Modern Sonic P&A Revisions, key removal, and Standard Equipment changes

[CBslayeR]

I noticed a lot of issues on a lot of Sonic character's profiles so I'm gonna post my problems with them to change or remove them, starting with Modern Sonic.

To start simple, Hyper Sonic should NOT be a key for Modern Sonic.

Note 2: Hyper Sonic can be considered dubiously canon, as the form's only appearance was within Sonic 3 & Knuckles. However, the Super Emeralds appeared in Sonic Adventure and are alluded to in Sonic Mania. They are still part of the lore for this transformation to potentially be possible for Sonic to achieve, as the Super Emeralds are merely Chaos Emeralds amplified by the Master Emerald's power.

Issue 1: We've literally never seen a Modern Hyper Sonic, everything he has on his key is just upscaling, there's also 0 continuity for the form because if you use him in a thread you have to just guess that he's the current Sonic because he's never used the Super Emeralds prior. It's basically just an OC at this point.

Issue 2: The supporting evidence is extremely weak to support Hyper Forms being on the profile, Mania is a different continuity from Modern, and the Super Emeralds being in Sonic Adventure support that the emeralds themselves are canon but the form still shouldn't be on this version of Sonic since we've never seen it.

Issue 3: A form being potentially possible is not a valid reason to give a key to someone, by that logic we should give stuff like Injustice Hal Jordan a red lantern key because Atrocitus almost gave him a red lantern ring, or giving canon Vegito stuff like Gogeta Blue scaling because its technically possible if current Goku and Vegeta fuse.

Solution: Remove Hyper Sonic from Modern Sonic's profile, Classic can keep it since he's actually used the form before.


Now for Adventure era P&As:

• Analytical Prediction (Shown to notice patterns in his opponent's style[2] and adapt to fight accordingly)

I'm pretty sure Sonic has gone on record to say Knuckles is pretty predictable as a fighter and he's fought him before so he's just giving tips to Gemerl. This is literally just an experience and skill feat lol. Remove it

• Enhanced Senses (Hearing and Reflexes. Can maneuver around perfectly in pitch black conditions and blinded

This needs a link to Sandopolis Zone or something since I'm pretty sure this is where it comes from.

Scans provided, thanks Maverick

Extrasensory Perception (His quills can identify and detect danger[3])

This is not extrasensory perception for one this qualifies more as enhanced senses, and two wasn't there literally a Dinosaur running around shaking the earth in this level? Remove it or add it to his enhanced senses

• Dimensional Travel (Noted to have returned to his world from the Arabian Night and World of Camelot alternate realities. Can travel towards Special Stages,, which are stated to be other dimensions)

We have no idea how he left the story book worlds, there's 0 evidence to support that he did it on his own or not. Special stages are also not done by himself they're done through the environment, by this logic Sonic should have time travel in base. Remove it

Scans provided by Maverick, put it in the quote text thingy as well

• Healing (Can revitalize himself with Rings. Chaos Emeralds can also heal their users and restore consciousness when they get rendered unconscious)

Are rings even canon? Chaos emeralds healing is fine but I'm not sure about rings.

Rivals 2 confirms it, added scans to the quote post (Thanks Maverick)

• Time Manipulation/Time Stop (with Time Stop, and the Chaos Emeralds)

Multiplayer modes should not be treated as for sure canon, there should be a possibly section for abilities or items like this

• BFR and Sealing (Can send targets outside space-time with the Chaos Emeralds, or use Chaos Control to send others to different dimensions)

Does Sonic even know how to do this? We shouldn't give powers because its technically possible. I'd say remove

• Resistance Negation (Through Chaos Control. Chaos Emeralds can stop time and freeze the likes of Tails in place despite him being shown to be unaffected by other means of Time Stop, such as through the Time Switch)

Adventure Era Resistances:

• Time Manipulation/Time Stop and Age Manipulation (Can traverse the Special Stages of the Time Stones, which alter and remove time from their stages. The mysterious Time Stones are also said to be able to turn a desert into a jungle, and a polluted lake into a beautiful lake by crossing through time. Able to move normally even after he activates a Time Switch, which freezes enemies in place and stops the in-game counter. Can move within White Space, an area where Time doesn't exist)

The second scan is from an American manual and Sonic CD was developed in Japan, their word shouldn't be used if other verses aren't allowed to use American scans for stuff. The other two scans are broken also

Found a new scan of Sonic using the Time Switch

• Matter Manipulation, Antimatter Manipulation (Is unaffected by attacks from the Antimatter Cannon and Particle Beam Cannon)

Needs scans of them in action, I worry it might just be a cool name.

