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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

Gitagon said:
Nothing impressive about kicking through stone, as for steel, the movies exagerrate feats all the time.
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Except for the fact that Deku scales above most of his class with 5% Full Cowling. And what is with this bullshit about the movies exaggerating feats again? Until you provide concrete evidence, they don't exaggerate much of the scaling. We've been over this in like, five threads already and I'm getting sick of it.

AtomicSekiro said:
Compared to a normal human it’s downright superhuman. A handgun wouldn’t send you flying back several feet.
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There are handguns that are capable of doing that. Most notably, revolvers can produce up to 4000 joules of energy.
 
The movies exaggerate the f out of the scaling compared to the manga tho, at their respective levels in power. Manga Deku never spear kicks through anything comparable to several METRES of SOLID STEEL in the manga at 5%, and 20% Deku never creates a wind pressure shockwave several times larger than a city block. Not even 45% Deku could do that.

Hell 20% Deku doesn’t even replicate the same feat in the same movie. It’s almost like some scenes can be outliers.

But I guess the counterpoint is: “air pressure isn’t consistent so the feat is perfectly valid and not an outlier.”
 
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AOE can't be used as an argument against something unless the story itself says so.

75% Shigaraki doesn't even produce AOE anywhere near this, not even half of it. But Endeavor, who saw this feat, still confidently states Shigaraki is as strong as All Might. Using AOE, Re-Destro is superior as well since his shockwave is bigger than that. So Re-Destro is stronger than Kamino All Might and AFO, he's stronger than Shigaraki?

(I wouldn't be surprised if he scaled to 45% Izuku or something, but right now nothing puts him at that level)

Not having their every attack produce the same level of damage, doesn't mean much.

However I do find the 20% feat wrong, either it needs to be recalced or it's impossible to calc. Despite the wind pressure, none of the trees are actually shown to be destroyed when the scene cuts back to the ground. Also a 20 PSI shockwave (With a radius over 100 meters) would've obliterates those trees, and made a large clearing.

Izuku's shockwave only uprooted some trees and send them flying, though like I said the scene right afterwards doesn't shown any destruction to any trees at all.

Actually wait, why assume those are tree crowns at all? Those could be branches, not the entire tree. 8-A 20% wouldn't be a outlier, but I don't think the current calc is usable.
 
Remember when All Might and Deku came to the “shocking” realisation that All Might did not move around at 100% at all times, because “every little action would create those wind blasts!”

But apparently 45% is ≈ All Might now and he can bounce around at max speed and not even harm the nearby raindrops. But ok.

According to someone I brought up the 20% feat topic, apparently the “mistake” is that no trees were harmed in the longer, more consistent shot after the giant shockwave, not the few-frame shockwave itself. Because that makes sense…?
 
“Bakugo is fodder to Deku now. Bakugo can’t keep up.”



People forget that Bakugo was literally RIGHT BEHIND 45% Deku when he charged Shigaraki. For the most part, they’re still roughly on the same level, Deku just has a massive boost move with Fa Jin right now.
 
Bakugo is likely not fodder to 45%, we just have no reason to scale him to it. We can't say he should scales because reasons.

100% Izuku jumps and doesn't produce any kind of shockwave during the USJ or Entrance Exam. Guess 100% Izuku was thousands of times weaker than All Might? Guess Endeavor is wrong even though he clearly saw how big a shockwave All Might can make, everyone saw it. So he's just wrong about Shigaraki?

100% Full Cowl doesn't really produce any kind of shockwave in the Yakuza Arc when he moves. Even though that's Izuku spreading 100% evenly around his entire body, it's not 100% Full Cowl if he isn't doing that. In fact the 100% Full Cowl kick against Chisaki had far less shockwave than the 100% kick he used underground by accident.

We cannot accept AOE in any type of fiction, even Izuku and All Might say that doesn't make it possible when Horikoshi cannot draw their power consistently. No author can do this, not unless his series doesn't involve any super humans.
 
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AtomicSekiro said:
Remember when All Might and Deku came to the “shocking” realisation that All Might did not move around at 100% at all times, because “every little action would create those wind blasts!”

But apparently 45% is ≈ All Might now and he can bounce around at max speed and not even harm the nearby raindrops. But ok.

According to someone I brought up the 20% feat topic, apparently the “mistake” is that no trees were harmed in the longer, more consistent shot after the giant shockwave, not the few-frame shockwave itself. Because that makes sense…?
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It is not that scaling is thrown out of wack or that All Might, or whoever else who made that claim, was speaking nonsense about him destroying stuff with his presence with 100%, its probably more so just that the author of the series forgets or does not care to keep things in line. And that would make sense from a narrative standpoint since it would not be much of an interesting fight with 75% Shigaraki and 45% Deku keeps blowing everyone miles away.

Or if Shiggy just blew Endeavor to a skyscraper by accident, which obviously never happened.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Actually wait, why assume those are tree crowns at all? Those could be branches, not the entire tree. 8-A 20% wouldn't be a outlier, but I don't think the current calc is usable.
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Before even making the calc we checked the scene frame by frame to confirm if those were really trees and, indeed, they had trunks.

