Monster Queen Vs. Alien Queen // Toriel vs. Xenomorph Queen (Undertale Vs. Alien)

[ShockingPsychic]

A dark force has entered the RUINs. It's protector goes to investigate a strange noise, and sees something truly monstrous.​

The Queen of the Monsters

VS.

The Queen of the Aliens

• Both are in-character
• Xenomorph Queen (Heavy Caste) is used
• Battle takes place in the RUINs, outside of Toriel's home
• They start 10 meters away from each other
• No prior knowledge
• Speed is equal

Toriel is 0.044 Tons of TNT (Small Building level)

Xenomorph Queen is 0.009 Tons of TNT (Small Building level) (i think? the calc doesn't say this but the verse page and profile do)

(Toriel has a 4.88x AP advantage, though the Queen can negate durability via acid)

TORIEL: 5

XENOMORPH QUEEN: 1

 

[koopa3144]

Following. Btw do they start in each other's line of sight?

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Btw do they start in each other's line of sight?

Yep

 

[koopa3144]

hm, well I guess I'll first note that lesser Xeno's resist heat and Fire manip and a queen was able to walk through fire with no physical harm so the fire aspect of Tori's attacks isnt gonna do much.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'm gonna go by Toriel because;

• Soulhax which alien queen has no resistence
• Toriel is more skilled
• More versatile
• Higher AP
• Healing
• Danmaku

 

[koopa3144]

Soulhax which alien queen has no resistence

Monster soul hax is still affected by conventional durability.

Toriel is more skilled

Xeno's are born predators who are capable of over running swarms of trained soldiers iirc and Tori has no experience in cqc.

More versatile

I personally wouldn't consider either of these to be that versatile. The queen can go for cqc, spew acid, and sneak away for a sneak attack while tori only really got fire Danmaku.

Healing

Tori has never used healing in herself iirc while the queen has passive regen.

Danmaku

The distance is only 10 meters which the queen can cross with a leap or a sprint.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Monster soul hax is still affected by conventional durability.

I still don't know how this works, I thought it would kill fast considering it's attacking the soul

Can you please explain this to me please?

Xeno's are born predators who are capable of over running swarms of trained soldiers iirc and Tori has no experience in cqc.

Didn't Toriel participate too in the war against humans at some point, Or was it just asgore?

I personally wouldn't consider either of these to be that versatile. The queen can go for cqc, spew acid, and sneak away for a sneak attack while tori only really got fire Danmaku.

She could attack for several directions with Different patterns too confuse the queen

Tori has never used healing in herself iirc while the queen has passive regen.

Fair

The distance is only 10 meters which the queen can cross with a leap or a sprint.

Also fair, But still she is fast enough to attack in the mean time

 

[koopa3144]

I still don't know how this works, I thought it would kill fast considering it's attacking the soul

Can you please explain this to me please?

To my understanding, we currently accept that while the attacks do hit the soul their magic is mostly physical. This thread explains it better than I can.

Didn't Toriel participate too in the war against humans at some point, Or was it just asgore?

She was alive during the time of the war but we don't know if she fought in it iirc.

She could attack for several directions with Different patterns too confuse the queen

Fair but that's still just fire magic Danmaku which is the one thing she does vs the Queen who has a good few options of attack.

Also fair, But still she is fast enough to attack in the mean time

Yeah but it wouldn't time to finish off the queen before she overwhelms Tori in cqc.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

To my understanding, we currently accept that while the attacks do hit the soul their magic is mostly physical. This thread explains it better than I can.

Thank you for explaining and sending the link

Yeah but it wouldn't time to finish off the queen before she overwhelms Tori in cqc.

Wouldn't toriel just need 2 hits in to finish her?

Correct me if i'm wrong but you need to be 5-7x times stronger to one shot your opponent?

 

[koopa3144]

Wouldn't toriel just need 2 hits in to finish her?

Correct me if i'm wrong but you need to be 5-7x times stronger to one shot your opponent?

