- 15,636
- 5,391
I've been bothered with Jace's tiering and his feat for a long time on VSBW. I originally wanted to pair this revision with a bunch of other changes to stats, however I feel like it would be better to start showing why the feat and its scaling is invalid in multiple ways. Suffice to say Jace and many other Neowalkers are being nocked down a peg from Tier 6, likely all the way down into Tier 9 physically. I think their magical potency varies from person to person.
Let's start.
Jace Has No Offensive Spells
Or, at least, he has no offensive spells that scales to what he did. Jace is a defensive fighter; he uses counterpsells, illusions, and reditection to combat opponents. There's quite literally no other purely destructive spells he carries that could scale to his 'feat', even though they share the same mana source. I'd also like to point out Jace likely used countermagic here, not some offensive/water-manipulating spell, as he largely just disrupted Kiora's spell.
Jace's 'offense' largely consists of mindforkery, which obviously doesn't count for AP.
It's an Outlier
Pretty simple. Jace hasn't ever demontrated this level of strength before, and after.
The Feat was Calculated Wrong
Couple of things.
A sphere with a diameter of 3 miles has a volume of 14.14 cubic miles, or 5.893809e+10 cubic meters.
Given the density of water this gives us 5.8761276e+13 kg of water. This is three orders of magnitude below the mass of the Caspian Sea, which was used for the calc.
It's Environmental Destruction
Kiora was not using her own magical strength for any of these feats. She was using the Bident of Thassa. Therefore, her regular spells don't scale to it, nor does it scale to any other neowalkers as she's using an artifact of a Tier 4 God to perform these feats. She has never used the bident to directly harm enemies and only really uses to summon massive waves and move large quantities of water, which is by-the-books ED.
Conclusion
Jace's feat should generally be disregarded. Neowalkers in general haven't demonstrated anything near his feat even with magic. Not to even go into the physicals, Jace hasn't tanked magic from people comparable to him. He's a glass cannon, and loses to trained atheletes without his magic.
All other Neowalkers should similarly be downgraded. They have no grounds to scale to the feat from either Kiora or Jace.
Let's start.
Jace Has No Offensive Spells
Or, at least, he has no offensive spells that scales to what he did. Jace is a defensive fighter; he uses counterpsells, illusions, and reditection to combat opponents. There's quite literally no other purely destructive spells he carries that could scale to his 'feat', even though they share the same mana source. I'd also like to point out Jace likely used countermagic here, not some offensive/water-manipulating spell, as he largely just disrupted Kiora's spell.
Jace's 'offense' largely consists of mindforkery, which obviously doesn't count for AP.
It's an Outlier
Pretty simple. Jace hasn't ever demontrated this level of strength before, and after.
The Feat was Calculated Wrong
Couple of things.
- Jace didn't evaporate the sea through heat. He split the sea apart repeatedly until it disspated into mist, and even then we can tell that he didn't mist all of it. Therefore, the Heat of Vaporization can't be used for this feat. A lot of this could also just be attributed to the water falling through the air; water tends to disperse into mist when it's falling down a great distance. If it was any significant distance in the air; the majority of the water wouldn't have been even needed to be affected by Jace for this effect.
| But the sea split in two, and each half split in two, and each resulting half split and split again, and the mass of water dissolved and dispersed into mist. Water roared down, sweeping away Eldrazi creatures. |
- Biggest one: the mass used for the sea was picked from a real life-sea, when we actually have statements of the dimensions of the water that was hoisted into the air.
| A wall of water three miles wide rose into the air. It swirled and twined into a single mass, a floating, shimmering shape shot through with sea plants and coral and fish. It was a seawater globe, hovering overhead. Kiora had emptied the entire Halimar Sea, and was holding it through the strength of her will. Her gaze was fixed on the outcropping above Chandra, on the source of the spell—on Nissa. |
Given the density of water this gives us 5.8761276e+13 kg of water. This is three orders of magnitude below the mass of the Caspian Sea, which was used for the calc.
It's Environmental Destruction
Kiora was not using her own magical strength for any of these feats. She was using the Bident of Thassa. Therefore, her regular spells don't scale to it, nor does it scale to any other neowalkers as she's using an artifact of a Tier 4 God to perform these feats. She has never used the bident to directly harm enemies and only really uses to summon massive waves and move large quantities of water, which is by-the-books ED.
Conclusion
Jace's feat should generally be disregarded. Neowalkers in general haven't demonstrated anything near his feat even with magic. Not to even go into the physicals, Jace hasn't tanked magic from people comparable to him. He's a glass cannon, and loses to trained atheletes without his magic.
All other Neowalkers should similarly be downgraded. They have no grounds to scale to the feat from either Kiora or Jace.
