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Oh thank you for the compliment!
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Moon level Naruto upgrade
- Thread starter Nullflowerblush
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Unless my argument counters it, I still agree.
I was informed to come because of Tenseigan boom boom stuff.
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Reio. You’re really upping the stupidity each time.
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Fair, but then again this is a Naruto thread.
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Okay don't insult someone like that, We were joking with KingTempest.
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No, it was about Reio that always comes to Naruto threads to act like that
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He’s just using his chakra.
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Ahhh so base naruto has golden chakra and not blue? Okay got u
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,792
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- #55
I completely missed that Valley of the End point.
So:
He uses a golden Rasengan here, too. Even his Rasenshuriken was golden, just like in the manga.
So:
- Briefly held his own against a Fused Momoshiki, which should put him above base Momoshiki, at the very least.
- Momoshiki also commented on how enormous his energy was when he was draining Naruto, but that could also be in reference to Kurama.
- Clashed with Rinnegan Sasuke, who is Moon level, at the Valley of the End.
- Engaged in an intense slugfest with Rinnegan Sasuke; albeit, while the two were heavily weakened.
Yes, actually.
He uses a golden Rasengan here, too. Even his Rasenshuriken was golden, just like in the manga.
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Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,792
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- Thread starter
- #56
maybe naruto does have reactive power level after all
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People usually be confused about this because they prolly only watched the anime that chakra is usually blue, but The Last movie used golden/yellow, which is the way that the manga treats
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Doesn't Sage Mode Naruto body One Rinnegan Madara, the one that got bodied by Eight Gates Guy using Night Guy? Could that be used to justify his rating?
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The argument about him faced with fused Momoshiki, and Sasuke in the valley of the end seems to me to be a circular scale, or not?
Base Naruto (Shippuden/Boruto) is 5-C for managing to keep up with Sasuke and Momoshiki fused. And in Sage Mode he is Low 5-B. And so Sasuke and Momoshiki scale to Low 5-B for being equivalent of Naruto Rikudō (who is much stronger than himself in Sage Mode). This basically makes:
Naruto Base = Sasuke/fused Momoshiki < Naruto Sage < Naruto Rikudō = Sasuke/fused Momoshiki...
In Sasuke's case. So let's just assume Shippuden's Sasuke is at least 10x weaker than: Madara Jin (all phases), Kaguya, Naruto (since Sage Mode) and Guy 8th Gates????
Base Naruto (Shippuden/Boruto) is 5-C for managing to keep up with Sasuke and Momoshiki fused. And in Sage Mode he is Low 5-B. And so Sasuke and Momoshiki scale to Low 5-B for being equivalent of Naruto Rikudō (who is much stronger than himself in Sage Mode). This basically makes:
Naruto Base = Sasuke/fused Momoshiki < Naruto Sage < Naruto Rikudō = Sasuke/fused Momoshiki...
In Sasuke's case. So let's just assume Shippuden's Sasuke is at least 10x weaker than: Madara Jin (all phases), Kaguya, Naruto (since Sage Mode) and Guy 8th Gates????
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I agree with 5-C base Naruto.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,792
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- #62
Naruto at the end of the series is 5-C for equaling Sasuke in strength, who contributed half of the Chibaku Tensei and received half of Hagoromo's power.
With Six Paths Sage Mode, he would be well into Low 5-B, and the only person in the original series who scales to that is Sasuke's Susano'o.
Sasuke then absorbed the Chakra from the Tailed Beasts and reached the level of Hagoromo, making him more powerful than Naruto. However, Naruto managed to reach his level of strength again by drawing in all of the available nature energy in the area.
Then, of course, a couple of years into the future, Naruto briefly battles with Fused Momoshiki but feels the need to use Six Paths Sage Mode against him, so he obviously does not scale to Fused Momoshiki completely. As the Hokage, Naruto had little wiggle room to train and such, but he know that he is, at least, no longer rusty like he was in Naruto Gaiden and obviously put some effort into upkeeping his strength over the years.
Sasuke had time to train and do battle between Naruto and Boruto, so he has obviously grown stronger over the years. He held his own against Fused Momshiki, but Naruto did most of the heavy lifting, especially in the anime, so he also does not fully scale to Momoshiki; however, he did perform better than base Naruto.
