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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

The discussion already moved, but I do believe that Endeavor and characters on his level are around on Kamino Might levels of strength.
Even if it may feel like there was a huge gap between them, instances such as Endeavor matching a charged Air Cannon from AFO that was meant for All Might is already telling, and the PLW arc pretty much was intended to take that supposed gap behind us.
 
Metalballrun said:
The discussion already moved, but I do believe that Endeavor and characters on his level are around on Kamino Might levels of strength.
Even if it may feel like there was a huge gap between them, instances such as Endeavor matching a charged Air Cannon from AFO that was meant for All Might is already telling, and the PLW arc pretty much was intended to take that supposed gap behind us.
Click to expand...
Most people agree, but yeah the Pro-Heroes and a few U.A. students are definitely on his level.
 
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She apparently collapsed after launching Ryukyu and the others underground. Rather disappointing, but what would've happen had she not passed out and could still fight?

Isn't she like the worst match up for Overhaul? (Not including his last fusion)
 
If you look at her profile, she has two keys.

As a student, it's not unreasonable to assume she is training and improving her Quirk. So it was agreed that the scaling to the NHE would be for a second key.
 
Do you need any shockwave/air manipulation to clear out smoke ? Lady nagant and Muscular all have way higher AP than Bakugou but they weren't fully able to disperse smoke screen like he could
 
AP does not equal AOE, having AP on a certain level doesn't grant any kind of AOE.

If your attacks aren't shown to produce shockwaves, you will not get shockwave/air manipulation.
 
Deku should ask todoroki and Bakugou on how to compress smoke screen and release it in concentrated spot, don't know how much force concentrated smoke would pack though
Maybe he could use it as an omnidirectional jetpack instead of solely relying on air pressure
 
Metalballrun said:
The discussion already moved, but I do believe that Endeavor and characters on his level are around on Kamino Might levels of strength.
Even if it may feel like there was a huge gap between them, instances such as Endeavor matching a charged Air Cannon from AFO that was meant for All Might is already telling, and the PLW arc pretty much was intended to take that supposed gap behind us.
Click to expand...
i think even kamino All might is twice as strong than endeavor, It is an existing gap but not so exaggerated, because All Might is not only weakened, but it is with only OFA remains. And AFO is not only weakened, but he is fighting with only a copy of his original quirk. I think it's consistent that way, All might in kamino is not necessarily massively weaker than in the fight against usj nomu or Wolfram, and someone at the level of USJ nomu left Endeavor seriously injured. One might think that the High Ends being superior to USJ Nomu could bring problems to that logic, but I dont think so. Endeavor defeated Hood with the help of hawks to be faster and with attacks based on heat, not impacts, and mirko faced High Ends that were not stabilized, also, let's be honest, the panel where it is said that the High Ends are superior to the upper tier nomus also says that the upper tier have the strength of 10 people, it is likely that USJ Nomu is almost a High end, I can't imagine the stats of the high ends being much higher than 1.01x to USJ Nomu
 
It actually says that those in the Upper-Tier are at least as strong as ten average people. Which means the weakest Upper-Tier Nomu are as strong as ten average people combined, it does not say in general. Hood only greatly injured Endeavor because he used a sharp attack, this is a cut, not a bruise from a punch or standard impact. Someone 2X weaker than Endeavor can inflict identical damage with a sharp weapon. Hood never punches Endeavor, he just throws him around.

We don't see how much damage this does because Endeavor is resisting the throw with his propulsion. Shigaraki did less damage than Hood, but that's because his attack was a punch, not a cut. Give him a sword arm and I wouldn't be surprised if he could do far more damage.

In terms of power, I personally believe Kamino All Might stronger. But in terms of durability, I think the two are very close. Considering Endeavor considers Shigaraki to be equal to All Might, and narratively it makes sense for Shigaraki to be stronger. A punch from Hood would've done less damage than the punch from Shigaraki.
 
hey guys, now that I notice, isn't the USJ nomu supposed to have the dna of 4 different people? That implies the possession of 4 quirks, we know that it has regeneration and absorption shock, but wouldn't it be probable that those two other quirks are one of strength and one of speed?

That could give another possibility to the whole "high ends have better stats" thing.
The High End could have better genetic improvements to their stats, without quirks, than the USJ Nomu, but the quirks that Ujiko chose for the USJ Nomu to try to deal with All might could just make a better combination of power, we know there are quirks of strength that easily raise your AP to MCB +, while there are others that only leave you in building level.

USJ Nomu could still be close to All might with only genetic enhancements, but not "equal" without the help of the quirks. The same with Shigaraki, which would still be consistent with Ujiko's words.

Wouldn't it be logical that the USJ nomu has a better selection of quirks, being made for a specific purpose, than the High Ends, which are mass-made?

