Mushoku Tensei Discussion Thread

[Digital_Franz]

Rudeus broke his bones from falling down, can that be used in anyway?

It will all depend on the distance but it should at least be Wall level.

 

[Betatester0]

I read the ODT and found something that confuses me.

The treasures that Orsted needs to get to Hitogami are fragments of the divine jewel of the first dragon god:
"For the descendants of the Five Dragon Generals, he hidden in various corners of the world treasures made from fragments of Dragon God-sama's divine jewel, and records of his research results in ruins all over the world."

Laplace is reincarnated by sending his soul in the future and Orsted still needs to kill him, which means the jewel must be tied to his soul, so it would be logical that in the original full state they are also connected to the soul.

In addition, we see how the jewel given to Orsted falls into his body:
"Dragon God-sama picked up one of the divine jewels and placed it on the chest of the child... it fell within." .

And Hitogami was able to snatch the divine jewel from the body of the dragon god:

"There was an extra arm growing from Dragon God-sama's chest. Szilard or Dora-sama's lost arm? No. There were no scales on that arm. A flesh-colored, featureless arm. Surrounded by fog, difficult to recognize. Everyone, including Dragon God-sama, was looking at the arm stunned. To be precise, the owner of that arm. Behind him, the god that struck landed a deadly blow against Dragon God-sama.
"Human God..."
Human God had punched through Dragon God-sama's chest, grabbing his divine jewel."

Then there are only two options: either divine jewels are tied with the souls only of creatures other than gods (which would be strange) or gods must have passive soul manipulation, which would be generally logical, Orsted’s curse and Hitogami’s power must works on the principle of releasing special mana that should influence the souls of the inhabitants of this world (considering that Rudeus has a body from this world, the only explanation is why Orsted’s curse and Hitogami's power does not affect him is that his soul is from another world.

The only thing that can play in favor of the first option is this moment:

"As Dragon God-sama finished, he picked up one of the divine jewels and pushed it into his chest.

Blood streamed, but Dragon God-sama's body began to shine.

A little power seemed to have returned to that dying body."

this shows that the first dragon god inserted the jewel into himself, but this can be explained by the fact that he already had a hole in his chest

 

[Digital_Franz]

I read the ODT and found something that confuses me.

The treasures that Orsted needs to get to Hitogami are fragments of the divine jewel of the first dragon god:
"For the descendants of the Five Dragon Generals, he hidden in various corners of the world treasures made from fragments of Dragon God-sama's divine jewel, and records of his research results in ruins all over the world."

Laplace is reincarnated by sending his soul in the future and Orsted still needs to kill him, which means the jewel must be tied to his soul, so it would be logical that in the original full state they are also connected to the soul.

In addition, we see how the jewel given to Orsted falls into his body:
"Dragon God-sama picked up one of the divine jewels and placed it on the chest of the child... it fell within." .

And Hitogami was able to snatch the divine jewel from the body of the dragon god:

"There was an extra arm growing from Dragon God-sama's chest. Szilard or Dora-sama's lost arm? No. There were no scales on that arm. A flesh-colored, featureless arm. Surrounded by fog, difficult to recognize. Everyone, including Dragon God-sama, was looking at the arm stunned. To be precise, the owner of that arm. Behind him, the god that struck landed a deadly blow against Dragon God-sama.
"Human God..."
Human God had punched through Dragon God-sama's chest, grabbing his divine jewel."

Then there are only two options: either divine jewels are tied with the souls only of creatures other than gods (which would be strange) or gods must have passive soul manipulation, which would be generally logical, Orsted’s curse and Hitogami’s power must works on the principle of releasing special mana that should influence the souls of the inhabitants of this world (considering that Rudeus has a body from this world, the only explanation is why Orsted’s curse and Hitogami's power does not affect him is that his soul is from another world.

The only thing that can play in favor of the first option is this moment:

"As Dragon God-sama finished, he picked up one of the divine jewels and pushed it into his chest.

Blood streamed, but Dragon God-sama's body began to shine.

A little power seemed to have returned to that dying body."

this shows that the first dragon god inserted the jewel into himself, but this can be explained by the fact that he already had a hole in his chest

A bit difficult. Even if it is a part of the soul, that does not prevent it from being removed like Hitogami did. Just like in MGK, Anos is able to touch the source and even remove it from the body but that doesn't stop it from being an abstraction.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I'll give you ideas for the different sections like the ones you've posted: Gods, Seven Great Powers, ...

