Moon level Naruto upgrade

[PrinceofPein]

Naruto was transformed in a part of his body,

Do you have prove it is Spsm?
Cause as far as canon is concerned even if he uses spsm slightly and even in base his eyes changes.
So this is your own head canon. unless you can bring an instance of naruto using spsm and his eyes did not change

 

[KingTempest]

Then why did she throw the Ash Bones at Naruto and Sasuke, that disintegrate people, that Kakashi & Obito had to intercept?

I don't know ask Kishimoto.

You mean the fatigued Pain?

You mean the one who could've stabbed him right here?

Yes, actually. Kisame is consistently stronger than Bee, he only lost because:

A. He was holding back.
B. Samehada betrayed him.

Not holding back, not wanting to kill ≠ not holding back.

Yes, he was holding back, considering we literally saw how students could inflict fatal damage in the same exam (Sasuke putting a Chidori in Gaara).

So Naruto and Neji held back when they did this?

And Sasuke held back against Naruto in the first VoTE fight since he didn't slice his neck when Naruto was incapacitated?

You don't have to kill to fight somebody

 

[KingTempest]

Do you have prove it is Spsm?
Cause as far as canon is concerned even if he uses spsm slightly and even in base his eyes changes.
So this is your own head canon. unless you can bring an instance of naruto using spsm and his eyes did not change

Quote where I said he used SPSM.

I never said he used SPSM in that moment. I said it's a possibility which I won't dwell on.

I said he used Sage Mode, via a statement saying he used ALL HIS MIGHT.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

No because you can still be in the same tier while having a clear hierarchy of strength that would be easy to understand.

It doesn't matter if they're in the same tier. The proposal wanted to make base Naruto scale off of people who scale to his SPSM, and then have these same people scale to his SPSM with a certain power up applied to it.
The only way any of it would make sense is if we say that SPSM + KCM is essentially = to base Naruto, or in the same ballpark more or less.
Admittedly, Boruto's trash scaling has made that option kind of unavoidable with all of these feats that base Naruto has.
But yeah, in any case, scaling with the SM multiplier doesn't work here any way we slice it.

 

[PrinceofPein]

What the hell is wrong with people saying sasuke is just base naruto equal??
And no the scaling does not become wonky
Sasuke scales to spsm naruto
base momoshiki got overwhelmed by base Naruto.
Fused momoshiki overwhelmed base naruto.
spsm naruto and Rinnegan sasuke bodied fused momoshiki.
Spsm Naruto >= fused momoshiki = Rinnegan sasuke >>>>>>>>Base naruto >= Base momoshiki

where are you seeing the circular scaling?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Quote where I said he used SPSM.

I never said he used SPSM in that moment. I said it's a possibility which I won't dwell on.

I said he used Sage Mode, via a statement saying he used ALL HIS MIGHT.

All his might means physical strength here tho, the novel even went ahead and described what happened to the ground naruto stepped on while using all his might.
and literally nothing says it is SM.
So please let us drop asuumptions

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

It doesn't matter if they're in the same tier. The proposal wanted to make base Naruto scale off of people who scale to his SPSM, and then have these same people scale to his SPSM with a certain power up applied to it.

Naruto would be scaling below them, not to them, it's just that the difference isn't wide enough to Justify a different tier. because Base Naruto is still clearly Highlighted as Ultimately being weaker.
also the scaling in the anime is much clearer.

 

[KingTempest]

All his might means physical strength here tho, the novel even went ahead and described what happened to the ground naruto stepped on while using all his might.
and literally nothing says it is SM.
So please let us drop asuumptions

And he can amp his strength with chakra, WHICH HE CANONICALLY DID, so what is your argument?

Let's drop assumptions. He used all his might in his fist via all his chakra that he had as his disposal.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I don't know ask Kishimoto.

Fantastic argument.

You mean the one who could've stabbed him right here?