It might of changed but I'm pretty sure a 7.5 times difference is needed for a one-shot.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

It might of changed but I'm pretty sure a 7.5 times difference is needed for a one-shot.

I see

I'm leaning towards incon now

Because either Queen demolishes Toriel with CQC and acid attacks or Toriel 2 shots with 4x stronger attacks

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Even trough It's affected by things like dura the atacks Still affect the soul directly so things like heat resistence would still be ignored... and the regeneration of the Alien queen would be useless sinse She would still need to regenerate her soul

Undertale relation to the soul is complex

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I would still vote toriel, each one of her fire balls has the 4,8× AP advantage and with the queen lsrge size + the battle happening in the ruins means the alien can't really run or dodge thouse atacks, one danmaku should be enough to kill the xenomorph queen, voting tori

 

[koopa3144]

Even trough It's affected by things like dura the atacks Still affect the soul directly so things like heat resistence would still be ignored... and the regeneration of the Alien queen would be useless sinse She would still need to regenerate her soul

Undertale relation to the soul is complex

Tori's magic still has a fire aspect to it and we currently accept UT magic as being mostly physical.

I would still vote toriel, each one of her fire balls has the 4,8× AP advantage and with the queen lsrge size + the battle happening in the ruins means the alien can't really run or dodge thouse atacks, one danmaku should be enough to kill the xenomorph queen, voting tori

As I said above the queen can quickly close distance with a leap or her Subsonic travel speed and overwhelm her in cqc. It could also just spray its molecular melting acid on Tori from a distance after which Tori will be in too much pain to fight back before the Queen closes distance and kills her.

 

[koopa3144]

I'll also note monsters weakness to strong murderous intent which the Queen will not doubt have a lot of.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Tori's magic still has a fire aspect to it and we currently accept UT magic as being mostly physical.

Yes, It's accepted that It does phisical damage and can be resisted by dura. But It still also affect the soul, there have been more debate around this and as far as I know the last one kinda acepted a mix of both, Undertale soul magic is affected by conventional dura but still directly harm the soul that then reflect to the body or something like that, as said before It's complicated

As I said above the queen can quickly close distance with a leap or her Subsonic travel speed and overwhelm her in cqc. It could also just spray its molecular melting acid on Tori from a distance after which Tori will be in too much pain to fight back before the Queen closes distance and kills her.

Thanks to beingh phisical the fire can block the acid and a jump from the queen would just trow her self in the fireballs

I'll also note monsters weakness to strong murderous intent which the Queen will not doubt have a lot of.

Even trough You are correct, this would only be relevant if Toriel couldn't win by just making fire walls covering the ruin corridors in front of the queen

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Voting Incon

 

[koopa3144]

Yes, It's accepted that It does phisical damage and can be resisted by dura. But It still also affect the soul, there have been more debate around this and as far as I know the last one kinda acepted a mix of both, Undertale soul magic is affected by conventional dura but still directly harm the soul that then reflect to the body or something like that, as said before It's complicated

Yeah so the Queen won't take any physical damage for Tori's fire magic and will only be damaged from the soul component of the attack.

Thanks to beingh phisical the fire can block the acid and a jump from the queen would just trow her self in the fireballs

Tori has never used her fire magic to block attacks and the acid would just go through the fire and the Queen has the stamina to take those fireballs and get towards Tori before getting killed herself.

Even trough You are correct, this would only be relevant if Toriel couldn't win by just making fire walls covering the ruin corridors in front of the queen

As I said above Tori has never done this and she'd have to cover the walls before the Queen closes the gap with her Subsonic speed which is a very small time frame. Also this fight takes place outside of Tori's house which is pretty spacious.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Yeah so the Queen won't take any physical damage for Tori's fire magic and will only be damaged from the soul component of the attack.

Tori has never used her fire magic to block attacks and the acid would just go through the fire and the Queen has the stamina to take those fireballs and get towards Tori before getting killed herself.