The ideas:

.- Grayrat Family/Rudeus Family: Rudeus, Silphiette, Roxy, the childrens, Norn, Aisha, etc.
.- Rudeus´s Friends: Linia, Pursena, Zanoba, Cliff, Elinalise, Soldat, Nanahoshi, etc.
.- Fangs of the black Wolf: Ghislaine, Paul, Elinalise, Geese, Paul, etc.
.- Counter Arrow: Sara, Suzanne, Patris, etc.
.- Swordmans: Gal Farion, Nina, Gino, Gallus, etc

I thought about your idea and it seems good to me. However, instead of putting Greyrat Family I would have preferred to put Orsted Company. I try to organize in such a way as to have the fewest repetitions.

 

[Betatester0]

A bit difficult. Even if it is a part of the soul, that does not prevent it from being removed like Hitogami did. Just like in MGK, Anos is able to touch the source and even remove it from the body but that doesn't stop it from being an abstraction.

does this mean that even if divine jewels are connected to souls, their separation will not give soul manipulation ?

 

[Digital_Franz]

does this mean that even if divine jewels are connected to souls, their separation will not give soul manipulation ?

This could possibly result in Soul Manipulation. Soul Manipulation already exists in the verse due to the reincarnation technique which manipulates the soul.

 

[Betatester0]

This could possibly result in Soul Manipulation. Soul Manipulation already exists in the verse due to the reincarnation technique which manipulates the soul.

Good, thank you. I wanted to give soul manipulation for Orsted's sword, but there were problems with it, so even the potential for this is not so bad. especially since, as I already indicated, the mana that Orsted allocates should already be able to influence specifically souls in addition to all cases that are associated with souls.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Good, thank you. I wanted to give soul manipulation for Orsted's sword, but there were problems with it, so even the potential for this is not so bad. especially since, as I already indicated, the mana that Orsted allocates should already be able to influence specifically souls in addition to all cases that are associated with souls.

OK.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Here are some feats and info from second part of volume 12 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 8:

.- Paul so fast that Rudeus, even with his demonic eye, has a hard time seeing him.
.- The hydra cancels the magic
.- The hydra also nullifies the magic of objects (Elinalise's weapon magic)
.- The hydra can regenerate its heads
.- Beginner healing magic capable of healing wounds that would require dozens of stitches in Japan
.- The hydra, a dragon with unparalleled strength
.- The hydra can cancel magic as long as it is not at close range

Chapter 9:

.- It is made clear that Paul and Elinalise are superior to Pursena, Linia and Luke
.- The hydra does not use more than four heads simultaneously
.- Advanced healing spell does not restore lost limbs

 

[Digital_Franz]

.- Paul so fast that Rudeus, even with his demonic eye, has a hard time seeing him.

Hard to calc.

.- The hydra, a dragon with unparalleled strength

So Hydra = Saint-tier

.- The hydra can cancel magic as long as it is not at close range

Limited Power Nul

.- It is made clear that Paul and Elinalise are superior to Pursena, Linia and Luke

So Elinalise = Advanced-tier

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Hard to calc.

A least put Paul as the fastest saint by now

So Hydra = Saint-tier

No, only is the strongest dragon and maybe monster in general.

Limited Power Nul

Ok

So Elinalise = Advanced-tier

No. Nothing contradict her actual tier. She is above intermediate and inferior to advanced. The previous volume solidified her tier

 

[Digital_Franz]

No, only is the strongest dragon and maybe monster in general.

Chopped Paul.

No. Nothing contradict her actual tier. She is above intermediate and inferior to advanced. The previous volume solidified her tier

Oh. I no longer had it in mind.

 

[Digital_Franz]

 

[Zabazab]

Here's the raw too;

しかし、その心配は杞憂だった。

龍神様の体から金色の光が溢れ出すと、かの御方は光をも超える速度で動き始めたのだ。

魔神が拳足を繰り出すも、めったに当たらない。

たまに当たったと思えば、逆に魔神の体がはじけ飛んだ。

—Old Dragon's Tale, Chapter 19, "The Destruction of the Demon World"

 

[Digital_Franz]

Here's the raw too;

—Old Dragon's Tale, Chapter 19, "The Destruction of the Demon World"

And what do you say about it?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Hitogami would also have fate manipulation via being able to change destiny when "Roxy's fate was weakened due to her pregnancy" (weird condition but alright)
It also appears that there are levels and strengths to certain people's fates i.e. strong fated people can change the destiny of lesser fated people

Ref?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Hmm. A guardian beast with a strong destiny, huh? In other words, we’d have a guard dog protected by the laws of causality…

 

[Zabazab]

And what do you say about it?

I'd say Dragon God-sama can amp himself to FTL

 

[Digital_Franz]

I'd say Dragon God-sama can amp himself to FTL

So FP Orsted, Hitogami...

 

[Digital_Franz]

So FP Orsted, Hitogami...

And also the speed cap of the verse is not SoL.

