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Muhammad Avdol VS Raven Branwen

WeeklyBattles said:
I think the only one who ever did anything like that is Jotaro and even then it wouldnt work due to Aura blocking the stand
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was always under the impression that's something that only Star Platnium (and by extension Za Wardou) could do.

Have other stands ever done something like that?
 
No, but all stands being selectively intangible means they can do that.

But Weekly is right, it's extremely OOC and aura blocks the stand anyway.
 
ProfessorLord said:
No, but all stands being selectively intangible means they can do that.
Click to expand...
Was there a statement of that? I probably missed it.
 
#2: Stands can only be affected by other Stands

Unless of course, they want to interact something. We see Magician's Red and Star Platinum have a fight through prison bars. We've seen Echoes 2 go through ceilings and floors and we've had Hermit Purple pass through the control panel of an airplane to access the circuitry.

It's a property all stands share. I'm pretty sure you can find it on most of their pages.
 
ProfessorLord said:
Raven's ice only protects her if she manages to counter it. If it hits her in a spot where she did not attempt to retaliate with ice (which is going to happen often against invisible flames) then she suffers the damage.
Her bird form also loses access to the ice that can protect her, and I don't know what bird is mobile enough to dodge this , so she still likely gets tagged and binded.

I think Raven will realize that he's using flames, I don't think she'll know that he is actually creating a being that is using flames. That'll lead to a dangerous assumption if she ever tries to just go for the kill, seeing as how Magician's Red is right there to launch the most powerful kick he can against an unguarded opponent.
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Still waiting @Weekly. I refuted your other points and you haven't responded to this.
 
She doesnt need to use her bird form to be mobile, only to escape the restraint

Even if he gets one free hit in the gap isnt enough to do any serious damage and Raven will wise up to it and not let it happen a second time
 
Wise up to multiple chains of invisible fire that would have binded even the likes of Silver Chariot had they not been afterimages? As a bird?

She can't escape with her bird form, they will immediately grab her again lol. Watch the link I included and tell me that a bird can escape that.
 
No, wise up to the fact that bullrushing her opponent gets her sucker punched by an opponent she didnt know was there

I did, yes she can escape it, they can transform at will, she only needs to shrink into a bird to escape before regaining the mobility to evade
 
The problem is, after she gets sucker punched she's going to be restrained like Jotaro. Red Bind will keep her to whatever surface he wants, the floor, a wall, etc. From there he will continually douse her in his flames until she passes out and later dies.

Okay, but once she shrinks into a bird she's going to be immediately swatted out of the air by a chain of fire. Then she's in the same position regardless.
 
Technically Magician's Red isnt strong enough to restrain her due to her lifting strength

She wont be a bird for more than a split second
 
Red Bind can still be used to choke her out in a vortex. That, in combination with his Crossfire Hurricane Special and she will pass out from exhaustion very quickly. I also don't see how she dodges homing ankhs made out of fire that can send her ragdolling if she can't see them.

Again, stretch of the imagination to say that she can counter and adapt to attacks that she can't see. I don't think she'll ever come close to touching Avdol. If she's not kept at a distance from the repeated blasts of fire, then Magician's Red will handily body her at close distance.
 
Raven and people on Raven's level have fought people with invisibility before, plus if the heat is really that intense she'd still be able to feel the attack long before it hits her

Her ice would protect her from a lot of Red's fire attacks and she can use a lightning or gravity dust blade to increase the damage her strikes do
 
There's a difference between fighting someone with invisibility and fighting someone who is visible, but can continually burn and bombard you with invisible ranged attacks from a multitude of directions.

The whole battlefield would likely be scorching from heat, so not really easy to tell. Sensing heat also doesn't give you nearly enough time to react, because by the time it is so hot you can feel it in front of you, it's going to touch you. Speed is equalized here.

Her ice blade would protect her if she can see the attacks or predict where they're coming from. His Crossfire Hurricane can split off in many different directions including underground, so her prediction isn't going to be very accurate. Her gravity and lightning are only useful if she can reach Avdol, which she can already oneshot.
 
We've already agreed that it doesn't let them see on a spiritual level or anything remotely similar to stands, so it should be invisible to her. She can still touch Magician's Red with her aura though.

I just think an invisible ranged force is too much for her to cope with. If this was Star Platinum she might have an easier time seeing as how he's melee and she can get in range to touch him via prediction, but a bombardment of flames is going to put her in pain throughout the entire fight, is going to keep her at a distance by continually ragdolling her, is going to heat up the air around her making it harder to breathe, and will generally be her downfall.

If by some freak accident she rushes past his bombardment of flame attacks, Magician's Red is there to deliver a kick straight to her jaw. I've never seen someone who was roughly ~x2 weaker than their opponent stay concious after a roundhouse kick to the head. It really seems like she won't be given enough time to learn all the inner workings of this fight.
 
I am going to vote Avdol FRA, since he has the range advantage. Magician's Red can zone her out with his fire attacks or even surprise her with Crossfire Hurricane Special. She won't see that coming while she's trying to dodge multiple projectiles while another one is beneath her.
 
Thing is, his flames are considered a part of his stand, so why cant she just hit them which would in turn damage Avdol? She;d see the heat waves of the flames as well.
 
There's no proof or evidence suggesting that the flames transfer damage to Avdol. We've seen other projectiles from stands such as Hierophant Green, Emperor, Sex Pistols, and Aerosmith; none of their projectiles transfer damage to the stand or the stand user.

They are part of his stand but are disconnected for all intensive purposes. We even see Polnareff slice his flames into pieces over and over with Silver Chariot. Avdol was never harmed.

Yes she can see the heat waves, but not for long. The battlefield will heat up and in turn it will generate heat waves anyway. If it's a sunny day in Central Park, it's often like that anyway.
 
If Raven can't counter the flames of Avdol, I'd say he takes this then. Unless she's able to get a clean shot of Avdol before he can melt anything, she's not touching him.
 
Derpinator9001 said:
Red Bind is gonna be an issue for Raven. Unless she got an answer for it, I vote Avdol.
Click to expand...
She has a higher lifting stat so she should be able to break out of it.

EDIT: Wait, that's not right either. Star Platinum was unable to break out of the bind and he has Class K lifting strength. Raven has Class K lifting strength as well. It should be able to restrain her.
 
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