• Death Manipulation (Can traverse through areas near Void and can interact with him, in which his presence alone killed off the life within the Nature Zone before it was restored)

Scans broken, no idea what this is referring to.



Current Sonic P&A:

• Durability Negation (The Ichikoro Gauge allows Sonic to knock out the opponent in one hit once enough energy is transferred to it)

Assuming this is dura negation is a blatant NLF, as far as I can tell (with the lack of scans) the gauge has only one shot people with comparable durability to his own. Statistics Amplification better fits this. It'd be potent enough to oneshot people comparable to him.

• Darkness Manipulation

Needs scans.


Current Sonic resistances:

• Durability Negation (Via Sonic Guard, Sonic can defend from special attacks charged up by the Ichikoro Gauge and release stored energy within it, which instantly knocks out the opponent bypassing their durability in the process)

Would need to be removed if the Dura Negation on the gauge is removed.



Transformation P&A:


Excalibur Sonic:

• Power Nullification (Can shatter magic barriers with sword attacks)

Can't this just be attributed to raw AP or the dura negation Excalibur already has? It's kind of a stretch and should be removed.


Werehog Sonic:

• Invulnerability (During Unleashed Mode, Sonic becomes invulnerable)

literally what

Don't have a great scan of this but it should suffice, I also put that it's during unleashed mode rather than just saying he's invulnerable.

Super Sonic:

• Causality Manipulation (At his strongest, Sonic could harm Solaris through all points in its time and damage it)

First scan is broken, and wasn't the whole point of Shadow and Silver being there so they could harm it in the past present and future anyways? It wasn't a solo job in harming the thing they all had to contribute.





Standard Equipment (Adventure Era) revisions:

Power Sneakers, Chaos Emeralds (Has collected and carried the Chaos Emeralds throughout various installments), Rings, Item Boxes, Light Speed Shoes/Light Chip, Crystal Ring, Bounce Bracelet, Flame Ring, and Magic Hands

A lot of these he only carries during the game their in like all the Adventure upgrades, those should probably be divided by game, Item Boxes Sonic doesn't carry on his person until Generations and Lost World, its not like Mario where he stores power ups on his person. Sonic doesn't do anything like that until Lost World.

Current Equipment Revisions:

Now I'm gonna go into why Wisps are NOT standard equipment. In Lost World Sonic does carry them in his pockets akin to Mario, but Sonic having a of bunch wisps on him 24/7 would go against his entire character of protecting nature and all that cause he'd literally be trapping animals against his will basically. Sonic Lost World is the only time he carries Wisps on his person, every game following that has Wisps has him find them.


Optional Equipment Revisions:

Sonic Chronicles stuff should probably be moved to its own tab in the section now that its confirmed non canon now, just so we can separate it better from the canon optional equipment.

• Immortality (Type 4) and Regeneration (Low-Godly. With Shahra's Ring, he can resurrect from Soul Energy that's heavily implied to be from his actual soul that Erazor put a curse on to slowly diminish)

There is absolutely nothing supporting that this is low godly, it being called Soul Resurrection doesn't mean he's literally regenerating from his soul, he's reviving from the soul energy that fills up the gauge. The actual regen is scanless too, so it has 0 showings of actually regenerating Sonic according to the profile. I'd say make it the same type of immortality as Caliburn's unless there's evidence provided for it.


Stuff that's been covered thus far (thanks Maverick and Shake)

Covered (Credit to Maverick for providing this)​

• Hyper Sonic (Get rid of the Modern Hyper Sonic render tho)
• Analytical Prediction
• Enhanced Senses (Can maneuver around perfectly in pitch black areas)
• Dimensional Travel (Noted to have returned to his world from the Arabian Nights alternate reality. Can enter Special Stages, which are stated to be other dimensions)
• Healing (Can revitalize himself with Rings. Chaos Emeralds can also heal their users and restore consciousness when they get rendered unconscious)
• Time Manipulation/Time Stop
• BFR
• Wisps being Standard Equipment
• Immortality (Type 4) and Regeneration (Low-Godly)
• Werehog invulnerability (Invulnerability (During Unleashed Mode, Sonic becomes invulnerable))
• Time Switch Scan (Able to move normally even after he activates a Time Switch, which freezes enemies in place and stops the in-game counter.)