The later scene where no damage is shown was also discussed, and we came to the conclusion that it was just a scenery error similar to what happened with All Might's feat in the anime. I find it hard to believe you didn't saw any of this.

Also, for the calculation I used one of the larger fragments on the screen, if I used the smaller ones and assumed they were branches I would likely still get similar results.
 
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I never saw that, can you show a picture of tree trunks. I saw some wood pieces connect to them, but I don't see what makes them trunks instead of branches.

Note: My memory could be failing me, but I have no recollection of discussing this.
 
Well that's weird, but just in case I re-measured the explosion using the smallest two-pixel fragments on the screen and assumed they were leaves, and I still got results reaching almost a hundred meters long.
 
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Really? If even using leaves gives those results than I guess that's fine actually.

The aftermath destruction is still in question, but I won't argue against the calc with that.
 
The best explanation is that Deku may not have always been using 100% every time he broke his limbs. Maybe he was using 20, 30, 50, etc etc. He had no control. Hell, his own reaction speed could keep up with his movement after jumping at 100%, which leans credence to the idea that he’s not always going that fast, unless BASE DEKU now has 100% All Might level reaction speed.

The “the background is wrong, even though it’s way more consistent between every scene, it’s the 5 frame long explosion that’s correct” argument is funny to me. It’s an outlier either way.
 
“In the past, it was as if the little explosions were contained in your body. But this time they made their way to the surface.”

Can someone explain what exactly this means? I don’t really understand it. Like, why was that a better outcome than when the explosions were contained??
 
Earthyboy said:
Except for the fact that Deku scales above most of his class with 5% Full Cowling. And what is with this bullshit about the movies exaggerating feats again? Until you provide concrete evidence, they don't exaggerate much of the scaling. We've been over this in like, five threads already and I'm getting sick of it.


There are handguns that are capable of doing that. Most notably, revolvers can produce up to 4000 joules of energy.
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Of course he physically scales above most 1A with 5%, he has a strength enhancer quirk while they don't apart from Sato. However a lot of characters can achieve breaking through rocks with their own quirks: Bakugo, Sato, Kirishima, Tetsutetsu, Shoto, Tokoyami, etc can all do that. Mina can melt rock, Aoyama can penetrate rock. The rock breaking is not special and most characters can achieve it in their own way.
 
AtomicSekiro said:
“In the past, it was as if the little explosions were contained in your body. But this time they made their way to the surface.”

Can someone explain what exactly this means? I don’t really understand it. Like, why was that a better outcome than when the explosions were contained??
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Cause when they are contained it's like a bomb going off in Deku's arms. If they make it to the surface it basically means his bones and tendons suffered way less damage than they faced in previous incidents.
 
Made a sandbox labeling most of the strength and speed ratings of the characters. Remember this is written by Horikoshi, making this 100% Canon.

There's a good reason why we don't accept these ratings. Some things I noticed while writing this down.

Hood is apparently slower than both Endeavor and Hawks. Weaker than Endeavor also, yeah his flames can kill him. But in universe he had Endeavor say Hood was stronger than him. So I find it really funny that he'd label his power below Endeavor, especially when he overpowered him.

Gran Torino is very weak, only D in strength. He knocked out Magne in one hit, who is B in power, but can block punches from Tiger who is apparently A in power. I didn't realize being distracted would lower someone's durability by so much.

Geten can destroy a city block with his ice but is only a B in power. Tiger (A), Rappa (A), Shishida (A), Tamaki (A), and Kendo are stronger than Geten confirmed? This isn't talking about his physical strength either since it's equal with Dabi's rating. Unless we're saying Dabi has B physical strength, or Geten's physical strength matches Dabi's fire?

This guy Tengai, apparently he's just as strong as Mirio. It isn't talking about his barriers, since those are strong enough to block Rappa's attacks.
 
A lot of those ratings just mix things up. Some do make sense relative to each other like the students ratings but I feel there should have been several separate categories: A. Students B. Heroes C. Villains

Another way would be to define the strength/power aspect better and separate the different types of strength whether it's physical strength or the attack power of ones quirk. Defence could have been it's own separate be category. For speed maybe differentiate base speed (Stain, Aizawa), Quirk assisted speed, Reaction speed and Movement Speed.

But again I know mangaka don't really think too hard about stuff like this. I'm not really expecting any detailed power ratings for the series.
 
For pro heroes if you just consider them separately without considering villains or students, those ratings do make sense in a way. It's when all the characters including students and villains get mixed up that things are thrown into chaos.

Looking at it again, a lot of inconsistencies are with the villains, even the students don't have much inconsistency based on where they were back then in the story.
 
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Unfortunately, nothing in the book states that's how we have to look at the ratings. I imagine Horikoshi just doesn't care about how strong a certain character is unless it comes up in the story. He probably didn't even write this all at once, and I doubt he was making sure everything was consistent with who scales to who.

Though Hood is way too blatant, I don't understand how you can rank him slower than Hawks and Endeavor so maybe that has more merit than I think.

