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Mortal Kombat 1 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ecstasy_Amphetamine
- Start date
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Any 9-A MK characters I can use against hunter?
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Powerscaling brainrot is part of general plot consistency at times, in the main story Baraka could punch down iron doors, here Sektor's blade barely scratches a rusty ass door.
It's like Geras being incapacitated by some random chains in MK11, they were heavy, but even a real person could probably have wiggled out of 'em.
It doesn't take too much to keep consistency, honestly, Tekken and SF did it in their own cinematic stories. See Kazuya (almost) busting an island busting or Steve waving through bullets in Tekken 8, or Chun-Li knocking down a giant metal door and the cast casually jump down from helicopters hundreds of meter into the air.
MK kinda does the biggest offense, because some characters are presented as gods and abominations, and then they fall for the stupidest shit.
I honestly don't see any tier 2 feats in Invasions, burning and freezing timelines sounds more like a metaphor to me, not unlike the various hyperboles about destroying the world etc...
We also have to consider we never see them doing it, and Scorpion was literally berserk, he could have done it anytime if he could have.
Titan Mileena also is probably dead, but it she is, she was likely killed either by bullets or by orbital laser.
It's like Geras being incapacitated by some random chains in MK11, they were heavy, but even a real person could probably have wiggled out of 'em.
It doesn't take too much to keep consistency, honestly, Tekken and SF did it in their own cinematic stories. See Kazuya (almost) busting an island busting or Steve waving through bullets in Tekken 8, or Chun-Li knocking down a giant metal door and the cast casually jump down from helicopters hundreds of meter into the air.
MK kinda does the biggest offense, because some characters are presented as gods and abominations, and then they fall for the stupidest shit.
Yes, it's like Titan Raiden needing the Jinsei to bust 'em all or raising a barrier, or Liu Kang, Shang Tsung and Kronika needing the hourglass to reboot or destroy even a single one.
I honestly don't see any tier 2 feats in Invasions, burning and freezing timelines sounds more like a metaphor to me, not unlike the various hyperboles about destroying the world etc...
We also have to consider we never see them doing it, and Scorpion was literally berserk, he could have done it anytime if he could have.
Titan Mileena also is probably dead, but it she is, she was likely killed either by bullets or by orbital laser.
Hellbeast
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1) The Jinsei thing is a chain reaction, that's true 2) Kronika did need to charge the Hourglass but was that a thing with Shang in the story mode? At the very least, we have Shang and Liu creating divergent timelines with their battle in Aftermath 3) Perhaps so but it lines up with the references to "devouring" or "destroying timelines" that we see and the sheer repetition makes me think it's something that is intended by the developers. 4) We don't get hard confirmation as to her death, all we know is her hybrids were being rounded up though many remain at large (this is also the only appearance of the orbital cannon so it has no anti-feats for being on a Titan's level) 5) This still ignores that Havik has conquered and absorbed timelines into his own before without seemingly needing the Kamidogu
Hellbeast
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Unrelated; but is anyone disappointed TItan Havik's skin doesn't seem to have a Deception palette? That shit would be perfect
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Titan Shang Tsung also wanted to absorb Liu Kang's timeline, but iirc he needed the hourglass, that's why he set up the entire ordeal and deception.
Havik's might have done the same, or may still have used Geras's time crystals, since we know he is aware of them and is probably his standard M.O., as seen with other timelines he ravaged.
It is also unclear whether he has absorbed all of them, because the kamidogus were supposedly meant to spread khaos in all the timelines related to each Geras absorbed into them, and that would be moot if all of them had already be integrated into Havik's.
A 2-C/B/A character should be supposed to destroy/alter/affect the related construct with ease and especially on their own, but right now they always required an item or a man-made portal, like those in the Yin valley.
Splitting the timelines might honestly be a matter of space-time hax tbh, it was the first time two time titans ever fought, making it a sort of paradox (Liu Kang wasn't a titan yet whe he killed Kronika), and it was the only time such an event occurred, even when a hundred different titans started duking out, marking it as a singularity.
The orbital cannon causes something like 6-C levels of damage, calling it tier 2 is kinda disingenous, considering how vague the strength of the titans is in the first place.
It's more immediate to say the cannon is 6-C and an anti-feat, rather than calling it tier 2, while also built by the Special Forces without magic.
Havik's might have done the same, or may still have used Geras's time crystals, since we know he is aware of them and is probably his standard M.O., as seen with other timelines he ravaged.
It is also unclear whether he has absorbed all of them, because the kamidogus were supposedly meant to spread khaos in all the timelines related to each Geras absorbed into them, and that would be moot if all of them had already be integrated into Havik's.
A 2-C/B/A character should be supposed to destroy/alter/affect the related construct with ease and especially on their own, but right now they always required an item or a man-made portal, like those in the Yin valley.
Splitting the timelines might honestly be a matter of space-time hax tbh, it was the first time two time titans ever fought, making it a sort of paradox (Liu Kang wasn't a titan yet whe he killed Kronika), and it was the only time such an event occurred, even when a hundred different titans started duking out, marking it as a singularity.
