Monika Downgrades

[Kirbin]

By the definition of the tier she is at, 2C, she must be able to

• Universe level+: ("Low 2-C") This is for characters who can destroy and/or create the entire 4-dimensional space-time of one universe, not just the physical matter within one. For example, an entire timeline.

But none of the "universes" she creates or destroys are 4 Dimensional, by the statements in the game they exist in a canonically 2D world, at some point Monika references fictional characters being "2 Dimensional" like the phrase to describe boring characters, and the player character corrects her asking her if she doesn't mean 1 Dimensional, this clearly implies that the world they exist in is actually 2 Dimensional so the universes Monika manipulates are 2D not 4D, basically she's below real world humans

11-A: Plane level
2-dimensional characters

This seems to fit her better, although she managed to interact with the game itself so possibly one tier higher?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This just sounds like some 4th wall breaking, all fictional characters are technically 2-D, sounds like it's just referencing that by breaking the 4th wall.

 

[Kirbin]

This just sounds like some 4th wall breaking, all fictional characters are technically 2-D, sounds like it's just referencing that by breaking the 4th wall.

Games are 2D to us sure but not necesarily in universe, and it is 4th wall breaking, but the reaction of the character in the game is to correct her and imply that they themselves are 2D, the PC doesn't know that she broke the fourth wall and we have no input on his statement.

 

[Fllflourine]

You have been visited by the bump gods.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure what to do here. Sorry.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

This is the same as with White Face or all of SAO

We often rate "virtual characters" by what they are inside their "universe", unless it's something like GIFany. Arguably the same goes for Undertale or any 4th wall breaking franchises.

Here it's a case of the entire setting taking place in said virtual universe, so rating them solely as Tier 11 wouldn't really work.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

In fact I can list a bunch of verse which acknowledge their existence as mere fiction. Doesn't really make them 11-C.

 

[LuckyEmile]

Erm, the correct term for the phrase (to describe a boring characters) is a "one dimensional character", so they were likely correcting them aptly. This doesn't mean they're one less dimension to us at all. I'm assuming the scene was just a joke for fun.

EDIT: Plus, it wouldn't be a 2D universe. In space, yes, but the "4D universe" you referred to involved the temporary dimension above it. So even if the characters were 2D, it would be a 3D universe. But I don't think they are 2D if the scene you mentioned is the only indicatio.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Saikou.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

In fact I can list a bunch of verse which acknowledge their existence as mere fiction. Doesn't really make them 11-C.

but they arent (most of the times) games, and monika DEFINES DDLC as a game and her powers depend on it, if she were to be in an anime most of her powers would cease to work

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

(time space manipulation, exictence erasure and the likes)

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

does what monika made even count as a timline, she used mostly existing data and says time doesent probavly exist

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

And a LOT of Fourth Wall Breaker relies on their medium for their powers to "work". DDLC is far from the first one to do this.

Also don't triple post.

 

[RageComment]

If it ever became a big issue, one could always add a Key for Real | Virtual

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

shouldent we make her 2d sealed like gifany?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The thing is that GIFany seems to have almost no feats within her games. All of her character is centered around her interactions with the real world.

Meanwhile most of Monika's actions take place within the game, and she can only interact with things within the game.

Both are quite different in this regard.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The thing is that GIFany seems to have almost no feats within her games. All of her character is centered around her interactions with the real world.
Meanwhile most of Monika's actions take place within the game, and she can only interact with things within the game.

Both are quite different in this regard.

she oneshotted the street fighter parody, but i got what you mean, not completly agree but i will lease it. would it be possible to specify 2d sealed within battles?

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

I agree. Her being a 2C is just absurd. She even stated herself that she doesn't know too much about the outside world and wants a connection. That's the point.

 

[RageComment]

Going to say again that virtual | real keys could be a possible compromise.

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

Still doesn't explain how she could go toe to toe with a Marvel Cosmic Entity or a Lovecraftian Horror. Not dissing the idea, it's just that nothing in the game suggests she's in that level. The powers are inherited from the Literature Club itself once someone becomes president. I guess that counts but even then she herself isn't in full control of what she does, although compared to Sayori, she is the stronger of the two.

 

[Therefir]

There are other verses like SAO who are just a game, that doesn't mean we can't use his stats from the game.

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

Well then that sounds like a problem : ^)

Even so, SAO's cast all seem kind of balanced and around the 8C level. Which is 'meh' but at least none of them are being hyped up into such a ridiculous scale.

Scale 5 and 4 are pretty much where you're getting into some arguably Divine levels. 3s and 2s should be saved for characters whose feats are either so vast that their power is concrete and can either display enough manipulation or destruction abilities that would put an Earthly God to shame. Cosmic. Or at the very least, if she's only interested in manipulating the plotline of a single game with a few characters then she'd be better at doing it.

Monika is a self aware NPC character that just happens to be in a role in which she is not allowed to love the main character and by sheer will can manipulate the game into a certain extent. She's not some Reality Warper that can alter history and nothing about the game suggests that. Not even close. She's not even the AI itself.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Don't try and pull out "Divine levels" to explain your point. Even if SAO was Tier 1 they would still have that key. Same for Monika. Most of your argument relies on incredulity.