Of course, this is just an idea that I thought, I'm not saying it's the most likely idea or anything
 
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Introducing new DNA would not give them multiple Quirks, nor is it proof of multiple Quirks, this is stated by Tsukauchi. They have multiple Quirks because AFO transplanted the Quirks into the Nomu. While Garaki can transplant Quirks, the effort/time it takes isn't good enough for mass production. It was the main reason why High-End production had slowed down so much.

He usually just had AFO transfer the Quirks.

Aizawa stated the USJ Nomu was as strong as All Might, even without Quirks. "Looking at any part of his body should be enough to nullify him... That means... This is his base strength! He's easily as strong as All Might..."

And Aizawa was right, the Nomu was equal to USJ All Might until he went Plus Ultra.

Considering Garaki stated he could've given Shigaraki All Might level strength, but didn't so he wouldn't overburden his brain, I'm positive the USJ Nomu strength is All Might level without any Quirks.
 
Ultimate_Invader_Pendulum said:
hey guys, now that I notice, isn't the USJ nomu supposed to have the dna of 4 different people? That implies the possession of 4 quirks, we know that it has regeneration and absorption shock, but wouldn't it be probable that those two other quirks are one of strength and one of speed?

. . .
Click to expand...
There is a lot more to Quirks than just raw genetics. There are muliple times in MHA where Quirks are portrayed as things equivalent to a person's consciousness or even soul. This is doubly true in the case of AFO who absorbed not only the Quirks of his victims but also their minds. Hence is why AFO is uncomfortable with the sheer amount of hate his victims give him and possibly feels semblamces of shame. This also happens for OFA where even when the bearers die their conscience remained intact in the Quirks that were assimilated into OFA.

Hence it is probably why just taking someone's DNA, most of the time at least since there are some exceptions, is not enough to gain their Quirks .

I believe someone in this thread compiled a massive post containing the details of what I said but I do not remember where. Hopefully someone comes out about it or the information is found.
 
I kind of spaced out. If Shigaraki’s durability is = or a little bit lower than the High Ends then I guess the entire War Arc could’ve been done a lot easier if Deku had restrained Shigaraki with 45% blackwhip then Mirko one shots him by kicking his brain into mush.
 
Since excessive physical strength would require shigaraki to lose brain cells it would make sense for garaki to make shigaraki as fast and durable as he could while also giving him regen to combat a OFA user since he could make up for his lack of AP with quirks and decay
 
Mirko >>>> Prime OFA might become a thing here. I won't be surprised with how some people are moving instead of just acknowledging the obvious.
 
Yeah. Deku’s 100% did = All Might’s 100% but within one year 45% Deku is now ≈ to 100% All Might. Because we all know OFA grows stronger at that super monstrously broken speed.
 
“When you use this power out of anger, it’ll really start working for you. What really matters is controlling your heart.”

That’s why Deku is so strong in the current arc. He’s ******* pissed. He just needs to control his heart, which he isn’t really doing that well imo; running around all over the place trying to bait AFO and keep his friends safe because he can’t control his heart. It’s right to fear AFO, but Deku’s fear is somewhat irrational. If AFO was in a state to come take him, he would’ve come with Nagant, not trying to play this cat and mouse game to wear him down.

AFO won’t come until his spirit is broken, because until then, he can’t take OFA. So going back to UA is Deku’s best choice IMO.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Introducing new DNA would not give them multiple Quirks, nor is it proof of multiple Quirks, this is stated by Tsukauchi. They have multiple Quirks because AFO transplanted the Quirks into the Nomu. While Garaki can transplant Quirks, the effort/time it takes isn't good enough for mass production. It was the main reason why High-End production had slowed down so much.

He usually just had AFO transfer the Quirks.

Aizawa stated the USJ Nomu was as strong as All Might, even without Quirks. "Looking at any part of his body should be enough to nullify him... That means... This is his base strength! He's easily as strong as All Might..."

And Aizawa was right, the Nomu was equal to USJ All Might until he went Plus Ultra.

Considering Garaki stated he could've given Shigaraki All Might level strength, but didn't so he wouldn't overburden his brain, I'm positive the USJ Nomu strength is All Might level without any Quirks.
Click to expand...
But ... Why do we consider that Aizawa knows exactly how strong All might is? In the context it looks more than he simply said that because of the immense pain of someone breaking his arm with ease. Because, at that point, if I'm not mistaken, that's the only feat Aizawa saw from USJ Nomu. Or did All Might ever break his arm so that he would know the "exact feeling." Because to be honest, surely someone like Re-Destro could do the exact same thing to Aizawa if he was blind.

We are taking into consideration a doubtful statement, it would be the same as taking Deku's statement as fact that class A together could give All migh problems, what is worse is that this statement sounds more valid because with Deku we know that he knows the strength that OFA possesses.

And why introducing new DNA is not proof of more quirks? Why else would they put external DNA on it? If you supposedly only need 2 quirks + to improve your stats artificially

Seriously, what could be the role of extra DNA if not to have more quirks?