Being Discussed/Scans Needed​

• Death Resistance (Broken link)
• Time Manipulation/Time Stop/Age Manipulation Resistance (Broken links for Time Stone statements)
• Darkness Manipulation (Evidence needed)
• Matter/Antimatter Resistance (Evidence needed)

Should be removed/Revised​

• Durability Negation and Resistance to it (The Ichikoro Gauge should be listed as Damage Boost or Statistics Amplification) (this effects Modern Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Rouge, Cream, Emerl, Gamma with fingers, Chaos)
• Everything from Sonic Chronicles should be removed (Voxai Overmind feat, Optional Equipment, Notable Attacks & Techniques) Saving for a future CRT
• Extrasensory Perception should be Enhanced Senses or Precognition. Needs a clip too
• The “Resistance Negation” should probably be just be listed in the Time Stop justification to note that Chaos Control bypasses one layer of Resistance
• Excalibur’s Power Nullification
• Probably Causality Manipulation (this effects Super Shadow, Super Silver, Modern Super Sonic)

 

[CBslayeR]

I misclicked enter aaaaaaaa

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I misclicked enter aaaaaaaa

(Note that of course this stance is subject to change due to the thread not being finished as of me writing this.) For what you wrote so far, everything is correct to me except for a few details.

Sonic Mania may be in an alternate timeline, but nothing that happened in Sonic Mania made a difference between the Super Emeralds existing in that timeline opposed to the primary timeline, so that is the point in mentioning it in the profile. Of course, this doesn't matter, since Modern Sonic literally never used a Hyper State. If the form is viable to use, then there is a Classic Sonic profile for that.

The other small detail is that alternate multiplayer modes like Sonic Adventure 2 Battle may be non-canon but they are entirely based on the canon iterations of the characters, so they are okay to use. It signifies that, although it's entirely out of character for Sonic to use the time stopping abilities of Chaos Control, he still at least knows how to use it, which is useful to note on his profile since it can make a difference when Sonic is bloodlusted in a versus thread.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I noticed a lot of issues on a lot of Sonic character's profiles so I'm gonna post my problems with them to change or remove them, starting with Modern Sonic.

To start simple, Hyper Sonic should NOT be a key for Modern Sonic.



Issue 1: We've literally never seen a Modern Hyper Sonic, everything he has on his key is just upscaling, there's also 0 continuity for the form because if you use him in a thread you have to just guess that he's the current Sonic because he's never used the Super Emeralds prior. It's basically just an OC at this point.

Incorrect. He doesn't upscale at all on the wiki, he scales directly to where Classic's Hyper Sonic scales. Also, I can't find any examples but there are a few profiles that do this. I'll see if I can fetch examples later.

Issue 2: The supporting evidence is extremely weak to support Hyper Forms being on the profile, Mania is a different continuity from Modern, and the Super Emeralds being in Sonic Adventure support that the emeralds themselves are canon but the form still shouldn't be on this version of Sonic since we've never seen it.

James hit it on the head, Mania has no plot involvement with the Super Emeralds to distinguish them whatsoever from Modern's timeline. Occam's Razor benefits in favor of them being the same in Modern's timeline.

Issue 3: A form being potentially possible is not a valid reason to give a key to someone, by that logic we should give stuff like Injustice Hal Jordan a red lantern key because Atrocitus almost gave him a red lantern ring, or giving canon Vegito stuff like Gogeta Blue scaling because its technically possible if current Goku and Vegeta fuse.

A false equivalence. Hyper Sonic was literally used by Modern Sonic in the past, it would remain a key regardless because Classic Sonic's profile is being renovated into Sonic the Hedgehog (Mania Timeline) and Classic is being made a key in Modern's profile. You probably had no idea, in fairness to you, but that's been the plan for a while.

I'm pretty sure Sonic has gone on record to say Knuckles is pretty predictable as a fighter and he's fought him before so he's just giving tips to Gemerl. This is literally just an experience and skill feat lol.

Knuckles is stated to be a master at martial arts repeatedly. Additionally, you literally just pointed out it's a skill feat for Sonic. AKA exactly why it's on the profile.

This needs a link to Sandopolis Zone or something since I'm pretty sure this is where it comes from.

Agreed.

This is not extrasensory perception for one, and two wasn't there literally a Dinosaur running around shaking the earth in this level?

Iirc it's before Sonic even encounters the dino or has any idea it's there. Also, I have NO idea why it's labelled as Extrasensory Perception. It should be labelled under his Precog.

We have no idea how he left the story book worlds, there's 0 evidence to support that he did it on his own or not. Special stages are also not done by himself they're done through the environment, by this logic Sonic should have time travel in base.

Secret Rings literally states he ran and ran until he got back to his world. Oh, and I believe it's one of the Advance games where he literally runs to a Special Stage. That isn't the environment whatsoever.