As I said above Tori has never done this and she'd have to cover the walls before the Queen closes the gap with her Subsonic speed which is a very small time frame. Also this fight takes place outside of Tori's house which is pretty spacious.

1- no? The soul damage is accepted to be reflected into phisical damage for the tsrget

2- was just a simplification, she just need to trow one of her danmaku atacks foward and thanks to the alien queen large size and limited space of the ruins It's basically impossible for the alien not be hitted by most atacks

3-Still not as spacious for something as big as the alien queen and again, Danmaku can cover really large areas

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

If the Xenomorph Queen breaks sight even once then it's game over as Toriel has no feats to even remotely fight something with that level of Stealth, especially if the Xeno goes for acid which it would definitely try if physical blows don't do a whole lot of damage since Queens are consistently portrayed to be at least as smart as people are in all the extra material that isn't Aliens (the movie).

 

[XxZetsuxX]

If the Xenomorph Queen breaks sight even once then it's game over as Toriel has no feats to even remotely fight something with that level of Stealth, especially if the Xeno goes for acid which it would definitely try if physical blows don't do a whole lot of damage since Queens are consistently portrayed to be at least as smart as people are in all the extra material that isn't Aliens (the movie).

I saw the movie where the aliens are in a cold enviroment with the girl who fights alongside the alien (I don't remember the which movie it is)

But wouldn't queen go for the kill, I mean 10 meters is something she can cover pretty quickly, Why hide?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

If the Xenomorph Queen breaks sight even once then it's game over as Toriel has no feats to even remotely fight something with that level of Stealth, especially if the Xeno goes for acid which it would definitely try if physical blows don't do a whole lot of damage since Queens are consistently portrayed to be at least as smart as people are in all the extra material that isn't Aliens (the movie).

I mean, is just a big room, there isn't a bunch of places to hide for a sneak atack, and Zetsu is correct, no need to hide

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I mean, is just a big room, there isn't a bunch of places to hide for a sneak atack, and Zetsu is correct, no need to hide

The problem with this is that Toriel is using Magic, something that AFAIK has never been shown in the Alien/Predator franchise aside from crossovers with other series so the Queen would be very confused as to what's happening so she'd more likely try to play the Stealth game at first. The room being just big and mostly empty is an issue but Xenos have used worst environments to heal and Number 6, a Xenomorph who eventually became a Queen, has shown feats of pulling a Batman on even Predators, Elite Marines and Combat Androids who know exactly how to counter Xenomorphs where she just disappears from them despite being pretty much in front of them sometimes. I don't know if we're compositing the Queens but if we are then there's a disgusting Stealth feat for them to use.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

The problem with this is that Toriel is using Magic, something that AFAIK has never been shown in the Alien/Predator franchise aside from crossovers with other series so the Queen would be very confused as to what's happening so she'd more likely try to play the Stealth game at first. The room being just big and mostly empty is an issue but Xenos have used worst environments to heal and Number 6, a Xenomorph who eventually became a Queen, has shown feats of pulling a Batman on even Predators, Elite Marines and Combat Androids who know exactly how to counter Xenomorphs where she just disappears from them despite being pretty much in front of them sometimes. I don't know if we're compositing the Queens but if we are then there's a disgusting Stealth feat for them to use.

The fight happens in the ruins corridor where you fight Toriel (I'm assuming) where you need to run back all the way to the house why would Toriel follow her?

Also i have seen above me a comment saying Queen has runned past flames, So she would likely ignore it or if striken she would be shocked by the 4x ap disadvantage and fall back

Like i said, Either she runs to toriel and demolishes her with CQC and acid attacks or Toriel two shots her with her attacks

 

[koopa3144]

The fight happens in the ruins corridor where you fight Toriel (I'm assuming) where you need to run back all the way to the house why would Toriel follow her?