Yes, because he wanted his Biju, not to kill him. The fact that he didn’t stab Naruto’s skull proved that.

Not holding back, not wanting to kill ≠ not holding back.

Circular argument. Just as a reminder, he did the same to Kid Naruto, threatening to cut off his limbs.

And Sasuke held back against Naruto in the first VoTE fight since he didn't slice his neck when Naruto was incapacitated?

What an absolutely embarrassing argument.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

the Chakra that overpowers Toneri's beam is KCM naruto's because of the gold color in his fist, and no it's not because of Manga Naruto's chakra being yellow because Naruto's Rasengan earlier in the movie is blue and so is the Rasengan at the end of the movie.

 

[PrinceofPein]

And he can amp his strength with chakra, WHICH HE CANONICALLY DID, so what is your argument?

yeah KCM

Let's drop assumptions. He used all his might in his fist via all his chakra that he had as his disposal.

Nah, Head Canon, he still had way and way more chakra enough to recover Toneri

And i am not interested in going in a round about, please bring ur scans

 

[DuDE01010]

Jugo is transformed in a part of his body. Naruto was transformed in a part of his body, his fist, via the non contradicted statement.

The last Naruto was not in anyway transformed. Even in the failed scan you posted one of Naruto's eyes were still toad eyes. The statement doesn't prove anything at all, since your forming up modes on the fly that never exists.

"All his Might Naruto", damn Naruto channeling SM, KCM, SPSM, ther Bijus, Kurama avatar and Assura avatar all to beat Toneri. What a beast.

Looking forward to your Toneri is the second strongest in the verse CRT

Naruto wasn't channeling senjutsu in base against Juubito, he wasn't channeling anything. He used it for his whole body because there's no reason for him not to. You act like he was in his regular size doing regular taijutsu when he had to maintain an entire bijuu.

So what your saying is that base Naruto can't channel senjutsu. Exactly my point.

Not even adding on to the fact that SPSM wanked his chakra control to make him do shit like that, which is why he was doing 1 handed super rasenshurikens and such.

So your arguments are full of false equivalences and ignoring arguments.

No clue what your rambling on here.

There can be so many more reasons why he used SM + KCM instead of "he didn't need to", that's fully your own headcanon.

Well go on then.

I could really argue that he used SPSM too focused in specific places since he was flying and high fiving truth seeking orbs, but i won't cause I don't feel like changing the argument.

Headcanon city over here. Now Naruto can use SPSM into parts of his body while in different modes? ok lol

Flying huh, damn the rocks on the moon has SPSM too now?

TSBS can be countered via senjutsu. Like what are you saying?

Am I referring to that scene? No.

I referenced it lol. Don't take credit for that bro.

Let's drop every calc that uses the anime then since the anime has some incorrect portrayals then.

Brave.

What in the hell are you even talking about?

You said Naruto used all his might, so clearly Toneri is the strongest person he's faced.

Can you prove this has anything to do with the issue at hand? Nobody said him being unable to control it makes a difference
A portion of his face isn't transformed, which means the senjutsu chakra isn't there.

And a portion of his face is transformed signifying he's not in base form anymore. Let's stop beating around the bush and show me base Naruto having a 10x boost.

Even Madara had some sections without Senjutsu chakra when he was ripping it from Hashirama.

Now his hand is focusing all his chakra. Occams Razor proves that the chakra is in his hand.

Madara is absorbing Hashirama's and literally transformed into sage mode, why are you acting blind lol.

Your argument is "we don't see marks around his eyes" when the chakra has no reason to be in his eyes in that moment.

Except that's how different forms are depicted so this is just a you problem. Provide evidence Naruto can use SM in base.

 

[KingTempest]

So everyone's just ignoring arguments huh, aight

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

No, you’re actually being dishonest and cognitively blind to fit your nonexistent points.

 

[KingTempest]

No, you’re actually being dishonest and cognitively blind to fit your nonexistent points.

