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Moon level Naruto upgrade

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StrawHatArslan said:
Probably one of the last messages I'm gonna make in a while, but there was no need to say "Well, tempest got clapped hard, F." Tempest wouldn't know if you're joking or not since this is based off of text, whatever you say online can be inferred in anyway possible, unless you give context behind it. Of course this isn't such a big thing, but you're talking about being able to cheer or point things out. You could've said that in a more respectful manner, instead of making it seem like you're tryting to instigate. Of course I don't think you're antagonizing, but still what you did isn't really the right thing. Just pointing out my opinion, it's fine to get heated in debates, but at this point it was over fam, if it wasn't over then getting heated at times and being annoyed is fine, coming from someone who gets heated in debates as well.
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Damage3245 said:
FYI being warned about your behaviour then responding with "I'm just going to keep acting like that anyway" is a really poor approach to participating on the forums.

Take warnings more seriously going forwards or you may actually end up banned in the future.
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Welp, while I still think "Antagonizing" is a very strong word to use, I need to concede here.

It wasn't meant to be disrespectful, in a personal way, more like a little joke. (As I tried to communicate with how I made the phrase in a jokingly manner), but you are right. I shouldn't have done it, Tempest had little to no clue that it was supposed to be a joke. I'm not trying to excuse my behavior anymore, just saying where I was coming from.

Either way, I'mma hold that L and better myself from now on.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Welp, while I still think "Antagonizing" is a very strong word to use, I need to concede here.

It wasn't meant to be disrespectful, in a personal way, more like a little joke. (As I tried to communicate with how I made the phrase in a jokingly manner), but you are right. I shouldn't have done it, Tempest had little to no clue that it was supposed to be a joke. I'm not trying to excuse my behavior anymore, just saying where I was coming from.

Either way, I'mma hold that L and better myself from now on.
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I don’t think you were antagonizing either, the policies on this wiki are way too strict at times. Massive respect to you from me though.
 
Can't we consider Base Naruto holding his own against Fused Momoshiki an Outlier/PIS and move on? Like, why isn't this being brought up as an option? Because regardless of a multiplier, it's still nonsensical.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Can't we consider Base Naruto holding his own against Fused Momoshiki an Outlier/PIS and move on? Like, why isn't this being brought up as an option? Because regardless of a multiplier, it's still nonsensical.
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Could be the case, He was drained of chakra, and also should be rusty overall.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
The hell-..
Well, I guess Boruto got the DBS Syndrome.
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Not just Boruto. It's been a thing since the original.
GodlyCharmander said:
Since I'm sort of ignorant about the matter, can you give me examples of that being the case?
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Shippuden (Rinnegan Sasuke)​

Base Naruto clashed with Rinnegan Sasuke, who can send SPSM+KCM Naruto flying dozens of meters away

Boruto (Momoshiki)​

Base Naruto got kicked in the face through a stadium by Momoshiki and isn't hurt (anime).
Base Naruto fought against Momoshiki and took hits from him (anime and manga).
Base Naruto kept up with Momoshiki, dodged some hits, etc (anime and manga).

Boruto (Delta)​

Base Naruto kept up with Delta (anime and manga).
Base Naruto took hits from Delta and could slam her into the ground (manga).
Base Naruto was comparable to Delta in speed (anime and manga).

Boruto (Jigensshiki)​

Base Naruto could take a kick from Jigen (anime and manga).
Base Naruto kicked Isshiki in his face and left a wound (manga).
Base Naruto took a few knees from Isshiki (manga).
 
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No one learns from Naruto 🙁
giphy.gif

Naruto is 10-A without Chakra but with Chakra + his power emotion, he can be 4-B - 3-A 😎
 
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Wasn't his base form already supposed to vary with 5-C being his peak since he can use chakra from his other forms without needing to transform?
 
Nullflowerblush said:
No, you are reading that correctly. Yes, this is a bait. This is an attempt to upgrade base Naruto to 5-C.

Main Argument: Destroying the Tenseigan​



Hamura's Tenseigan was protected for thousands of years by a curse that would instantly drain the Chakra of those who lacked the blood of Hamura, which in this case would be Naruto. Hinata, who is of Hamura's blood, attempted to strike down the Tenseigan, only to be outright rejected, lacking the strength to destroy the superpower.



Upon realizing Hinata was powerless against Hamura's Tenseigan, he came up with the plan to combine Hinata's ability to touch the Tenseigan with his overwhelming power in order to completely destroy the eye. So, they combined their Chakra, powered up an attack, and crashed into the Tenseigan, with their combined might destroying the eye completely.

Here is the thing: most of this was Naruto's doing.
  1. Hinata herself was not able to even "scratch" Hamura's Tenseigan, let alone damage it; however, after combining her powers with Naruto's, they could destroy it.
  2. The novel explicitly states that the heavy lifting was done by Naruto's own "massive amount of chakra".
This is important because the Tenseigan had the power to push the Moon into the Earth. Naruto implicitly stated that the Tenseigan was the force driving the Moon into the Earth in this very scene, and when the Tenseigan was destroyed, the Moon stopped moving and only continued moving after Toneri awakened his own Tenseigan.