Are rings even canon? Chaos emeralds healing is fine but I'm not sure about rings.

Yes. The Encyclopedia CRT that's in the works is gonna cover this.

Multiplayer modes should not be treated as for sure canon, there should be a possibly section for abilities or items like this

I agree.

 

[CBslayeR]

Bump because I finally finished it lol

 

[CBslayeR]

Incorrect. He doesn't upscale at all on the wiki, he scales directly to where Classic's Hyper Sonic scales. Also, I can't find any examples but there are a few profiles that do this. I'll see if I can fetch examples later.

James hit it on the head, Mania has no plot involvement with the Super Emeralds to distinguish them whatsoever from Modern's timeline. Occam's Razor benefits in favor of them being the same in Modern's timeline.

A false equivalence. Hyper Sonic was literally used by Modern Sonic in the past, it would remain a key regardless because Classic Sonic's profile is being renovated into Sonic the Hedgehog (Mania Timeline) and Classic is being made a key in Modern's profile. You probably had no idea, in fairness to you, but that's been the plan for a while.

Knuckles is stated to be a master at martial arts repeatedly. Additionally, you literally just pointed out it's a skill feat for Sonic. AKA exactly why it's on the profile.

Iirc it's before Sonic even encounters the dino or has any idea it's there. Also, I have NO idea why it's labelled as Extrasensory Perception. It should be labelled under his Precog.

Secret Rings literally states he ran and ran until he got back to his world. Oh, and I believe it's one of the Advance games where he literally runs to a Special Stage. That isn't the environment whatsoever.

For Hyper Sonic if Classic Sonic is being put onto regular Sonic's profile then its fine I guess, when he's used for a VS thread he should be treated as Classic Sonic however instead of Modern. Also at the moment Hyper Sonic upscales from Modern Super Sonic on his profile so that's why I brought the first point up, unless we're assuming Classic Super = Modern Super which is extremely weird.

I'm glad that Sonic's profile is being split between Mania and Classic now.


Now there's no problem with it being a skill feat, but the way Sonic does it isn't really notable enough to be listed, its pretty basic habit reading. Knuckles also has a weakness on his profile for being predictable. If anything it could be limited

Remove the extrasensory perception like I said then, I'd also like scans of when that moment specifically happens so we can know if its his precog or just something unrelated.

Provide scans for both of these so it can be added to the profiles.

 

[JED]

Agree with everything Shake said. But a few more things I have to add.

I'm pretty sure Sonic has gone on record to say Knuckles is pretty predictable as a fighter and he's fought him before so he's just giving tips to Gemerl. This is literally just an experience and skill feat lol. Remove it

In addition to what Shake said, there are multiple scans of Sonic admitting that he’s constantly studying and analyzing his opponents and predicting their next course of action. One time that comes to mind is in Rivals when he tells Eggman he’s studied his machine and scouted out its next attack.

Does Sonic even know how to do this? We shouldn't give powers because its technically possible. I'd say remove

Yes. Very easily. Sonic has used Chaos Control to travel to dimensions and timelines before.

This seriously needs scans

I wouldn’t mind if this was treated as a more Enhanced Time Stop instead of Resistance Negation. Neutral on this.

Scans broken, no idea what this is referring to.

Unfortunately Windii’s channel has been taken down, so the scan can not be accessed at this time.

Darkness Manipulation

Search Sonic’s powers in Secret Rings and he can control darkness.

• Causality Manipulation (At his strongest, Sonic could harm Solaris through all points in its time and damage it)

Tbh, I agree with this removing this. This only came afaik because of the attempt to remove immeasurable and SOMEHOW they got causality manip from that even though it really made no sense. (And before anyone says anything I fully support immeasurable)

The Chronicles stuff will be tackled in the Encyclopedia CRT that’s coming soon. But it is an easy agree. Also the Encyclopedia confirms Hyper and both canon and that Sonic has used it before.

 

[JED]

Agree with everything Shake said. But a few more things I have to add.

In addition to what Shake said, there are multiple scans of Sonic admitting that he’s constantly studying and analyzing his opponents and predicting their next course of action. One time that comes to mind is in Rivals when he tells Eggman he’s studied his machine and scouted out its next attack.

Yes. Very easily. Sonic has life used Chaos Contril to travel to dimensions and timelines before.

I wouldn’t mind if this was treated as a more Enhanced Time Stop instead of Resistance Negation. Neutral on this.

Unfortunately Windii’s channel has been taken down, so the scan can not be accessed at this time.

Search Sonic’s powers in Secret Rings and he can control darkness.