This is also a good point, although worded kinda funky.
Hagoromo shared half of his power with Naruto, and half of his power with Sasuke, along with giving them their special Six Paths abilities. That alone should be enough justification for 5-C Naruto, but on top of that, in Sage Mode—a measly ten-times amp—he managed to nearly kill One Rinnegan Madara, who at that point was steadily approaching Hagoromo's level of power. He should at least be in the High 6-A+ ballpark based on that alone.
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Why does only Sasuke scale? If you are proposing that Naruto Base is 5-C in the Shippuden, that would make it Low 5-B in Sage Mode. Not only Sasuke with Susanoo would scale, Madara Jinchuuriki would also scale (Directly blocked Naruto's attack with the Rikudō mode after duel with Guy). Kaguya would also scale (obvious reasons), and Guy would also scale (Burst the Madara who managed to block Naruto's attack in Rikudō Mode). This puts Madara Jinchuuriki 1 Rinnegan at Low 5-B, for being able to block an attack from Naruto Rikudō who is above himself in Sage Mode.
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Naruto used SPSM for that.
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Where did he almost kill Madara with a mere Sage Mode? Naruto was using Rikudō + Kurama Chakra Mode. See his eyes again, he just wasn't wearing the "mantle" (so obviously he wasn't at his peack), but he still had a lot more power than a measly Sage Mode. He was in "KN0" + Rikudō Mode. Similar to the time he got like this in the fight with Nagato.
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Seems kind of confusing. Wouldn't Rinnegan Sasuke (with or without Susanoo) as an adult also scale to Low 5-B since he's irrevocably equal to SPSM Naruto? If he was any weaker, he wouldn't be keeping up with Naruto against Momoshiki or Isshiki/Jigen. Especially considering how blatantly their avatars are portrayed very equally with each other in their VotE fight, and during the Isshiki fight.
If this was greenlighted, I think Sasuke should be Low 5-B as well.
If this was greenlighted, I think Sasuke should be Low 5-B as well.
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It's just SPSM. Toad sage mode + kurama chakra has pigmentation around the eyes.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,792
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- Thread starter
- #69
He blocked a punch but was still almost overpowered; he was shweatin' and everything.
That Madara could not do anything against Naruto. He had to absorb the God Tree in order to increase his strength; however, how much power he gained from the God Tree is unknown. Still, One Rinnegan Madara has no reason to completely scale to Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto or Sasuke, especially considering he never managed to get any hits in on the two of them. The only feats he demonstrated in that fight was knocking Naruto away once and then having his Limbo take their Rasen-Chidori. Hell, even when he acquired both of the Rinnegan, he was still being upstaged by Naruto, who took on his Limbo clones, who are as powerful as he is, and destroyed his meteors without breaking a sweat, really.
You're right. My bad.
Why is this argument?
You do not have to equals with somebody to battle an opponent alongside them. And even then, Sasuke's performance, both in the manga and the anime, paled in comparison to Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto, who was doing all of the heavy lifting. Sasuke got one kick in while he was stunned by Naruto, and then used a bunch of Ninja Tools and Space-Time Ninjutsu in order to distract him, whereas Naruto was the one getting in all the punches and knocking him around and whatnot. In the manga, his performance is even worse, since he got one good strike in after Naruto punched him, and then was almost immediately captured and needed Naruto to free him from Momoshiki's snake thingies.
Why are their avatars indicative of their own combat ability? The Susano'o is portrayed countless times as being superior to its user's own stats, and the Wiki accepts the Susano'o as such. Sasuke being able to generate a Susano'o that is comparable to Six Path Sage Mode Naruto's Kurama Avatar, which would literally just be his own power but in the form of a Tailed Beast, since Kurama Mode already allows him to utilize 100% of Kurama's power, does not mean that Sasuke is comparable to Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto.
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The Databook differentiates the two, and says SPSM provides much more chakra than Kurama Mode. Naruto combines two powers, the SPSM and the Kurama Chakra.
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Did you even read what I said? I mentioned that if Naruto is 5-C, he with a mere Sage Mode is already Low 5-B, and that would make Madara scale, as he blocked a direct attack from Naruto SPSM, which is much stronger than Naruto Sage Mode. This makes Madara 10x above Sasuke...
