Mortal Kombat 1 Discussion Thread

[Phsccarvalho]

@ArkhamDC06 unless he does it canonically, we can’t really use it to scale his power. We can just upscale Liu Kang without the time powers from Rain’s canonical ending of flooding order realm’s capital.

It's because? Rain's feat doesn't seem like something that goes to physicists. Besides, he said he didn't think he could conjure so much magic.

And Liu Kang without his time powers isn't that far behind the rest of the cast. He lost to a Sindel who lost to Mileena.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Phsccarvalho And yet Scorpion in this timeline, one of Liu Kang's underdogs managed to mollywhop Rain. To say Liu Kang is not remotely comparable to them when his status as a god puts him in a high level would be stupid.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

@Phsccarvalho And yet Scorpion in this timeline, one of Liu Kang's underdogs managed to mollywhop Rain. To say Liu Kang is not remotely comparable to them when his status as a god puts him in a high level would be stupid.

And how would we put this in a profile? Because it doesn't stay with physicists.

And Rain does this by controlling the water in that ocean.

Furthermore, of course Scorpion managed to do this. Rain said he never cast magic he didn't even think he was capable of. So Scorpion didn't even face this Rain conjuring so much magic.

 

[SamanPatou]

How do the feats of the canon before MK9 fare to the canon of MK9-11?

We keep them separate.

Liu Kang recreated the timeline by using the hourglass, which so far is the only way characters managed to affect such large structures, including Titan Shang who needed to destroy Liu's.

Rain's feat is also environmental destruction, since he had to summon a fuckton more magic than his normal output and it even exceeded his beliefs.

Without titan powers, Liu should be pretty much as strong as previous timeline Raiden, since he says he descended below the Elder Gods.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Their titan self should be above everyone else, like other titans

I mean are they getting updated and what tier would their titan forms be

 

[ShockingPsychic]

What are the tiers for everyone looking like?

 

[Theglassman12]

@SamanPatou did he say he descended below the elder gods? I don't recall him saying that in the story.

@Phsccarvalho if the series has any form of UES then this can scale to his physical stats.

 

[KingTempest]

We keep them separate.

I mean original timeline and Kronika's last one, not Liu Kang's first one

 

[CrackerVolley]

Hey so is New Era Scorpion going to be a Scorpion page or a Kuai Liang page?

 

[SamanPatou]

@SamanPatou did he say he descended below the elder gods? I don't recall him saying that in the story.

I recall him mentioning it after titan Shang Tsung's appearance, when he talks of how he surrundered his titan power to descend among mortals.
I should check it again, but I remember it clearly.

@Phsccarvalho if the series has any form of UES then this can scale to his physical stats.

It's always been kind of up in the air honestly, especially when talking about magic.
But Rain's feat is explicitly above his normal output, not only because he had never done anything similar in the past, but also because he had to summon much more magic than normal, meaning he can't do it so easily and his normal water attacks surely don't pack as force as the whole flood.

 

[SamanPatou]

I mean original timeline and Kronika's last one, not Liu Kang's first one

They also stay separate.
As said in previous messages, they are theoretically meant to be identical timelines, yet Netherrealm's storywriting changed already established events even before the changes made by Raiden's awareness, as well as past ones. It added new characters that shouldn't have been there, changed personalities and backstories still unrelated to Raiden's altered choices and so on, it even changed the cosmology itself.

They even changed their own story in-between MKX and 11, just to stress even more on how inconsistent the plot is.

Hey so is New Era Scorpion going to be a Scorpion page or a Kuai Liang page?

That's an interesting question, I believe it should still be called Scorpion but be in Kuai Liang's tabber.

 

[Theglassman12]

@SamanPatou i know he said he got rid of his Titan powers because being protector of earthrealm suits him better but him being weaker than the elder gods I don’t recall him saying that, especially since he’s able to fight off Cetrion in MK11, who is an elder god.

 

[Qawsedf234]

@SamanPatou i know he said he got rid of his Titan powers because being protector of earthrealm suits him better but him being weaker than the elder gods I don’t recall him saying that, especially since he’s able to fight off Cetrion in MK11, who is an elder god.