Tbh, I agree with this removing this. This only came afaik because of the attempt to remove immeasurable and SOMEHOW they got causality manip from that even though it really made no sense. (And before anyone says anything I fully support immeasurable)

The Chronicles stuff will be tackled in the Encyclopedia CRT that’s coming soon. But it is an easy agree. Also the Encyclopedia confirms Hyper and both canon and that Sonic has used it before.

Ik there is more you’ve added but that’s all I’ve had the time to look over for now. Will comment on the rest later

 

[CBslayeR]

In addition to what Shake said, there are multiple scans of Sonic admitting that he’s constantly studying and analyzing his opponents and predicting their next course of action. One time that comes to mind is in Rivals when he tells Eggman he’s studied his machine and scouted out its next attack.

Yes. Very easily. Sonic has life used Chaos Contril to travel to dimensions and timelines before.

I wouldn’t mind if this was treated as a more Enhanced Time Stop instead of Resistance Negation. Neutral on this.

I'm pretty sure that just falls under habit reading still, I'd say just list it as limited analytical prediction so it isn't misunderstood. He's not able to literally analyze exactly what they're gonna do he's able to make extremely educated guesses.

When has he travelled to different dimensions and timelines before, he's also never sealed anyone before.

I'm pretty sure the time switch comes from Sonic 2 multiplayer, but I could be wrong.

 

[sanicspood]

Tbh, I agree with this removing this. This only came afaik because of the attempt to remove immeasurable and SOMEHOW they got causality manip from that even though it really made no sense. (And before anyone says anything I fully support immeasurable)

The Chronicles stuff will be tackled in the Encyclopedia CRT that’s coming soon. But it is an easy agree. Also the Encyclopedia confirms Hyper and both canon and that Sonic has used it before.

I’m pretty sure shake explained why it isn’t causality manip, I don’t remember it being accepted but eh

 

[ShakeResounding]

unless we're assuming Classic Super = Modern Super which is extremely weird.

I never understood this. Super Sonic isn't like a Super Saiyan transformation where he gets stronger over time, it's a stagnant buff. They even ARE treated as comparable in the Time Eater fight.

Remove the extrasensory perception like I said then, I'd also like scans of when that moment specifically happens so we can know if its his precog or just something unrelated.

Is it really not linked when it states the ability? That's a trend I've been noticing, I think somebody's removing some of the links. I'll dig it up later.

Provide scans for both of these so it can be added to the profiles.

I also felt like I added both of these already, so I'm getting a little aggravated to find out that isn't the case. Sure.

he's also never sealed anyone before.

Magic Hands, have you ever even played SA2? It's literally a gif in his profile in the NA/T section.

I'm pretty sure the time switch comes from Sonic 2 multiplayer, but I could be wrong.

No, it's from SA2. That I know 100% was previously linked, we shared the video in the initial CRT.

-but Sonic having a of bunch wisps on him 24/7 would go against his entire character of protecting nature and all that cause he'd literally be trapping animals against his will basically.

No, that's misconstrued. As Runners explains, the Wisps are willing and ready to aid Sonic whenever he needs and stay because they took a liking to his planet. It's literally on the Wisps' profile that they don't allow people to harness their power without their consent. If they were uncomfortable or bothered in any way while encapsulated, Sonic wouldn't be able to harness their powers.


Also also, Windii's channel being deleted means a lot of the missing links are because of that. Which is ALSO something we planned to tackle, but it was sudden.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Also also, Windii's channel being deleted means a lot of the missing links are because of that. Which is ALSO something we planned to tackle, but it was sudden.

It's almost like some people should actually contact the supporters of the verse and those knowledgeable about the verse to gain context before posting a large CRT that affects a popular verse/character.

Yet another misunderstanding that could've been avoided with just a little patience and investigation.

 

[CBslayeR]

Is it really not linked when it states the ability? That's a trend I've been noticing, I think somebody's removing some of the links. I'll dig it up later.

Magic Hands, have you ever even played SA2? It's literally a gif in his profile in the NA/T section.

No, it's from SA2. That I know 100% was previously linked, we shared the video in the initial CRT.

No, that's misconstrued. As Runners explains, the Wisps are willing and ready to aid Sonic whenever he needs and stay because they took a liking to his planet. It's literally on the Wisps' profile that they don't allow people to harness their power without their consent. If they were uncomfortable or bothered in any way while encapsulated, Sonic wouldn't be able to harness their powers.

I'm asking for footage of the quill thing, its only an image. I wanna know if Sonic is reacting to an approaching dinosaur or not

I'm talking about sealing via chaos emeralds, no issues with magic hands

The name threw me off on Time Switch, my bad.