About this, in a translation I saw, it is said that limbos have ALMOST the same abilities as the original. It doesn't say they have the same attributes. We'll probably need to get the Japanese scan and ask for a translation here on the Wiki.
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So suddenly you go with the argument that SPSM Naruto is actually superior to Rinnegan Sasuke? Which is blatantly false in both feats and portrayals. You're literally going against the general belief on this wiki.
The only fight which SPSM Naruto outshone Sasuke was during the Kaguya fight, but only because he was BFR'd, and didn't had that much chance to do anything for most of it. And also bloodlusted Naruto BS.
Regarding the VotE fight, Sasuke's Rinnegan was 100% useless, to the point where it made his eye bleed just from attempting to use it. I don't think weakened base Naruto keeping up with a weakened base Sasuke is indicative of base Naruto being comparable to Rinnegan Sasuke in any conceivable way. Just because the Rinnegan wasn't visually deactivated doesn't mean it was amping him during that fight (It couldn't be deactivated anyway). It was, for all intents and purposes, base Naruto vs base Sasuke, not base Naruto vs Rinnegan Sasuke.
So if 5-C base Naruto becomes a thing, 5-C base Sasuke would also be a thing, essentially just straight up making Rinnegan Sasuke Low 5-B scaling from SPSM Naruto.
The only fight which SPSM Naruto outshone Sasuke was during the Kaguya fight, but only because he was BFR'd, and didn't had that much chance to do anything for most of it. And also bloodlusted Naruto BS.
So just because Naruto got more hits in this immediately means he's superior to Sasuke? This is illogical, especially considering Sasuke physically kept up during the fight, as well as the Momoshiki fight. Also, you're arguing like using his space-time Ninjutsu isn't part of his usual arsenal. Remember, Sasuke isn't a brawler. Just because he tactically does not engage as much as Naruto doesn't mean he's any weaker.
The wiki literally accepts the Avatar as a power-up, so your point is moot. Regardless, Sasuke's Susano'o is blatantly equal to Naruto's avatar, which means Rinnegan Sasuke is most definitely comparable to SPSM Naruto. Unless, you're gonna suggest that the Susano'o gives an even bigger power-up to Sasuke than SPSM does to Naruto.
Regarding the VotE fight, Sasuke's Rinnegan was 100% useless, to the point where it made his eye bleed just from attempting to use it. I don't think weakened base Naruto keeping up with a weakened base Sasuke is indicative of base Naruto being comparable to Rinnegan Sasuke in any conceivable way. Just because the Rinnegan wasn't visually deactivated doesn't mean it was amping him during that fight (It couldn't be deactivated anyway). It was, for all intents and purposes, base Naruto vs base Sasuke, not base Naruto vs Rinnegan Sasuke.
So if 5-C base Naruto becomes a thing, 5-C base Sasuke would also be a thing, essentially just straight up making Rinnegan Sasuke Low 5-B scaling from SPSM Naruto.
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Naruto combines SPSM and Kurama chakra to make this:
Naruto combines Toad Sage mode and Kurama chakra to make this:
This is what he used against Madara. This is SPSM:
This is what he used against Nagato. This is Toad Sage mode + KN0:
The pigmentation aground the eyes is how you tell if he's using Toad Sage Mode + KCM or SPSM + KCM.
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I know. But why is Kurama's eye present here? At no point did I say anything about Toad Sage Mode, and yes that he used KN0 + SPSM. It's the only justification for Kurama's eye being present.This is what he used against Madara. This is SPSM:
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You mentioned Nagato, hence why I bought in SM as well. You'll have to ask Kishimoto on why he chose that design. But that's just SPSM there is not kurama involved. If there's any KN0 involvement his whiskers would be thicker.
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You’re forgetting Kurama’s chakra is part of the SPs, which was originally the Ten Tails.
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As well as all nine bijuus. Why just her eye there?
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VotE fight?
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If you assume that Kurama's eye is present because of the design, it leaves a margin for me to assume that the absence of the "thick whiskers" is also due to the design...
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As adults. I could see SPSM Naruto during the power-up as being somewhat superior considering it was made clear that Sasuke's Rinnegan was gimped and "new".
I was just making it clear that Naruto engaging in fisticuffs more than Sasuke is not an absolute indication of SPSM Naruto's superiority to Rinnegan Sasuke.
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