 

[Betatester0]

the speed of light would not be the limit in any case and this only confirms this once again. but I doubt this applies to Orsted and Hitogami considering they are only comparable to the dragon god after all his battles

 

[Digital_Franz]

the speed of light would not be the limit in any case and this only confirms this once again. but I doubt this applies to Orsted and Hitogami considering they are only comparable to the dragon god after all his battles

Not necessarily. And it was even while injured that he achieved this feat.

 

[Zabazab]

So FP Orsted, Hitogami...

Dragon God is the strongest God, and he did this via an amp that even Demon God, who was near-equal with Dragon God prior, could not keep up with at all.

The weakest God, Hitogami, woud not scale. And just the fact that he needs to amp himself with this golden light ability to reach FTL implies that normally, he is not FTL. I said SoL was the cap for Mushoku Tensei, not for Six-Sided World verse as a whole.

 

[Betatester0]

Dragon God is the strongest God, and he did this via an amp that even Demon God, who was near-equal with Dragon God prior, could not keep up with at all.

The weakest God, Hitogami, woud not scale. And just the fact that he needs to amp himself with this golden light ability to reach FTL implies that normally, he is not FTL. I said SoL was the cap for Mushoku Tensei, not for Six-Sided World verse as a whole.

I don't see anything talking about amplification. dragon god could simply be saving his strength to fight against the demon god

 

[Digital_Franz]

Dragon God is the strongest God, and he did this via an amp that even Demon God, who was near-equal with Dragon God prior, could not keep up with at all.

The weakest God, Hitogami, woud not scale. And just the fact that he needs to amp himself with this golden light ability to reach FTL implies that normally, he is not FTL. I said SoL was the cap for Mushoku Tensei, not for Six-Sided World verse as a whole.

I don't believe he amplified himself with golden light but just being faster than light just made him perceived as golden light.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I believe what zab is saying to be more likely plus again..nobody else scales
this would be baseline FTL too since we dont have any calcs for this feat

 

[Digital_Franz]

Either way, whether it's a technique or not, Orsted will be FTL. The fact is that the First Dragon God passed all of his techniques to Orsted so if it's one then Orsted has it. If not a technique, Orsted should at least be comparable to the injured and tired First Dragon God who achieved this feat.

 

[Betatester0]

Either way, whether it's a technique or not, Orsted will be FTL. The fact is that the First Dragon God passed all of his techniques to Orsted so if it's one then Orsted has it. If not a technique, Orsted should at least be comparable to the injured and tired First Dragon God who achieved this feat.

I don't think it could be a technique. We have already seen how the amplifier technique works using the example of the dragon generals, if this were a technique, then the body of the dragon god would have to be distorted in some way. There are simply no other amp techniques, and do they even exist, considering that even this technique was created by demons only during the war, and if there had been another amp technique, then the dragon god would definitely have told his generals about it. and the dragon god did not passed all the techniques to Orsted. Laplace himself said that many techniques have been lost since then.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I don't think it could be a technique. We have already seen how the enhancement technique works using the example of the dragon generals, if this were a technique, then the body of the dragon god would have to be distorted in some way. There are simply no other enhancement techniques and do they even exist, considering that even this technique was created by demons only during the war and if there had been another enhancement technique, then the dragon god would definitely have told his generals about it.

I also don't think it's a technique. I said that in case they persist in passing it off as a technique.

and the dragon god did not passed all the techniques to Orsted. Laplace himself said that many techniques have been lost since then.

This is what Laplace says but in fact and what is said, Orsted received everything. Laplace spoke rather of the techniques that he wanted to pass on to Orsted over time.

 

[Betatester0]

I also don't think it's a technique. I said that in case they persist in passing it off as a technique.

This is what Laplace says but in fact and what is said, Orsted received everything. Laplace spoke rather of the techniques that he wanted to pass on to Orsted over time.

but then Orsted should also know the technique of his time loops, but he does not know it

 

[Digital_Franz]

but then Orsted should also know the technique of his time loops, but he does not know it

Who said he doesn't know? It is implicitly shown that he knows this technique due to the fact that "Future Rudeus" was able to learn a limited version of this technique and Orsted once facing Hitogami would have to remove the power and energy restriction of this technique to beat Hitogami.

 

[Betatester0]

Who said he doesn't know? It is implicitly shown that he knows this technique due to the fact that "Future Rudeus" was able to learn a limited version of this technique and Orsted once facing Hitogami would have to remove the power and energy restriction of this technique to beat Hitogami.

As far as I remember, the author himself spoke about this in Q&A, but I need to find this question

 

[Digital_Franz]

As far as I remember, the author himself spoke about this in Q&A, but I need to find this question

Find it.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Well people, I proceed to update the scale with the data from volume 12.