The issue isn't Sonic being able to use them, its just that him carrying them on his person feels OOC and he doesn't do it often enough for it to really be standard.

 

[CBslayeR]

It's almost like some people should actually contact the supporters of the verse and those knowledgeable about the verse to gain context before posting a large CRT that affects a popular verse/character.

Yet another misunderstanding that could've been avoided with just a little patience and investigation.

I misclicked enter and ended up busy while doing this lol, its also my first CRT

 

[ShakeResounding]

I'm asking for footage of the quill thing, its only an image. I wanna know if Sonic is reacting to an approaching dinosaur or not

Ahh, okay.

I'm talking about sealing via chaos emeralds, no issues with magic hands

I actually forget where that comes from, so I'll also wait for a response on this.

The name threw me off on Time Switch, my bad.

It's all good

The issue isn't Sonic being able to use them, its just that him carrying them on his person feels OOC and he doesn't do it often enough for it to really be standard.

Yet why would it be OOC? If it were really OOC, Sonic wouldn't even think about letting himself carry the Wisps. Sonic started his crusade to save his animal friends from being trapped in capsules and robots back in Sonic 1. And Wisps are (unfortunately) a mainstay within a good portion of the Modern titles, both reasons together being why they were accepted as Standard Equipment for Modern Sonic so long ago to begin with. I feel your argument comes from an appeal to his character motives when there's no issue to be had there at all.

 

[CBslayeR]

Yet why would it be OOC? If it were really OOC, Sonic wouldn't even think about letting himself carry the Wisps. Sonic started his crusade to save his animal friends from being trapped in capsules and robots back in Sonic 1. And Wisps are (unfortunately) a mainstay within a good portion of the Modern titles, both reasons together being why they were accepted as Standard Equipment for Modern Sonic so long ago to begin with. I feel your argument comes from an appeal to his character motives when there's no issue to be had there at all.

The wisps are reoccurring sure but the only time he's actively had them on his person is Lost World, that's why it doesn't feel standard. From a design perspective Sonic probably only carries them on him in Lost World because its supposed to appeal to Mario fans, where the newest games at the time had a storage system for powerups. I just realistically see Sonic randomly encountering someone in a fighting situation loaded up with every single Wisp he's ever used.

 

[sanicspood]

I’m pretty sure shake explained why it isn’t causality manip, I don’t remember it being accepted but eh

**** I MEANT IS

stupidass autocorrect

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

The wisps are reoccurring sure but the only time he's actively had them on his person is Lost World, that's why it doesn't feel standard. From a design perspective Sonic probably only carries them on him in Lost World because its supposed to appeal to Mario fans, where the newest games at the time had a storage system for powerups. I just realistically see Sonic randomly encountering someone in a fighting situation loaded up with every single Wisp he's ever used.

They're also carried on person in Runners iirc

 

[ShakeResounding]

**** I MEANT IS

stupidass autocorrect

Da, I did. Sonic, Shadow, and Silver even harming Solaris means they're harming him throughout all of time, as it was one with it and they can still destroy his armor and Sonic can still interact with its consciousness. It makes them needing to be in three time periods null regardless.

HOWEVER, it may not be properly classified through Causality Manipulation. I had asked several staff prior and they told me it was either that or some enhanced sort of Time Manipularion (or other miscellaneous ideas). It's also in their Range section, though that was a unanimous agreement and shouldn't be affected regardless of what happens to Causality Manipulation.

The wisps are reoccurring sure but the only time he's actively had them on his person is Lost World, that's why it doesn't feel standard.

What Glaceon said. It isn't a one-time thing

 

[JED]

When has he travelled to different dimensions and timelines before, he's also never sealed anyone before.

06. It was a major plot point of CC being used to travel between dimensions and timelines.
I will say this, I think sealing comes from when Blaze later said she’d seal herself in a different dimension. But it’s not traditional sealing like say Mafuba. If it was to be treated as just regular BFR I wouldn’t have a problem with that.
As for the missing Windii links, we will have to find someone with a backup first but that is pretty hard atm.