He says as Keeper of Time he's stronger than all the Eldar Gods combined.

But the Eldar Gods are ultra-trash since Centurion also killed them all and FG Liu Kang is stronger than she is. So as usual scaling is terrible.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

He says as Keeper of Time he's stronger than all the Eldar Gods combined.

But the Eldar Gods are ultra-trash since Centurion also killed them all and FG Liu Kang is stronger than she is. So as usual scaling is terrible.

Tbf Cetrion was an Elder Goddess to so it's believable that she could kill them. It's not like they made them getting defeated by the equivalent of Stryker or something

 

[Phsccarvalho]

But the Eldar Gods are ultra-trash since Centurion also killed them all and FG Liu Kang is stronger than she is. So as usual scaling is terrible.

I mean, it had the small bonus of Raiden's electricity, but I don't think it would change much. I think.

 

[KingTempest]

Hey so is New Era Scorpion going to be a Scorpion page or a Kuai Liang page?

That's an interesting question, I believe it should still be called Scorpion but be in Kuai Liang's tabber.

Hanzo and Kuai need their names to be their wiki names, like all the Spider-Men

Hanzo Hazashi and Kuai Liang, also Bi-Han and Tomas. Can't have the entire "scorpion" and "sub-zero" title under only 2 ppl.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Shouldn't we just make entirely new profiles for the characters? They're literally new versions from a new universe after all

 

[Qawsedf234]

Shouldn't we just make entirely new profiles for the characters? They're literally new versions from a new universe after all

They would need it as they're canonically different iterations lf the character and don't have access to any previous calc of the other two timelines.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

They would need it as they're canonically different iterations lf the character and don't have access to any previous calc of the other two timelines.

The obvious exceptions aside (FG Liu Kang and the other Titans), it's basically this. Yes, most have the same kind of abilities but almost all of them have a different background and some lack their counterparts abilities and different backgrounds (Shao Khan for example doesn't seem to have any expertise in magic outside of controlling his weapon and maybe a bit of energy manipulation, Johnny doesn't have the green energy anymore, Raiden is human instead of a god, Quan Chi is from Outworld instead of the Nether, Mileena is Sindel's biological daughter, etc), basically they're all entirely new characters

 

[CrackerVolley]

Shouldn't we just make entirely new profiles for the characters? They're literally new versions from a new universe after all

That is what we are doing. But we have those little boxes at the top of pages to direct people to other iterations of a character.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Yeah I know, I was just asking because some people might say these are the same characters but looking differently or something like that

 

[SamanPatou]

@SamanPatou i know he said he got rid of his Titan powers because being protector of earthrealm suits him better but him being weaker than the elder gods I don’t recall him saying that, especially since he’s able to fight off Cetrion in MK11, who is an elder god.

Here at 2.30.44, he recalls how the titan power made him stronger than all the EG, while now he is only a demi god, pretty much what Raiden was.
His fight with Cetrion also isn't a pure indication, since the Elder Gods were weakened by the time rupture (said a few times in 11) and at that time Liu was gradually discovering his and the jinsei's power, which eventually made him a titan.

 

[Theglassman12]

Doesn't him gradually discovering his powers still solidify that he's above an elder god in the first place since he's not fully used to it yet? Also I don't recall the elder gods being stated to grow weaker because of the time ruptures in 11, just that the gods' aren't affected by it in a weird way.

 

[KingTempest]

They would need it as they're canonically different iterations lf the character and don't have access to any previous calc of the other two timelines.

Wouldn't Liu Kang scale above his human self and possibly the others scale to that replica Sindel?

 

[SamanPatou]

Doesn't him gradually discovering his powers still solidify that he's above an elder god in the first place since he's not fully used to it yet? Also I don't recall the elder gods being stated to grow weaker because of the time ruptures in 11, just that the gods' aren't affected by it in a weird way.

Here at 47.10.
But even at his weakest, him being the fusion of two Lius and Raiden should make him stronger than Raiden alone by default.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

All this talk about scaling aside, does anyone know what Baraka's feat of ripping open a locked cage door yields in terms of lifting strength? I feel that Class K is still the norm for the MK1 roster but I'm curious what this will give

 

[SamanPatou]

That needs a calc, afaik it's difficult to tell by sight only.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

But even at his weakest, him being the fusion of two Lius and Raiden should make him stronger than Raiden alone by default.