The orbital cannon causes something like 6-C levels of damage, calling it tier 2 is kinda disingenous, considering how vague the strength of the titans is in the first place.
It's more immediate to say the cannon is 6-C and an anti-feat, rather than calling it tier 2, while also built by the Special Forces without magic.
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Question is, can it be used as a feat for a regular tier? If the canon causes around 6-C levels of damage, can we use it to make most characters at least tier 7 or something like that?
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I don't think so, it explicitly obliterates several Mileena clones and possibly even Titan Mileena.
ShockingPsychic
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Final calc update got accepted, we can do profiles now
ThePrimalHunter
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ShockingPsychic
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Don't we still need to figure out LS and Speed ratings?
We might have to separate LS for higher and lower tiers, idk, characters like Geras seem more physically impressive or menacing than others, but I admittedly don't know where to draw the lines.
Khaos Geras collapsin the giant pillar is a great LS feat, considering he breaks it with the push alone.
Iirc Bi-Han actively wrestles against Ermac's TK trying to restrain him.
The Dark Fusions sound more like around the level of the overall cast, just like all the alternate version jobbers.
The Hero Final Fighter is just a titan iirc.
The Kombat Pack also scales to the main cast, aside from crossover that are Titan Level due to existing in their own bubble story and killing Titan Shang Tsung.
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- Thread starter
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I don't think the Dark characters, the timeline fusion characters like Klockodile, or the Final Fighter deserve profiles, the first two are insignificant and the FF is just a Titan version of a character in MK1 which means we'll be making dozens of profiles. Only Titan who needs a profile IMO is Havik, we already have Titan Shang and Liu which is their current profiles here
Btw, not related to MK1, but can anyone finish the Midway MK profiles? I'm tired of doing them, but you can copy them from my sandbox here. Don't forget to put that box where there's links to the profiles of alternate versions of the character, like their MK9-11 selves and their selves from the movies or crossovers. Will answer questions about what's in their profile and why it's there
vsbattles.fandom.com
Btw, not related to MK1, but can anyone finish the Midway MK profiles? I'm tired of doing them, but you can copy them from my sandbox here. Don't forget to put that box where there's links to the profiles of alternate versions of the character, like their MK9-11 selves and their selves from the movies or crossovers. Will answer questions about what's in their profile and why it's there
Ecstasy Amphetamine/sandbox5
vsbattles.fandom.com
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- Thread starter
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No because the hunter may be 9-A but he doesn't oneshot MK chars, none of them are glass cannons
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Yeah, Dark Characters and such are irrelevant, but in the back of my mind I thought there might have been some more relevant one I wasn't remembering at first.
I'd say even Liutenant Johnny Cage might not deserve a profile, idk he's cool and everything, but quite minor all in all. Even Emperor Rain and Tanya have a slight glow up and are playable, but they are minor versions than the main ones (although they ironically have more screen time).
Also, this time we might really have to separate some fatalities and related abilities in different optional tabbers, stuff like Sektor stating she cannot fly over great distances is sort of a gravestone on the notion she can fly to space and back in seconds.
I'd say even Liutenant Johnny Cage might not deserve a profile, idk he's cool and everything, but quite minor all in all. Even Emperor Rain and Tanya have a slight glow up and are playable, but they are minor versions than the main ones (although they ironically have more screen time).
Also, this time we might really have to separate some fatalities and related abilities in different optional tabbers, stuff like Sektor stating she cannot fly over great distances is sort of a gravestone on the notion she can fly to space and back in seconds.
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So what will be the new profiles? Titan Shang, Titan Havik and Invasion characters and some? Will the New Era recieve specific profiles?
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New Era kharakters should definitely receive new files.
Invasion Titans are pointless and it's better to just use them for whatever skaling purpose it may be.
Invasion Titans are pointless and it's better to just use them for whatever skaling purpose it may be.
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I'd pay her to let her do this to me!
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As I tend to say it "I love a woman who can kick my ass."
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The eggs are genuinely unsettling, I can imagine the gross feeling of them slushing down the throat, ugh.
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Imagine the Sindel Animality now
Hellbeast
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Ugh it can fill me up
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Replaying MK1 rn, I honestly love this game. My only grips are that the ending is a bit weak and Shang Tsung doesn't have his signature soul motif. Like, this is pretty much his signature in pop culture in general. I like that they gave him a mad scientist/alchemist theme though with his serums and all. Honestly, best Shang Tsung.
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At the risk of sparkling a debate,is it possible to use Liu Kang's black hole as a feat to establish a tier?
Even if not, just out of curiosity, what tier would it be?
Even if not, just out of curiosity, what tier would it be?
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The whole Cetrion debate all over again. I personnally think we should use it but whatever
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I'd honestly be more include to consider it a separate rating and, possibly more than previous games, MK1 has not done any progress to portray fatalities as something the characters are expected to do in canon, with the worst offender to my knowledge being Sektor.
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Problem with this idea is that, by that logic, almost nothing in the game in terms of abilities is canon.
