Monster Queen Vs. Alien Queen // Toriel vs. Xenomorph Queen (Undertale Vs. Alien)

[XxZetsuxX]

I personally think the Queen would just outsmart Toriel upon seeing her supernatural abilities and play it more safely to win but it really does depend on who can land the first strike on the other since that's all either needs to get their combos going so I guess I'm gonna vote Incon.

I told you so, Either queen CQC and acid attacks, Or Toriel just two shots her XD

 

[koopa3144]

Honestly I think Xeno Queen takes this more often than not. If she decides to rush Tori I think she can close that gap before Tori gets enough hits to kill her. If Queen acid spits at Tori when the fight begins it will likely stun her and keep her from unleashing her Danmaku. And if she feels threatened she can retreat and go for a stealth attack and Tori has no experience dealing with stealthily opponents. While I can see Tori taking this with Danmaku, generally I see Queen winning out in the end more often.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Honestly, y'all are forgetting that the Xenomorph Queen has Large Size on her profile, which is already a huuuuuge disadvantage for the Danmaku, given that leaves relatively little space for a human kid like Frisk, let alone a 4-6 m tall monstrosity, meaning that Stealth is not helping, especially when said danmaku is tens of meters range-wise.

Plus, I think that the Xenomorph Queen will die from being hit like... max two or three times because Toriel's fire being on par with Asgore's, which deals to Frisk damage unlike Pyrope's explosions, which don't do any damage to Frisk despite being hit from Pyrope's explosions at max heat made to them nothing, and Toriel is on par with Asgore who massively outscales above Undyne who is stronger than Pyrope in pure STATs, so the gap is waaaaay above x4.88.

Plus y'all seem to also forget that Toriel is all the nice goat mom only towards kids like Frisk, it was implied multiple times she can harm someone if she has to do, like her threatening Froggit or her being fine with the idea of Asgore killing 6 humans (but not with his methods to get 7 souls obviously), so the SBA would make Toriel indeed willing to kill here.

Aka voting Toriel because of Danmaku, AP advantage and heat advantage.

(Maybe is a stomp because of this, but unsure).

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Honestly, y'all are forgetting that the Xenomorph Queen has Large Size on her profile, which is already a huuuuuge disadvantage for the Danmaku, given that leaves relatively little space for a human kid like Frisk, let alone a 4-6 m tall monstrosity, meaning that Stealth is not helping, especially when said danmaku is tens of meters range-wise.

Plus, I think that the Xenomorph Queen will die from being hit like... max two or three times because Toriel's fire being on par with Asgore's, which deals to Frisk damage unlike Pyrope's explosions, which don't do any damage to Frisk despite being hit from Pyrope's explosions at max heat made to them nothing, and Toriel is on par with Asgore who massively outscales above Undyne who is stronger than Pyrope in pure STATs, so the gap is waaaaay above x4.88.

Plus y'all seem to also forget that Toriel is all the nice goat mom only towards kids like Frisk, it was implied multiple times she can harm someone if she has to do, like her threatening Froggit or her being fine with the idea of Asgore killing 6 humans (but not with his methods to get 7 souls obviously), so the SBA would make Toriel indeed willing to kill here.

Aka voting Toriel because of Danmaku, AP advantage and heat advantage.

(Maybe is a stomp because of this, but unsure).

Changing my vote to Toriel FRA

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Voting for Toriel because of Strym's reasoning.

 

[LeoEpicGamer8910]

TuToriel FRA

 

[King_Dom470]

G.O.A.T Fra

 

[koopa3144]

Dang y'all really gonna hit me with the FRA train although this is my fault for being lazy for not responding immediately.

Honestly, y'all are forgetting that the Xenomorph Queen has Large Size on her profile, which is already a huuuuuge disadvantage for the Danmaku, given that leaves relatively little space for a human kid like Frisk, let alone a 4-6 m tall monstrosity, meaning that Stealth is not helping, especially when said danmaku is tens of meters range-wise.

Stealth is not the main argument for the Queen here. The main argument for the Queen is that she rushes Tori with her subsonic movement speed before she can even get off her Danmaku. Once the Queen is close she can over power Tori with her much higher LS. Although the less likely strategy, The queen can also just use her molecular bond braking acid spit as soon as the fight starts which will stun Tori long enough for the Queen to get close and overpower her.

Plus, I think that the Xenomorph Queen will die from being hit like... max two or three times because Toriel's fire being on par with Asgore's, which deals to Frisk damage unlike Pyrope's explosions, which don't do any damage to Frisk despite being hit from Pyrope's explosions at max heat made to them nothing, and Toriel is on par with Asgore who massively outscales above Undyne who is stronger than Pyrope in pure STATs, so the gap is waaaaay above x4.88.