Battle takes place in the RUINs, outside of Toriel's home

Also this fight takes place outside of Tori's house which is pretty spacious.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Damn, Nevermind what i said then

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, going by the OP and if the Queens are being composited then there's more than enough shit for the Queen to use their broken Stealth to just Neg Toriel outright since 6 only really had a somewhat vague amount of darkness and a couple pillars to work with against a group of Elite Predators all hunting her at once who could see in the dark anyways. That single big ass tree in Toriel's front yard is enough to hide behind for a Queen to just pull a Batman on her.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Toriel is using Magic, something that AFAIK has never been shown in the Alien/Predator franchise aside from crossovers with other series so the Queen would be very

It still would just look like fire for the Alien

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Yeah, going by the OP and if the Queens are being composited then there's more than enough shit for the Queen to use their broken Stealth to just Neg Toriel outright since 6 only really had a somewhat vague amount of darkness and a couple pillars to work with against a group of Elite Predators all hunting her at once who could see in the dark anyways. That single big ass tree in Toriel's front yard is enough to hide behind for a Queen to just pull a Batman on her.

Isn't she too big for the tree though?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It still would just look like fire for the Alien

Queens have Genius intellect with an IQ of 175 or higher, so suddenly spawning fireballs from nothing is gonna set off some alarm bells for her.

Isn't she too big for the tree though?

You'd think that but again, Xenomorphs have done more with less, including a Xeno who became a Queen later.

 

[koopa3144]

Gonna quickly note that while we consider AvP cannon to Predator we don't consider AvP canon to Alien and this profile only composites canon Xenomorphs.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

You'd think that but again, Xenomorphs have done more with less, including a Xeno who became a Queen later.

My problem with this is that the OP said they would start in line of sight, Toriel wouldn't fall for it

If they weren't i wouldn't argue XD

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Gonna quickly note that while we consider AvP cannon to Predator we don't consider AvP canon to Alien and this profile only composites canon Xenomorphs.

What kind of one way horseshit is that? Alright then I guess the 6 example gets thrown out the window but that still leaves the Queens genius intelligence and lesser but still good Stealth feats.

Wait, I just realized that speed isn't equalized. In that case Toriel blitzes the Queen to hell and nukes her with Danmakku.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I dunno what is AVP if someone doesn't mind explaining me please feel free

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I dunno what is AVP if someone doesn't mind explaining me please feel free

AvP is Alien vs Predator.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

AvP is Alien vs Predator.

There is movies with just the aliens?

Wut, I didn't know that? Thanks for telling me though

What kind of one way horseshit is that? Alright then I guess the 6 example gets thrown out the window but that still leaves the Queens genius intelligence and lesser but still good Stealth feats.

Wait, I just realized that speed isn't equalized. In that case Toriel blitzes the Queen to hell and nukes her with Danmakku.

I just realized that too XD

Voting Toriel

 

[koopa3144]

A dark force has entered the RUINs. It's protector goes to investigate a strange noise, and sees something truly monstrous.​

The Queen of the Monsters

VS.

The Queen of the Aliens

• Both are in-character
• Xenomorph Queen (Heavy Caste) is used
• Battle takes place in the RUINs, outside of Toriel's home
• They start 10 meters away from each other
• No prior knowledge

Toriel is 0.044 Tons of TNT (Small Building level)

Xenomorph Queen is 0.009 Tons of TNT (Small Building level) (i think? the calc doesn't say this but the verse page and profile do)

(Toriel has a 4.88x AP advantage, though the Queen can negate durability via acid)

TORIEL: 1

XENOMORPH QUEEN: 1

Oh I missed that speed wasn't equalized. Speed needs to be equalized here or Tori stomps

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Missed that, mb

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Missed that, mb

Switching to incon again then XD

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I personally think the Queen would just outsmart Toriel upon seeing her supernatural abilities and play it more safely to win but it really does depend on who can land the first strike on the other since that's all either needs to get their combos going so I guess I'm gonna vote Incon.