I mean, Shang Tsung has lava manipulation on his profile because in 11, one of his attacks is to create a pool of lava but we never see him doing that in the cutscenes. In 1, Havik can spew an orb of blood and vomit blood in gameplay but it never appears in the story. Quan Chi's gameplay is all about opening portals and summoning eldritch abominations but once again, he never does that in cutscenes. Li Mei is never seen summoning her pink monster in cutscene either and Shang Tsung has Fatalities where he basically creates life by pouring some serum in someone's chest and one of his Brutalities has him injecting a serum that makes bones sprout through his foe's body but it never happens in gameplay either. Reptile can spew a huge ball of poison in gameplay but never does it in cutscenes. So what, we just focus on the cutscenes? If we ignore Cetrion growing taller than Earth or Liu's black hole because they don't appear in cutscenes, then why don't we do that for the rest of abilities that don't show up in the story? Kronika never summons a dinosaure in the story, only in gameplay so why should we give her that ability then by that logic? Or do we consider that some abilities are "more canon" than others and if so, why? When Reptile spews poison, it's logical in regard to his species but when Cetrion, an Elder Goddess, turns giant and towers over planet Earth, it's not?
Frankly, I'm on the side to think that if a character shows a certain ability in gameplay, then we should assume it's canon. Each character has their own gameplay, with specific abilities that fit their powerset, personnality and canon powerset, everything they show in gameplay is meant to be directly affiliated with them, what and who they are, including in terms of beings. Heck, that's the whole concept of fighting games, each character must have an identifiable gameplay that fits with them. Fatalities are part of these abilities, they all suit what we canonically know about the characters using them, heck in 11 we do see Cetrion can alter her size (she's giant when talking to Raiden with the other Elder Gods and then she's about as tall as he is some scenes later). So yes, I'm definitely convinced we should use Fatalies as canon and I'm genuinely baffled at why there's this debate about how abilities in a fighting game, meaning each character's gameplay is specifically thought and made for the character they belong to, can't be canon because they don't show up in cutscenes (aside maybe from scaling reasons and even then it can be solved).
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My idea is not that gameplay abilities must be shown in cutscenes as well, but rather that they don't have to contradict it.
Sektor explicitly says in a cutscene that her flight system allows her to cover only short distances, going in complete opposition with what is shown in her fatality, where she rockets to space and back in a matter of seconds.
We don't know if the black hole Liu Kang creates is supposed to stem from his demigod or titan powers, but assuming the former is the base, it would make him comparable to past timeline Raiden, from whom he has acquired divinity, which would result in a giant outlier since that's the only instance of a character on such level performing a 5-A feat.
Even accounting for that, it would be much more reasonable to assume that is a separate ability, Black Hole Creation, that should not scale to his physicals in virtue of the lack of a Universal Energy System in the verse.
Cetrion's fatality could very well be used, but it should be counted separately as well, since nothing suggests her human-sized form has the same strength of the giant one.
Some fatalities are often deemed unrealible for the goofy and cartoonish nature of some, with babalities, friendships and animalities going to the extreme. Even ruling the special ones out as borderline cases, even the fatalities should be evaluated with scrutiny.
Sektor explicitly says in a cutscene that her flight system allows her to cover only short distances, going in complete opposition with what is shown in her fatality, where she rockets to space and back in a matter of seconds.
We don't know if the black hole Liu Kang creates is supposed to stem from his demigod or titan powers, but assuming the former is the base, it would make him comparable to past timeline Raiden, from whom he has acquired divinity, which would result in a giant outlier since that's the only instance of a character on such level performing a 5-A feat.
Even accounting for that, it would be much more reasonable to assume that is a separate ability, Black Hole Creation, that should not scale to his physicals in virtue of the lack of a Universal Energy System in the verse.
Cetrion's fatality could very well be used, but it should be counted separately as well, since nothing suggests her human-sized form has the same strength of the giant one.
Some fatalities are often deemed unrealible for the goofy and cartoonish nature of some, with babalities, friendships and animalities going to the extreme. Even ruling the special ones out as borderline cases, even the fatalities should be evaluated with scrutiny.
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For Liu Kang, considering he can do it in gameplay even before recovering his Titan powers, it probably means it's his base. As for being comparable to Raiden, I don't think so. Fire God Liu in Mk 11 is clearly much stronger than Raiden, Raiden is a god inferior in power to Elder Gods like Cetrion but Liu readily fights and defeats her as Fire God LK without further power upgrade, showing him to be above Raiden, and in 1, he shows no power to control lightning (implying he put them in NE Raiden's amulet), meaning it's his own power and not Raiden's that we see.
For Cetrion, we can have something like "Tier, x in her giant form". For Sektor, I agree with you but it doesn't necessarily mean all Fatalities are wrong. Like you said, it must not contradict the rest. Sektor's does but nothing suggests Liu's does to.
Regardless, he should at least have this as an ability.
For Cetrion, we can have something like "Tier, x in her giant form". For Sektor, I agree with you but it doesn't necessarily mean all Fatalities are wrong. Like you said, it must not contradict the rest. Sektor's does but nothing suggests Liu's does to.
Regardless, he should at least have this as an ability.
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