous issue with the calc was Overhaul at Mach 54 not being able to perceive Deku at Mach 60
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Already calced it at Mach 400-500, but unfortunately it’d be a supporting feat at best since it doesn’t scale to anyone besides the god tiers
We need better MHS stuff for the mid tiers
Mapl3Sy4up
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Oh hey that’s mine = D
yeah even then, my other calc got approved, two ends of it (cause it could be two different spikes using it), so yeah MHS Deku would already be there
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Also why do all the actually intriguing discussions happen when I’m at work
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Made another calc. I have no idea of the validity of this feat, I made the calc in like 5 minutes lol. Lmk if you guys can review it
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