 

[Teezar]

I agree with the OP.......100%
Why is it ******* taking time to make our favourite hokage low 5-B.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I agree with the OP.......100%
Why is it ******* taking time to make our favourite hokage low 5-B.

because he isnt low 5-B

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

I agree with the OP.......100%
Why is it ******* taking time to make our favourite hokage low 5-B.

I know, Tobirama should be low 5-b.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

̶w̶e̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶l̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶B̶o̶r̶u̶t̶o̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶s̶e̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶s̶c̶a̶l̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶f̶e̶a̶t̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶s̶t̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶n̶a̶r̶u̶t̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶L̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶M̶o̶v̶i̶e̶

7-C Ishikki.

 

[DuDE01010]

Quote where I said he used SPSM.

I never said he used SPSM in that moment. I said it's a possibility which I won't dwell on.

I said he used Sage Mode, via a statement saying he used ALL HIS MIGHT.

Tempest you're literally picking and choosing the argument. You're saying Naruto used all his might but is only including SM and KCM despite the fact 'all his might' would include SPSM and the other bijuu as well.

But you won't do that since even you realize that just dumb and contradicts everything.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

the Chakra that overpowers Toneri's beam is KCM naruto's because of the gold color in his fist, and no it's not because of Manga Naruto's chakra being yellow because Naruto's Rasengan earlier in the movie is blue and so is the Rasengan at the end of the movie.

The Rasengan is blue for the majority of the anime??

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with the OP.......100%
Why is it ******* taking time to make our favourite hokage low 5-B.

This kind of attitude is why these threads end in failure.

Stop making this a competition to make characters have higher and higher ratings all the time.

 

[KingTempest]

I don't know why people respond after I say a closing statement.

Tempest you're literally picking and choosing the argument. You're saying Naruto used all his might but is only including SM and KCM despite the fact 'all his might' would include SPSM and the other bijuu as well.

Ok.
All his might = SPSM then.

Thank you.

Unfollowing.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

The Rasengan is blue for the majority of the anime??

Yes?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yes?

So it’s an inconsistency in the translation of anime from manga. That in no way means that it’s Kurama’s chakra.

 

[DuDE01010]

I don't know why people respond after I say a closing statement.

Ok.
All his might = SPSM then.

Thank you.

Unfollowing.

No worries happy to help. I'm happy to see another person who appreciates how strong Toneri is and sees him as the second strongest character in the verse.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

My argument is: Naruto at the Valley of the End would be Moon level. He clashed with Sasuke, who was out to kill Naruto, after he attained the Rinnegan and had already grown accustomed to his superpower, post-Kaguya fight, and then proceeded to battle him to near-death after they clashed their avatars together; of course, in the latter half of that slugfest, Naruto struck Sasuke in the face and damaged his eye, but he still fought with a, albeit weakened, Rinnegan Sasuke. Even then, his Rinnegan was just damaged—really, it was just his face and not his actual eye—not destroyed, so he would still have some power; as Kurama noted, his Rinnegan had simply weakened. Along with that, Hagoromo previously shared half of his own power with Naruto, which enabled him to use Six Paths Sage Mode.

Although, you could completely destroy this argument by downscaling Rinnegan Sasuke's physicals to below Moon level, which would not work, given the Rinnegan grants the wielder a power boost, and a god-like one at that.

Now, this is where a lot of people get turned off.

Funnily enough, the current scaling itself is kinda circular. Kaguya is superior to Hagoromo, who needed to combine his powers with those of his brother Hamura in order to seal her away. Madara, with one Rinnegan, was stated to have been approaching Hagoromo's power. Hagoromo then shared half of his power with Naruto and half of his power with Sasuke, who then battled with Madara, and then again after he acquired a second Rinnegan. Rather or not Madara reached Hagoromo's level after acquiring the full power of the Rinnegan is up for debate, but that does not matter, because Naruto and Sasuke then go onto battle with Kaguya, and actually held their own against her, Naruto especially, before sealing her away with the power that Hagoromo gave them. What that means is: One Rinnegan Madara (approaching Hagoromo's power) < Dual Rinnegan Madara < Hagoromo < SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke (with 50% of Hagoromo's power) ~< Kaguya < SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke's combined forces (100% of Hagoromo's power) ~ Hagoromo and Hamura's combined forces. Right?