The Queen is superior to Adult Xenomorph's which can tank the heat of explosions and survive getting hit with several tons molten lead, and as mentioned earlier in the thread Queens can no-sell fire. Also, even when gravely injured Xenos have never been shown to tire so even if Tori is able to get off a few fireballs that hit the Queen before she instantly rushes Tori, the Queens Stamina should be enough to take those hits and reach Tori.

Plus y'all seem to also forget that Toriel is all the nice goat mom only towards kids like Frisk, it was implied multiple times she can harm someone if she has to do, like her threatening Froggit or her being fine with the idea of Asgore killing 6 humans (but not with his methods to get 7 souls obviously), so the SBA would make Toriel indeed willing to kill here.

I'm pretty sure no one was arguing that Tori wouldn't be going for the kill.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Stealth is not the main argument for the Queen here. The main argument for the Queen is that she rushes Tori with her subsonic movement speed before she can even get off her Danmaku.

I don't really think this works as the fireballs quickly cover the area (1, 2, 3), plus Toriel should indeed be able to react in time to Queen rushing towards here, as the combat speed of both gets reduced to baseline Supersonic (there are no calcs on Queen's profile so I'll go with the baseline here), which is x11 times higher than Subsonic, meaning that Toriel can indeed create walls of fireballs to protect herself in that much time (as is something she can indeed do if you check the links).

The Queen is superior to Adult Xenomorph's which can tank the heat of explosions and survive getting hit with several tons molten lead, and as mentioned earlier in the thread Queens can no-sell fire.

I said that after that I've read this on the Xenomorph's profile. The thing is, the highest thing to scale here is the heat of explosions, which is of 1800 K (or 1526.85 C), while lead melts at just 327.5 C and clear orange fire is just 1200 C.

Aka the highest thing that the Queen tanked is the explosion heat, but is something that Frisk can do as well (as is even accepted in their durability, mind you), and UT fire upscales from that given it can still harm Frisk.

Edit: Apparently Frisk's profile says that they tanked the explosion of a MTT brand oven, which reaches up to 9000 C (or 4982 C if those were Farenheit instead, which doesn't really change my point though as that is within the range of the Earth's core in temperature). So yeah, no way in hell is Queen tanking those.

Also, even when gravely injured Xenos have never been shown to tire so even if Tori is able to get off a few fireballs that hit the Queen before she instantly rushes Tori, the Queens Stamina should be enough to take those hits and reach Tori.

My guy, those things don't target just the body, but the SOUL too. Toriel massively upscales from the Mettaton's feat, and non-UT SOULs are treated to have 20 HPs as baseline as that's the default value which isn't affected from UT-only factors such as LV.

The gap between stats here is at very least a x5, if you combine it with the fact that Toriel's fire can damage Frisk who no sells explosions even at higher temperatures than normal and the fact that Queen never dealt with SOUL stuff, then Toriel would need to hit Queen max twice to get this.

 

[koopa3144]

Ngl after reading your arguments this is looking kind of stompy now. All Tori needs to do is just put up a flamewall which is 4.88x stronger than the Queen, hits the soul, and is 9000 C and it's gg. I don't see a way the Queen takes this anymore.

 

[StrymULTRA]

A small correction on the temperature thing: that was just 4982 C as Undertale seems to use Imperial system instead, but it does not change much.

But I already said it feels like a stomp given that Toriel can one shot the Queen with a single fire ball and she spams these a lot, so... idk man.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

As far as I remenber the maximun heat of the oven was decided to bot scale to anything, otherwise toriel and asgore flames + that explosion would bring a AP upgrade to undertale

 

[StrymULTRA]

As far as I remenber the maximun heat of the oven was decided to bot scale to anything, otherwise toriel and asgore flames + that explosion would bring a AP upgrade to undertale

The argument of the AP was based on the mass of the oven itself heating to such, not the temperature of the attacks.

But it wouldn't affect the durability of Frisk as the formula was based on PSI and not degrees, plus the explosion was still hot enough to set Undyne's house on fire.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

bump

 

[Javenplayz253]

Goat Mama Fra

 

[noninho]

Toriel FRA

 

[koopa3144]

Pretty sure this was said to be a stomp.

 

[Javenplayz253]

Pretty sure this was said to be a stomp.

Oof Looks Like Toriel Takes It Which Is Cool Imo

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ah yes, massive monstrosity of a race that historically has gotten ****** up by flame throwers

Against a character who spams fire danmaku.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Ah yes, massive monstrosity of a race that historically has gotten ****** up by flame throwers

Against a character who spams fire danmaku.

she resists fire and heat tho...

 

[StrymULTRA]

she resists fire and heat tho...

Not on the degree of Toriel's, man did you read the Boss Monster Physiology page?

 

[DaReaperMan]

she resists fire and heat tho...

Toriel's fire is not random ass fire and heat, but even with that stipulation it was still a bad idea to put big thing vs danmaku. Especially the kind that ***** with the soul