And lastly, Toneri stated that the Chakra of Hamura's Tenseigan was powerful enough to move the Moon into the Earth.

What this means is:
  1. Hamura's Tenseigan's Chakra was so powerful that it could move the Moon and push it into the Earth.
  2. That Chakra was much more powerful than Hinata's, hence why she failed to destroy it.
  3. However, Naruto's Chakra was powerful enough to destroy Hamura's Tenseigan, resulting in the Moon halting, temporarily saving the world.
Naruto > Hamura's Tenseigan = Moon level >>> Hinata.

And, before you attempt to argue that "Naruto borrowed power from Kurama with this attack", no. Nothing, not even the novelization, proves or states that Naruto borrowed Kurama's power. In fact, the novel states this was done with Naruto's own Chakra. And when Naruto borrows power from Kurama, his arm glows the same way his body does in Kurama Chakra Mode, as seen here and here; however, in the initial rescue, in the third confrontation with Toneri (Naruto even says its his Chakra when it is sucked out), and while destroying Hamura's Tenseigan, his arm, which would be golden if he were borrowing Kurama's power, was completely normal.
All excerpts of the The Last: Naruto the Movie novelization come from here.​

Secondary Argument: Vs Momoshiki​

Naruto briefly battled with Fused Momoshiki in his base form, clashing with him, dodging his attacks, taking his attacks, and reacting to him from close range. On its own, this means nothing, and many would be quick to point out that this scaling does not work, arguing that Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto is comparable to Momoshiki.

However, Naruto and Sasuke were virtually rawdogging him once they got serious, which is further emphasized in the anime, with the two of them literally just knocking Momoshiki around and throwing him across the map once they really got into the battle; and, honestly, the two of them did not even seem like they were giving it their all, as they were laughing and giggling and just screwing around with Momoshiki the entire time; yes, they were serious, but they were obviously not "Jigen serious". Naruto also had his energy drained for quite some time (for reference, the audience of the Chunin Exams had time to black out and then wake up in the hospital), so he obviously was not giving it his all.

So, trying to argue against Naruto closely downscaling from Fused Momoshiki on the basis that Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto is comparable to Fused Momoshiki is moot, considering Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto and Rinne-Sharingan Sasuke were actually portrayed as superior to him.

Tertiary Arguments​

Boruto's Ninja Encyclopedia​

According to the Ninja Encyclopedia, Naruto possesses a 110 in Strength, whereas Sasuke has a 130, meaning that Naruto is in the same ballpark as him.

The reason this is a tertiary argument, though, is because the Ninja Encyclopedia is incredibly unreliable. For example, Boruto, Sarada, and Mitsuki have Strength values that are nearing those of Naruto and Sasuke, even though they are only Genin at the time. Of course, you could argue that their stats only apply to the other Genin, which is a fair argument. But then, there is also Sakura, who possesses a 100 in Strength, placing her close to the level of Naruto and Sasuke, which obviously is not true.

These Ninja Encyclopedia are all covering these characters in their normal states, unless stated otherwise, like with Ao or Kawaki, so Sakura in her normal state possessing a combat ability in the same range as Sasuke, who would be 5-C at this point, is nonsense, considering with the Byakugan in the Great Ninja War, she was casually intercepted by Dual Rinnegan Madara and could not budge against his Limbo clone, unless you actually consider her punching a distracted Kaguya as a feat worthy to place her there.

Yes, the New Era takes place many years into the future, but Sakura was given the Gohan treatment and has settled down in the Blank Period of peace. She has not trained over the years because she was busy raising a family.

So, take this with a grain of salt.

Conclusions​

Adult Naruto scales to 5-C, based on the fact that:
  1. He is more powerful than Hamura's Tenseigan, which is powerful enough to move the Moon.
  2. He could briefly hold his own against a Fused Momoshiki, even after having his energy drained for quite some time.
  3. According to the Ninja Encyclopedia, he possesses strength in the same range as adult Sasuke.
Of course, seeing as how Sage Mode is a ten-times amp, he would scale to 1.99258436 zettatons of tnt or Low 5-B with it, with Kurama Chakra Mode and above, since the Wiki accepts KCM as being superior to Sage Mode, being higher up in the chart.
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I’m pretty sure the sage mode multiplier got axed but she 100% should be moon level in base
 
sageof8paths said:
not only that but ghost hagoromo gave half of his chakra to naruto and that naruto is capable of ripping kaguya’s hand off and ****** her up with rasenshirukens
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Is that your only problem? An enraged Naruto using a Chakra Claw to rip off her hand, and hitting her with 9 Rasenshurikens that mostly bruised her and damaged her clothes after she was stated to haved used a lot of Chakra dimension hopping?
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
Is that your only problem? An enraged Naruto using a Chakra Claw to rip off her hand, and hitting her with 9 Rasenshurikens that mostly bruised her and damaged her clothes after she was stated to haved used a lot of Chakra dimension hopping?
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My problem is that if kaguya truly scaled to or above ghost hagoromo, she likely would have overpowered the seal
 
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