If Sasuke scales to Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto, how come base Naruto scales to him?
That's a good question. I have no answer. The only solution I have is to ditch their slugfest altogether—just act like it never happened even though it did.
Or we could actually downgrade his physicals, since Nagato wasn't 5-C.

But of course, that's War Arc Naruto.

Adult Naruto scales above base Momoshiki for being able to briefly hold his own against Fused Momoshiki, although he ultimately felt the need to use Six Paths Sage Mode against him. Momoshiki also considered Naruto's chakra ridiculously enormous as he drained him and even gave up half-way through because extracting Naruto's chakra was taking too long. He also briefly boxed with Delta in his base, although Delta was not really trying there, so he would not scale using that.

That's really all I got. I'm groggy.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

So it’s an inconsistency in the translation of anime from manga. That in no way means that it’s Kurama’s chakra.

The Last Naruto isnt a Manga, it's an Original piece that happens to be canon to the manga but uses the anime as it's Visual representation, we cant just cherry-pick what is and isn't consistent, if the movie was trying to be faithful to the manga then all the rasengans would be yellow.

 

[DuDE01010]

̶w̶e̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶l̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶B̶o̶r̶u̶t̶o̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶s̶e̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶s̶c̶a̶l̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶f̶e̶a̶t̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶s̶t̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶n̶a̶r̶u̶t̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶L̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶M̶o̶v̶i̶e̶

7-C Ishikki.

That'll be a disaster (and funny). We're never getting any good feats in Boruto that doesn't rely on scaling.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Can we just have an Otsutsuki destroy a planet already?

 

[DuDE01010]

Can we just have an Otsutsuki destroy a planet already?

Laughs in Ikemoto.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Can someone sum up why destroying the Giant Tenseigan isn’t 5-C? I see it looks to have been dropped in conversation but I must’ve missed the debunk.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Tempest's argument is that Naruto only destroyed the container but not the Tenseigan itself.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Tempest's argument is that Naruto only destroyed the container but not the Tenseigan itself.

check your DM, I can get a scan of toneri saying it is a very powerful chakra that holds and protect the teisengan

 

[BlackeJan]

The manga literally had Part I Naruto chakra gold. Idk what was going on through the animators head if they had him throw golden FRS in base then had him use blue chakra

Anyways what’s even going on here? this should be about Base Naruto, not using a SM multipler for goodness sakes

and again, there is a calc from Taka years ago that he did but it needs to be recalced

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Wasn’t it going to survive the moon-earth crash that would destroy the earth? Wouldn’t the protective container be the reason it survives?

@BlackeJan link the calc?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Wasn’t it going to survive the moon-earth crash that would destroy the earth? Wouldn’t the protective container be the reason it survives?

yes lol

 

[Damage3245]

Wasn’t it going to survive the moon-earth crash that would destroy the earth? Wouldn’t the protective container be the reason it survives?

@BlackeJan link the calc?

That wouldn't necessarily be a Moon level feat since we don't know how much energy that it is actually being hit by. It's not like it'd be at the center of the collision.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Looking thru all this the only argument for base Naruto being tier 5 that doesn’t lead to scaling issues seems to be base Nards > Tenseigan container = 5-C or whatever a moon-earth busting crash is.

 

[BlackeJan]

Wasn’t it going to survive the moon-earth crash that would destroy the earth? Wouldn’t the protective container be the reason it survives?

@BlackeJan link the calc?

It’s hard to find it but I’ll do my best. I remember the calc being Low 5B but like I said again it’s gonna need to be recalced