 

[XVII]

A false equivalence. Hyper Sonic was literally used by Modern Sonic in the past, it would remain a key regardless because Classic Sonic's profile is being renovated into Sonic the Hedgehog (Mania Timeline) and Classic is being made a key in Modern's profile. You probably had no idea, in fairness to you, but that's been the plan for a while.

man i'm so excited for the new sonic profiles (probably coming out in 2023 tho)

 

[JED]

man i'm so excited for the new sonic profiles (probably coming out in 2023 tho)

We actually need content to make new profiles (with no E3 I have no ******* clue when the **** Frontiers news is dropping)

 

[XVII]

We actually need content to make new profiles (with no E3 I have no ******* clue when the **** Frontiers news is dropping)

**** covid

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

There is probably a better feat for Sonic to justify his extra perception.

probably tied to the fact that he could feel Shahra's soul speaking to him during the aftermaths of his battle against Erazor.

as for the rest, what Shake and others said.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with ShakeResounding’s evaluations. On Hyper Sonic, Since we treat the Classic games as having occurred in Modern Sonic’s timeline Modern Sonic has used every ability Classic Sonic has. Although, we should probably lose the fan made Modern Hyper Sonic render and replace it with one of Classic Sonic.

Sonic’s P&A needs a revised format in general

Enhanced Senses links:

• Sandopolis Zone
• Silent Forest

Rings are stated to exist in Rivals 2.

Sonic knows how to use Chaos Control to relocate objects as shown when he helps teleport the ARK at the end of SA2

Feats and Optional Equipment from Sonic Chronicles should just be removed. His Extrasensory Perception should be labeled as Enhanced Senses or Precog.

Unaure on Causality Manipulation, leaning towards just removing it.

 

[CBslayeR]

Could people look over the original post again please, not all of the revisions are addressed. Most of the early responses were before I actually finished it since I misclicked and sent it too early

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

For DT, here’s that instance of Sonic running into a Special Zone mentioned earlier

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Since there’s a lot to discuss I’ll try to keep track of everything talked about. If If I misinterpreted something just say so.

Covered​

• Hyper Sonic (Get rid of the Modern Hyper Sonic render tho)
• Analytical Prediction
• Enhanced Senses (Can maneuver around perfectly in pitch black areas)
• Dimensional Travel (Noted to have returned to his world from the Arabian Nights alternate reality. Can enter Special Stages, which are stated to be other dimensions)
• Healing (Can revitalize himself with Rings. Chaos Emeralds can also heal their users and restore consciousness when they get rendered unconscious)
• Time Manipulation/Time Stop
• BFR
• Wisps being Standard Equipment
• Immortality (Type 4) and Regeneration (Low-Godly)

Being Discussed/Scans Needed​

• Death Resistance (Broken link)
• Time Manipulation/Time Stop/Age Manipulation Resistance (Broken links)
• Darkness Manipulation (Evidence needed)
• Matter/Antimatter Resistance (Evidence needed)

Should be removed/Revised​

• Durability Negation and Resistance to it (The Ichikoro Gauge should be listed as Damage Boost or Statistics Amplification)
• Everything from Sonic Chronicles should be removed (Voxai Overmind feat, Optional Equipment, Notable Attacks & Techniques)
• Extrasensory Perception should be Enhanced Senses or Precognition. Needs a clip too
• The “Resistance Negation” should probably be just be listed in the Time Stop justification to note that Chaos Control bypasses one layer of Resistance
• Excalibur’s Power Nullification
• Probably Causality Manipulation

---

I should note CC’s Sealing likely comes from the Duke of Soleanna sealing Iblis in Elise’s soul via a Chaos Emerald and Shadow using Chaos Control to seal Mephiles in the Scepter of Darkness. Sonic would only be considered capable of this through powerscaling.

All abilities derived from Chaos Control should be listed on our pages for the Emeralds.

Also the Werehog’s Invulnerability comes from Unleashed Mode

 

[ShakeResounding]

Being Discussed/Scans Needed​

• Excalibur’s Power Nullification (Wasn’t addressed it seems)
• Wisps being Standard Equipment
• Immortality (Type 4) and Regeneration (Low-Godly)
• Death Resistance (Broken link)
• Time Manipulation/Time Stop/Age Manipulation Resistance (Broken links)
• Darkness Manipulation (Evidence needed)
• Matter/Antimatter Resistance (Evidence needed)

Should be removed/Revised​

• Everything from Sonic Chronicles should be removed (Voxai Overmind feat, Optional Equipment, Notable Attacks & Techniques)
• The “Resistance Negation” should probably be just list in the Time Stop justification to note that Chaos Control bypasses one layer of Resistance
• Probably Causality Manipulation

I also have no idea why it's labelled as Power Nullification come to think of it, so we can probably scrap that.

Wisps being Standard Equipment was covered as well, Sonic's carried them on him during more than one occasion in the Modern Era and has used them even more frequently than that.