Cementoss is B+ while Tiger is labeled as A, I don't really see how that makes sense considering Tiger has no strength enhancing Quirk. Unless this means his physical strength, but that'd be weird since Cementoss isn't shown to fight physically. And his B+ is slightly higher than Geten's B, which is actually consistent since he beat Geten.

Tiger and Magne scale to each other, which means Magne B strength is equal to Pros A rank?

Aizawa is Rank C, stronger than Gran Torino who is Rank D. So anyone who is D rank or above scales to Gran Torino, and is capable of this? So Aizawa can break concrete like this, along with Edgeshot, Hawks, Vlad King, and Snipe. (I doubt Snipe's rating is for a gun, but I guess pistols in MHA can do this)

Like I'm ignoring calcs here, and this doesn't add up. Since even Ragdoll is apparently comparable in strength to Gran Torino. And it's really weird to assume this doesn't mean his Quirk, since he uses his Quirk for propulsion to increase the power of his attacks.

Yeah we have to jump through way too many hoops to make these ratings make sense (Still has problems), and I doubt they were made with serious scaling in mind.
 
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TheRustyOne said:
Unfortunately, nothing in the book states that's how we have to look at the ratings. I imagine Horikoshi just doesn't care about how strong a certain character is unless it comes up in the story. He probably didn't even write this all at once, and I doubt he was making sure everything was consistent with who scales to who.

Though Hood is way too blatant, I don't understand how you can rank him slower than Hawks and Endeavor so maybe that has more merit than I think.

Cementoss is B+ while Tiger is labeled as A, I don't really see how that makes sense considering Tiger has no strength enhancing Quirk. Unless this means his physical strength, but that'd be weird since Cementoss isn't shown to fight physically. And his B+ is slightly higher than Geten's B, which is actually consistent since he beat Geten.

Tiger and Magne scale to each other, which means Magne B strength is equal to Pros A rank?

Aizawa is Rank C, stronger than Gran Torino who is Rank D. So anyone who is D rank or above scales to Gran Torino, and is capable of this? So Aizawa can break concrete like this, along with Edgeshot, Hawks, Vlad King, and Snipe. (I doubt Snipe's rating is for a gun, but I guess pistols in MHA can do this)

Like I'm ignoring calcs here, and this doesn't add up. Since even Ragdoll is apparently comparable in strength to Gran Torino. And it's really weird to assume this doesn't mean his Quirk, since he uses his Quirk for propulsion to increase the power of his attacks.

Yeah we have to jump through way too many hoops to make these ratings make sense (Still has problems), and I doubt they were made with serious scaling in mind.
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For some of these, I guess it depends on when it was written. We didn't know Cementoss was a powerhouse until war arc.

For the villains they are indeed very inconsistent but I still feel the hero ratings and student ratings looked at in a vacuum do make sense for most of them.

I think for Gran Torino for example, his "power" comes from his speed and acceleration so maybe Hori thought giving him a max in speed was enough but again it is indeed not convincing but out of that hero list there's only 2 or 3 I would disagree with.

Apart from Torino there aren't many outliers in the heroes side. I'd say the students side is also perfect.

The villlains' side has a lot of outliers like Stain being too high, Geten and Dabi being too low and there's also a lot of hax or situational quirks on the villains' side (Overhaul) that seem hard to rank.
 
Gitagon said:
Of course he physically scales above most 1A with 5%, he has a strength enhancer quirk while they don't apart from Sato. However a lot of characters can achieve breaking through rocks with their own quirks: Bakugo, Sato, Kirishima, Tetsutetsu, Shoto, Tokoyami, etc can all do that. Mina can melt rock, Aoyama can penetrate rock. The rock breaking is not special and most characters can achieve it in their own way.
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Here's where your logic falls apart.

Bakugo, Shoto, Tokoyami are some of the strongest members in 1-A. Mina can only melt rock with her quirk, and Aoyama only has his laser. Deku still outclasses most of his class vastly in terms of power.
 
What is the list of Class 1-A students—who aren't Shoto or Midoriya—who'd have a fair shot against Dabi? Must be more than just 3 students.
 
Bakugo. He has speed, minor heat resistance, & long range attacks.

End of the list. Without speed and a long range attack no one else is getting through Dabi's Flashfire which can be kept on for a significant period like armor.

Unbreakable might be able to tank regular Dabi flames but FlashFire is a whole other beast. Iida doesn't have a way to get close. Tokoyami's weakness is light. Maybe Jiro has a small chance since her attack is sound and fire can't really counter sound but she would be vulnerable to Dabi's AOE too.
 
Earthyboy said:
Here's where your logic falls apart.

Bakugo, Shoto, Tokoyami are some of the strongest members in 1-A. Mina can only melt rock with her quirk, and Aoyama only has his laser. Deku still outclasses most of his class vastly in terms of power.
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A lot of this still depends on when this was written. Some characters got way stronger while since then while others stagnated.

Anyway I wasn't arguing it was perfect or correct. I can see the issues. Just some things were a bit consistent.
 
Gitagon said:
A lot of this still depends on when this was written. Some characters got way stronger while since then while others stagnated.
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It's unfair to compare 5% Deku to people who have had the same amount of training as a Deku who's capable of reaching 45% of OFA.
 
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