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

With all do respect what's making Monika a 2C supposed to establish here? The idea that she can go toe to toe with a Cosmic character is madness. But suppose I were to just put my mindset into a bottle and assume that everything that was pointed out is correct and that her abiliites are varied and vast enough to conisdered a high functioning reality warper, we know her ability isn't unique considering the player can do it but I'll subscribe to the idea that yes she is a reality warper like other characters in her series.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

she took away sayoris power when she was president and ssurvived exictence erasure, the player is higher dimensional (3d) and can hack

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

ALSO-ALSO-Beyond that we know very little about the complexities about the world she came from. Is the world she hails from as complex as our world or a world like in Dragon Ball or is it highly limited being that it's acknowledged that she lives in a game.

If you want to high ball it then fine i guess I could see your reasoning I just think that's a little bit wanky. In the final part of the game, she shows a very bored and hateful view towards the world she comes from, referring it as fake. The reason for that is that she comes from a dating simulator. What are the chances of this world being as vast as ours? It was programmed by a dude. It's been established. They live in a dating sim, so what happen if you took Monika out. Would she stil have her abilities? If not then why does that warrant a 2C?

If it still warrants a 2C then it's my mistake.

I suppose the arguement here is not that Monika is not powerful in her game or not, rather that just being powerful in the game warrants you to be a God tier character.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Serpent, 90% of your arguments right now are outright nonsense.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

it has time and space and she destroyed both.

destroying spacetime is infinitly above destroying matter

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

Serpent, 90% of your arguments right now are outright nonsense.

Okay what part? The arguement that she's not a good manipulator or the world thing?

I tend to favor the arguement that the world she comes from isn't as complex as the world we come from and because of this, her manipulation over it shouldn't be as heightened.

 

[DodoNova2]

......

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

Hello!

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

Look if it's not making any sense it's not making any sense. I'll cut down my claim, it just seems a little wanky is all.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Okay what part? The arguement that she's not a good manipulator or the world thing?

I tend to favor the arguement that the world she comes from isn't as complex as the world we come from and because of this, her manipulation over it shouldn't be as heightened.

but her destruction of it should

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

Okay what part? The arguement that she's not a good manipulator or the world thing?

I tend to favor the arguement that the world she comes from isn't as complex as the world we come from and because of this, her manipulation over it shouldn't be as heightened.

but her destruction of it should
It's a game. She lives in a Dating Sim. She has no idea how the outside world functions. Our world. Shouldn't a 2C be more aware of that or should that be saved for a Tier 1 character?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It's a game. She lives in a Dating Sim. She has no idea how the outside world functions. Our world. Shouldn't a 2C be more aware of that or should that be saved for a Tier 1 character?

she says that the room made by her has no time and space anymore. she said she doesent know much. not nothing at all

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

Okay lol. Figure of speech, she knows very 'little' about the world outside. Not nothing. My mistake.

But I mean I do have that question though. Like no joke, I'm not trying to be a wise ass or anything but her level of knowledge and her destructive capabilities put into question, are there other 2Cs like her whose power only extends into a medium like a game or book and not beyond that or is she the most popular one here.

I know Marvel and DC have stories in which they depict a writer working on their story but their are so many contradictions and creation myths behind those Universes I tend to not take them too seriously.

But yeah it's a genuine question, are there any other characters like her on the site that I could draw a comparison towards? I'm curious.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Okay lol. Figure of speech, she knows very 'little' about the world outside. Not nothing. My mistake.
But I mean I do have that question though. Like no joke, I'm not trying to be a wise ass or anything but her level of knowledge and her destructive capabilities put into question, are there other 2Cs like her whose power only extends into a medium like a game or book and not beyond that or is she the most popular one here.

I know Marvel and DC have stories in which they depict a writer working on their story but their are so many contradictions and creation myths behind those Universes I tend to not take them too seriously.

But yeah it's a genuine question, are there any other characters like her on the site that I could draw a comparison towards? I'm curious.

there is one VERY similiar , GIFany from gravity fals, she is, however 2-d bound, as she is whitin a game, which is why i belive monika should be 2d bound too

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

Yeah and she's limited to a game and she's only 11 to 9. I understand that.

I'm just wondering why Monika is being God-Moded is all. Are we working under perpspective tiering here?

Because if we were to exist outside the game, how much effect would she have on us? Within the game, sure she's a Godlike Entity (Ahem), I just thought all angles would be tackled. If I seem arrogant it's only because I fail to understand why there's lack of clarity and reminder that she's a game character.

What I mean is that the profile here says she's low 2C. It's not tier 11A | 2C, it's straight up 2C.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

thats why i agree whit downgrade

as for outside of game, its tricky, like undertale: asgore destroys mercy button making fleeing impossible, but there is no mercy button in real life, what do we do?

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

Thank you. I know I'm horrible at explaining this (LOL) but that's what I trying to suggest. Even putting aside my own biases on how I just can't imagine Monika going toe to toe with Chaos King, I can shrug that aside if it what weren't meant to believe is that she can only have this power while in the game or hell even the digital world if you wanted to make that claim. But the profile makes no indication to it, which I feel is a little deceptive.