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This thread serves mostly to undo the changes from this other thread, but does make a few changes orthogonal to it. This thread came about from a conversation on that previous thread on QuasiYuri's wall, if you would like more context.
Someone with the ability to ping users may want to ping Confluctor, QuasiYuri, LephyrTheRevanchist, catzlaflame, Zaratthustra, Teezar, Celestial_Pegasus, and UchihaSlayer96; the users who accepted the previous thread. As well as RatherClueless, CrimsonStarFallen, and Cloozuma; some still-active verse supporters who didn't weigh in on the last thread.
Part of this thread includes spoilers for arcs of Monogatari which have not been adapted into an anime or officially translated as novels, but which have been fan-translated.
First, my weaker argument; the difference between 9-A and 6-B/5-B seems too large (at least 10^15x difference) to attribute to a stated gap of only 5-10x. On top of that, it's not like vampires have zero durability; as Quasi's quote showed, even random weak vampires have better durability than humans, despite only showing 9-A AP. Does it really seem reasonable that Kiss-shot's massively superior striking strength, lifting strength, and speed are accompanied by zero increase in durability?
But for a stronger argument, as is said on her profile, Kiss-shot was trying to die at the time. I think that this means that she lowered her durability during that. Here's my evidence, from best to worst:
As such, I think her durability should be changed to what it was before: At least 6-B+, possibly 5-B.
Actually, I like Chariot's suggestion; making her durability "Varies, up to at least 6-B+, possibly 5-B"
The rating was changed due to a misunderstanding, in a way that made the scaling of the profiles nonsensical, so it should be reverted.
Someone with the ability to ping users may want to ping Confluctor, QuasiYuri, LephyrTheRevanchist, catzlaflame, Zaratthustra, Teezar, Celestial_Pegasus, and UchihaSlayer96; the users who accepted the previous thread. As well as RatherClueless, CrimsonStarFallen, and Cloozuma; some still-active verse supporters who didn't weigh in on the last thread.
Part of this thread includes spoilers for arcs of Monogatari which have not been adapted into an anime or officially translated as novels, but which have been fan-translated.
Kiss-Shot's Durability
This downgrade is based on the idea that Koyomi hurting Kiss-shot implies that either Koyomi's AP should be higher, or Kiss-shot's durability should be lower, and backs this up with a statement that vampires have strength 5-10x higher than their durability. I disagree with this on both fronts.First, my weaker argument; the difference between 9-A and 6-B/5-B seems too large (at least 10^15x difference) to attribute to a stated gap of only 5-10x. On top of that, it's not like vampires have zero durability; as Quasi's quote showed, even random weak vampires have better durability than humans, despite only showing 9-A AP. Does it really seem reasonable that Kiss-shot's massively superior striking strength, lifting strength, and speed are accompanied by zero increase in durability?
But for a stronger argument, as is said on her profile, Kiss-shot was trying to die at the time. I think that this means that she lowered her durability during that. Here's my evidence, from best to worst:
- When telling Guillotine-Cutter about her plan to get killed by Koyomi, Guillotine-Cutter says that Kiss-shot could be killed by anyone, as she wishes to die. (Source)
- Deathtopia, the vampire who created Kiss-shot, (when incredibly weakened) died when crashing into a mountain. However, she didn't have to; she decided to have her body absorb the impact instead of the mountain, to avoid killing the god who was living there. Had things gone as initially planned, she would've survived and smashed the mountain into smithereens. (Source)
- The 6-B rating is based on her jump from Antarctica to Japan. While her landing clearly didn't involve as much force, it was still strong enough to empty the contents of a lake, causing the water to rain down later - an event which sounds far beyond 9-A. Yet in the course of this landing, she didn't suffer a single scratch. (Source)
- Kiss-shot's already demonstrated the ability to shapeshift (Source) and the ability to freely control her weight (Source). This provides a few plausible avenues for her (and Deathtopia) to change their durability.
- While this jump also likely didn't involve as much force, when she would later jump from Japan to Antarctica, she did so with only one leg, and didn't regenerate until after she landed; making the explanation of "Her body was destroyed by the 6-B forces while jumping, but she regenerated from that destruction in the air" seem a little less likely to me. (Source)
- This does kind of counteract the last point, but it is mentioned that she experienced a great degree of friction in her jump from Antarctica to Japan, but that she regenerated from the high temperatures that would cause to an ordinary temperature. Notably, it didn't mention the friction involved tearing apart her body. (Source)
Actually, I like Chariot's suggestion; making her durability "Varies, up to at least 6-B+, possibly 5-B"
Kiss-Shot's Speed
The statement Quasi added to the profile from Kizu was ignored in the first place because she clearly didn't actually perform that feat in that instance, she was just making a joke. I don't think such obvious non-feats merit any inclusion on the profile. However, in the course of making this thread, I found this statement where she says she wasn't entirely joking about being able to circle the earth seven and a half times in one jump. I think that statement should replace the Kizu one on the profile.Kizu!Koyomi's Durability
Quasi says that Kizu!Koyomi's durability shouldn't scale to his AP, but to the durability of his lower key, in line with the downgrade of Kiss-shot's durability. This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the way the Monogatari profiles got their ratings. Kizu!Koyomi's durability comes from a 10x multiplier accepted here on his prior durability. His AP scales to being able to harm characters who can harm him; Episode and Dramaturgy. Episode's calc was only accepted at the 9-A end. Without that, there is no 9-A+ feat in Monogatari, which is what about a dozen pages in the series scale to.The rating was changed due to a misunderstanding, in a way that made the scaling of the profiles nonsensical, so it should be reverted.
Orthogonal Changes
I mentioned a few things above that aren't on the profiles. One of them was the additional statement for Kiss-shot's speed rating. Another is upgrading Kiss-shot's Lifting Strength to At least Class G based on her pulling clouds inland to cause rain. Another is giving quasi-vampire Shinobu Density Manipulation (she already has the category for it on her profile, I have no clue why it's not in her P&A). There's a whole myriad of changes the profiles still need, but they'll have to wait for another thread.
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