And it is not impossible that Garaki was simply referring to Shigaraki having the strength of All might with his enhanced stats + quirks. USJ Nomu was perhaps closer to the strength of All might without quirks, but we never heard directly from Garaki that USJ Nomu was as powerful as All Might without quirks.
 
TheRustyOne said:
It actually says that those in the Upper-Tier are at least as strong as ten average people. Which means the weakest Upper-Tier Nomu are as strong as ten average people combined, it does not say in general. Hood only greatly injured Endeavor because he used a sharp attack, this is a cut, not a bruise from a punch or standard impact. Someone 2X weaker than Endeavor can inflict identical damage with a sharp weapon. Hood never punches Endeavor, he just throws him around.

We don't see how much damage this does because Endeavor is resisting the throw with his propulsion. Shigaraki did less damage than Hood, but that's because his attack was a punch, not a cut. Give him a sword arm and I wouldn't be surprised if he could do far more damage.

In terms of power, I personally believe Kamino All Might stronger. But in terms of durability, I think the two are very close. Considering Endeavor considers Shigaraki to be equal to All Might, and narratively it makes sense for Shigaraki to be stronger. A punch from Hood would've done less damage than the punch from Shigaraki.
Click to expand...
Why would a hit from Shigaraki be stronger than one from Hood?

The logic is not supposed to be that High Ends> USJ Nomu = /> Enhanced Shigaraki (?
 
Scaling of Nomus with regard to their natural biological strength vs strength with quirks have always kicked people's butts over here.
 
ÆONS said:
There is a lot more to Quirks than just raw genetics. There are muliple times in MHA where Quirks are portrayed as things equivalent to a person's consciousness or even soul. This is doubly true in the case of AFO who absorbed not only the Quirks of his victims but also their minds. Hence is why AFO is uncomfortable with the sheer amount of hate his victims give him and possibly feels semblamces of shame. This also happens for OFA where even when the bearers die their conscience remained intact in the Quirks that were assimilated into OFA.

Hence it is probably why just taking someone's DNA, most of the time at least since there are some exceptions, is not enough to gain their Quirks .

I believe someone in this thread compiled a massive post containing the details of what I said but I do not remember where. Hopefully someone comes out about it or the information is found.
Click to expand...
Even with that explanation, that would not change that quirks are purely genetic.
It is not "To take the quirk it is also necessary to take a part of the soul / mind" but rather "When taking the quirk, a part of the consciousness is also included"

Because the explanation in bnha to all this, said by AFO himself, is the same as the memory of the Body theory, which is a real hypothesis btw, AFO even mentions that the cells and organs also include memories



So it should be perfectly possible to take a quirk with only genetic processes ... or perhaps now doctors in bnha must also do spiritual processes when doing organ transplants?
 
Fumikage: has his entire foot blasted
Also Fumikage: "I got this burn around my ankle. No biggie."

EDIT: IT HAPPENED TO KYOKA, TOO.

Denki: has a ******* boulder thrown at his forehead
 
Ultimate_Invader_Pendulum said:
A
Click to expand...
Shigaraki had his Quirks erased during that moment, and Endeavor stated he was as strong as All Might. Aizawa seeing his All Might level strength, even though he erased his Quirks, was reminded of the USJ Nomu. Once again this heavily implies that the USJ Nomu's strength is Quirkless.

Aizawa states the USJ Nomu is equal to All Might and he was correct, it is irrelevant to speculate how he could've know. He did know and he was right. There's no reason for us to question this unless the story itself gives us a reason to question his knowledge. Endeavor and Aizawa can confidently claim that Quirkless Shigaraki is as strong as All Might, with Aizawa seeing that strength and be reminded of the USJ Nomu.

Knowing that Garaki can give someone almost All Might level strength without any Quirks, and states he could've raised it more but didn't to avoid overburdening the brain. The USJ Nomu's statement of being as strong as All Might without Quirks is very believable.

Also the idea that Garaki meant Quirks and not Shigaraki's base strength implies that he can't take any strength enhancing Quirks without overburdening his brain. If that's true, how is Shigaraki suppose to steal OFA? Unless OFA is a magical exception, I'm pretty confident even Garaki is talking about his Quirkless strength.

Having extra DNA in general does not equal multiple Quirks, I didn't mean to imply that having multiple Quirks won't give you another's DNA. However I imagine this does not hold true for AFO's methods of transplanting, only for Garaki's method. Since AFO doesn't do any type of surgery, just hand on body and bam Quirk transfer.

However if we did assume this DNA meant he held two always active strength Quirks, what does this mean for the scaling?

What are you trying to get passed here?
 
Question: Does anyone have any idea on why Garaki didn't make copies of Shock Absorption? A Quirk like that is very powerful against physical fighters.
 
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