Immortality (Type 4) stays no matter what since that's literally how it works. Imo there's enough contextual evidence to inply Low-Godly that I feel the OP literally just up and ignored in favor of "The name means nothing". Yeah, the name absolutely does mean nothing, it's a good thing it wasn't labelled as Low-Godly because of that. Now, can we actually find a clip of Sonic resurrecting? Because I was never able to.

JED probably has a scan for Sonic's Darkness Manipulation, but I do remember Sonic being able to use darkness skills in Secret Rings

Oh, and isn't that Antimatter stuff from Shadow the Hedgehog? I remember that being in a more recent CRT.

Removed/Revised

Would you like to start removing the Chronicles stuff during this CRT?

I agree with the Resistance Negation removal.

We'd need to find what their Temporal AoE would be classified as in terms of what ability it would be. If we can't, then I guess it being noted in their Range section is good enough.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Would you like to start removing the Chronicles stuff during this CRT?

Yeah, maybe just from Sonic for now unless the OP wants to edit the thread to make it about the entire cast.

 

[Theuser789]

This thread reeks of ignorance and lack of research. I will make a bigger post later today adressing everything

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Durability Negation and Resistance to it (The Ichikoro Gauge should be listed as Damage Boost or Statistics Amplification)

to be quite honest the way the gauge functions in gameplay wouldn't be damage boost for merely the fact that once used, it reduces HP to 0 like by using any special move.

 

[Theuser789]

I was going to make a bigger post adressing every point until I read the thread and I realized there's no arguments in the post. The entire OP is just asking other people to do research for him and bring him evidence as if he is King and we are his servants.

For example:

This is not extrasensory perception for one this qualifies more as enhanced senses, and two wasn't there literally a Dinosaur running around shaking the earth in this level? Remove it or add it to his enhanced senses

He doesn't even post proof of this or the context, it's just "Oh this happened to remove it because I say so". News flash dude, the world doesn't revolve around you, if you want something removed, make an argument for it. Simply saying "I don't like it" isn't an argument because your opinion by itself doesn't matter.

The entire post is just "Giv me scans, this should be removed, this should this, this should that." All of that can be countered by just saying "No!" because your opinion is as equally as valid as mine.

Why instead of demanding scans you go out there, research it yourself and see if it's valid or not and then you make a CRT? We aren't your servants, we don't work for you, we are not legally required to spoonfeed you. You should be grateful people replied to you and actually bothered to give out your demands instead of calling your bullshit.

Now, to Mav's post:

Death Resistance (Broken link)

This is from Shuffle, it was from Windii but her channel is gone (OP would've know this if he actually bothered to his research instead of demanding actually capable people)

Time Manipulation/Time Stop/Age Manipulation Resistance (Broken links)

Should find this on Sonic Retro in their CD manual page

Darkness Manipulation (Evidence needed)

This is a Sonic and the Secret Rings skill, it allows Sonic to attack with darkness attacks.

Matter/Antimatter Resistance (Evidence needed)

Black Doom during the fight should have the evidence OP demands (honestly he dismissing it as "just funny name" just shows his ignorance and entitlement)

I should note CC’s Sealing likely comes from the Duke of Soleanna sealing Iblis in Elise’s soul via a Chaos Emerald and Shadow using Chaos Control to seal Mephiles in the Scepter of Darkness. Sonic would only be considered capable of this through powerscaling.

Silver was going to seal Blaze in a different dimension at the end of his story, I would be suprised OP didn't know that with how iconic the scene is

 

[CBslayeR]

Bump, I've added Mavericks post to the bottom of the CRT and slashed through all the stuff with scans provided, sorry for not being active I completely forgot about this and for coming off as demanding people to do stuff for me.


I also found some new scans for Time Switch, and Unleashed mode

 

[CBslayeR]

I just had a brainfart and added the scans to quotes even though Maverick already did it lmao, I'll just add the stuff I found to Mavericks

 

[CBslayeR]

I'm gonna try and find footage for the Dinosaur scan, that scan also happened to die lol

 

[CBslayeR]

Okay so the Dinosaur thing isn't even a precog feat like I thought. Here's footage of it, you can hear the Dinosaur stomping before Sonic even gets there (and he's maxxed out on abilities too I think) More reason to just get rid of the Extrasensory Perception unless there's something else

 

[CBslayeR]

bump

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

More reason to just get rid of the Extrasensory Perception unless there's something else

looks like you actually ignored a comment that I have made on this.

 

[CBslayeR]

looks like you actually ignored a comment that I have made on this.

I missed it lol, I looked around and I don't know where specifically Sharah spoke to him as a soul after beating Erazor. Could you tell me where to look specifically or link it? I found nothing here which is what I assume you were talking about