TIER LIST

Orsted = Dragon God
Technique God
Fighting God
Laplace = Demon God
Death God
Gald Farion = Sword God
Kalman II = North God

God Level

Rudeus Teenager Aqua Hartia Water (x5) > 2,3 TER TNT

Imperial Level = Rudeus Teenager Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3) = Ruijerd = Auber > 1,38 TER TNT

Rudeus Teenager Aqua Hartia Fire (x2) > 920 GIG TNT

King Level = Rudeus Teenager Magic = Badigadi = Almanfi = Ghislaine = Roxy Staff Water King (x2) > 460 GIG TNT

Roxy King > 230 GIG TNT
Roxy Staff Fire King (x0,5) > 115 GIG TNT
Rudeus Aqua Hartia Water (x5) > 115 GIG TNT
Rudeus Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3) > 69 GIG TNT
Fitts Magic (>1/7 Rudeus Teenager Magic) > 65 GIG TNT
Rudeus Aqua Hartia Fire (x2) > 46 GIG TNT
Rudeus Magic
Jinas Halfas Magic = Nina
Paul LN12

Saint = Gino = Roxy Staff Water (x2) = Gallus Cleaner = Klein Dinoltas = 23 GIG TNT
The calc for the 23 GIG TNT: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/Mushoku_Tensei:_Rudeus_makes_a_storm

Eris LN6 = ~20 GIG TNT -> Close to Saint
Roxy Magic = 11,5 GIG TNT
Roxy Staff Fire (x0,5) = 5,75 GIG TNT
Class A Monster
Cliff Magic
Paul
7º Year Student Magic

Gyes >= Advanced Level = Eris = Soldat = Conrad Magic = Silphiette Magic = Strong Bandit = Linia Magic = Pursena Magic = Leno Magic = 5º Year Student Magic

Class B Monster = Elinalise
Class C Monster
Class D Monster
Luke = Linia = Pursena
3º Year Student Magic
Pope´s Assassin

Intermediate Level = Timothy Magic = Roxy Child Magic = Ginger = Therese = Rudeus Teenager = Rudeus LN6 = Regular Swordsman

Rudeus -> Close to Intermediate
Eris Magic

Beginner Level = Elinalise Magic = Ghislaine Magic = Patrice Magic = Aisha Magic

Nokopara
Geese = Mimir = Timothy
Zenith = Lilia = Jinas Halfas
Pax > Fitts = Nanahoshi
Roxy
Class E Monster
Cliff
Kishirika
Ashia = Norn
Silphiette
Roxy Child

No Level

The changes:

.- Incorpored a new Paul (Paul LN12) as stronger than average Saint

A put him stronger for the speed but nothing really put him very strong or anything compare to other saints

Doubts:

.- I don't know where the following characters will be: Hydra

Previous Doubts:

.- I don't know where the following characters will be: Bloody Kant, Blaze, Dale, Leno, Gadalf Rangid, Talhand, Zanoba, Shierria, Vierra and Class S- Monster, Sara, Suzanne, Patrice, Ogre God, Elmore, Kleene, Nights Eyes Crow, Goliade and Conrad

Any suggestions to change or disagrees/agrees? am i missing some character?

About the anime:

 

[Zabazab]

Orsted should at least be comparable to the injured and tired First Dragon God who achieved this feat.

Definitely not. Orsted is comparable Hitogami, the weakest God. Dragon God becoming FTL was too fast for even Demon God, the second-strongest God, to keep up with at all.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Definitely not. Orsted is comparable Hitogami, the weakest God. Dragon God becoming FTL was too fast for even Demon God, the second-strongest God, to keep up with at all.

Hitogami is not the weakest God. The Human God yes but not Hitogami. In fact, FP Orsted>>>>First Demon God.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Doubts:

.- I don't know where the following characters will be: Hydra

Like I said, Hydra chopped Paul who is comparable to a Saint so Hydra should definitely be there.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Like I said, Hydra chopped Paul who is comparable to a Saint so Hydra should definitely be there.

Above a saint, but not that much. It happens in a similar way to the Class S Monster. And I remember the author said that if Ghislaine had been there it would have been difficult anyway, right? Or is my memory playing tricks on me?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Above a saint, but not that much. It happens in a similar way to the Class S Monster. And I remember the author said that if Ghislaine had been there it would have been difficult anyway, right? Or is my memory playing tricks on me?

So if we just put it at the baseline Saint then it would be logical. The fact that Ghislaine is there is not going to solve the problem of head number and regeneration and with exhaustion it could beat her. It's just a possibility so...

 

[Zabazab]

Hitogami is not the weakest God. The Human God yes but not Hitogami. In fact, FP Orsted>>>>First Demon God.

...Who can Hitogami scale to other than Human God? The idea that unrestricted Orsted is >>> Demon God is just laughable, if that was the case then Hitogami could have just beat Dragon God in the 1v1.