Isn't his weakest point his mk1? Before restoring his full powers.

He no longer has the "Raiden" side of the fusion. The loss of his electrical powers shows this. Furthermore, he doesn't seem to use Jinsei.

So it would just be the fusion of two Liu Kang + the divinity that Raiden left behind.

 

[SamanPatou]

Yes, I was talking about MK11 only, when he gradually increases his power immediately after the fusion.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

For Liu Kang, I'd say

Champion of Earthrealm < Revenant < Protector of Earthrealm (MK1) < Time Keeper (MK1) < God of Fire and Thunder (MK11)

He likely got weaker after giving the Thunder powers back to Raiden, which would explain how Titan Shang Tsung (who's never stopped eating souls) managed to beat him with Quan Chi's help.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

For Liu Kang, I'd say

Champion of Earthrealm < Revenant < Protector of Earthrealm (MK1) < Time Keeper (MK1) < God of Fire and Thunder (MK11)

He likely got weaker after giving the Thunder powers back to Raiden, which would explain how Titan Shang Tsung (who's never stopped eating souls) managed to beat him with Quan Chi's help.

I'd say Titan ST could defeat him simply because he's that powerful, he's the Keeper of Time of his timeline so it would be logical for him to be equal

 

[Hellbeast]

I'd say Titan ST could defeat him simply because he's that powerful, he's the Keeper of Time of his timeline so it would be logical for him to be equal

Plus don’t forget he ate his version of Fire God Liu

 

[Greatsage13th]

Plus don’t forget he ate his version of Fire God Liu

Now that you mentioned that... wouldn't that mean mk1 KOTLK has much better scaling hence more powerful than he was previously back in mk11?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Plus don’t forget he ate his version of Fire God Liu

Plus Kronika and all the others and he doesn't seem to need the crown of Kronika by the new game yet can fight Titan LK

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Plus Kronika and all the others and he doesn't seem to need the crown of Kronika by the new game yet can fight Titan LK

Wonder what are they smoking when wanking Shang Tsung in MK11
Probably the peak version of him and it's justified, and Takagawa voiced him was a peak as well

 

[KLOL506]

Titan Shang Tsung prolly outgrew the Crown completely. It'd explain why Liu Kang was able to hold his own against Crown-Amped, Kronika-absorbed Shang Tsung.

 

[SamanPatou]

The mechanics of Shang's empowerment through soul absorption aren't linear, numerical or such, simply because they wouldn't add up otherwise. Liu Kang has himself, Raiden, his weaker self and the Jinsei, which probably gave him most of the bulk, as Shang in turn had his power and that of Shao, Sindel, Raiden, Fujin (only part of the latter two), Kronika (+Cetrion) and the Crown.

Anyway, the biggest gripe to deal with right now is the High 8-C scaling through MK11 Raiden, who appears as one of Titan Shang's croonies and gets clobbered by Mileena. Should we consider her stronger at that point, or allow backscaling to when got beaten by other people in previous instances?
The current heroes battle another bunch of Dark Timeliners, but unlike Dark Raiden they look like edgier versions of those from Liu Kang's timeline, so new people entirely (even though Shao uses his hammer instead of the axe).
Dark Sindel makes a clown out of Liu Kang, so that might be another reason to scale her to High 8-C.

 

[KLOL506]

I always thought of Sindel as an Edenian god worthy of scaling to the High 8-Cs.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Dark Sindel makes a clown out of Liu Kang, so that might be another reason to scale her to High 8-C.

Wouldn't that make everyone turn 8-C? Since Dark Sindil was defeated by Mileena who was defeated by a kenshi (without Sendo's boost) and Li Mei.

 

[SamanPatou]

Either that or we assume Mileena somehow grew stronger by that point. But even then, good Sindel was pretty much even to the evil one, she just got sucker punched, and she has little reasons to having grown stronger.

NRS once again causes headaches with circular scaling.