Mirio Togata vs Swim Swim

[A6colute]

Conversely, she wouldn't be able to phase through objects that are not solid, right?

What do you mean?

 

[Reppuzan]

I mean, it's logical.

If one can only phase through tangible matter, that means they can't phase through matter that's intangible.

 

[A6colute]

If one can only phase through tangible matter, that means they can't phase through matter that's intangible.

She can "swim" through material object. Even if Mario is intangible, he is still material.

 

[Reppuzan]

@A6colute

If he's equally capable of phasing through solid matter, you can't exactly call him "material".

 

[A6colute]

If he's equally capable of phasing through solid matter, you can't exactly call him "material".

Why not? Or elementary particles are not material?

 

[Reppuzan]

@A6colute

Mirio's body is intangible the point that not even air can't stay inside of him.

I can hardly called that material.

 

[A6colute]

Mirio's body is intangible the point that not even air can't stay inside of him.

And why Swim Swim can stay inside him then?

I can hardly called that material.

But elementary particles are MUCH smaller than particles in the air. And they are still material.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

vote for inconclusive,no one can hit eachother and wait until one is sleeping for me is ironic since both can escape with ease

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Has there been a case of a series where 2 intangible characters could touch each other?

Swim Swim's intangibility turns her into water. What about Mirio's intangibility?

 

[Elione-Arisu]

@GoldenScorpions this is the description of his quirk in his page.

• Permeatio: A quirk in which the entire body can phase through anything: including the ground. When he deactivates the quirk inside a mass, he gets catapulted out it. If he adjusts his body in the middle of falling and then deactivates the quirk, he could trigger some sort of "teleportation". He could also activate the quirk to certain parts of his body.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I know that. I read his profile. Still doesn't explain what type of intangibility he is. Does he become kind of like air, or does he become the same material he passes through while he's in it, or does he become an bit like nothingness?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Any clarifications?

 

[Elione-Arisu]

Oh, sorry. His intangibility type is definitely not elemental (by that I mean he does not become fire for example), he does not become the same material he passes through, and he does not do it through speed a la Flash. It's just that he is in a state where everything passes through him, even air. The only thing he can sense is the sensation of falling, and that's all. I'm not sure if it clarifies your doubts. Or do you want me to show pics where he uses it ?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

It's fine, I got it. Another questions now; his profile says "All of his senses except the sensation of falling are disabled while fully intangible and he cannot breath while in this state". Does that mean he can't see, hear or smell when passing through stuff?

 

[Elione-Arisu]

He can see and hear. But he can't breathe.

EDIT : crap, actually he can't. He is blind and deaf as well.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Wow; well that's inconvenient xD

So, I give the win to Swim Swim. In terms of combat, Swim Swim has the advantage of having an unbreakable weapon she masters, extending her range and possibilities.

The downsides of Mirio's quirk where he loses his senses really hinder him, against Swim Swim who have no downsides to her intangibility. Sure, she's weak to harsh light and sound, but the only reason she got killed in the series was because of a magically empowered flash grenade exploding at point-blank range. She is aware of her weaknesses, and is very smart and crafty, so I seriously doubt she would let Mirio get a flash grenade from a shop (where would he even get it?) and use it against her. Magical Girls are also pretty much immune to regular human weapons, so a regular flash grenade might not even do anything. Swim Swim loses no senses with her intangibility, while Mirio loses them by using his quirk, meaning Mirio can't attack while intangible, so if he wants to get his senses back, he has to get out of intangibility and then Swim Swim can strike at the moment. And don't forget Swim Swim has her pills which greatly increases her capabilities.

Finally, it was argued before above, but what A6solute said stands to reason. In the worst case that Swim Swim and Mirio never manage to attack each other, Swim Swim would win a stamina match, due to her magical girl properties. She doesn't need to rest, eat or sleep, and has resistance to fatigue. Mirio remains a regular human, so he has those restraints. While the Energy Pills can be dangerous with overconsuption, like I said, Swim Swim is smart and would realise she wouldn't need to use more after the 1st one, if she can't hit him anyway.

So, while it sounds anticlimactic, A6bsolute's argument of "Swim Swim just will wait until he goes to sleep" has validity, as Swim Swim can just wait until Mirio gets exhausted. He can't just "leave the fight", since it's forced (by us), so he has to stay and fight her, which would tire him eventually.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

No idea about either of them, but I'll go with Swim Swim for Golden's reasons.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bumpy Bump

 

[GoldenScorpions]

BUmp

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

I just have a question, about the whole "while theire intangible, they'd touch each other" topic, wouldnt verse equalization (which as far as i know is part of the standard battle assumptions) make it so that is the case? I mean, if that's the case, Mirio having higher AP than her durability and him having a good hang on how to direct his quirk could give him this in high dif.

at the very least this is not a stomp, if the verse equalization doesn't apply, swim swim major advantage is the stamina, but the only thing that keeps her other stats on par with mirio's is her pills, from wich she has 10, each last 30 minutes, for a total of 5 hours, and each consumption increases the risk of heart failure so it would be possibly even less so that is the real ammount of time this battle can keep going, so it comes down to "can Mirio handle up to 5 hours of combat where noone can touch each other until swim swim gets a stroke?"

for now I am on Inconclusive, I am unsure if mirio can stand a 5 hour long battle, but Swim Swim cant beat him withouth using her pills, which deny the real only and major advantage she has against him.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Is that how it actually works? I understand the concept of verse equalisation for fairness, but would that actually mean they can touch each other even when intangible? That feels like it would defeat the purpose of their powers, no?

Also, what are Mirio's stamina feats? Swim Swim definitely won't lose in terms of stamina, so Mirio would have to hang in there long enough

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

thats the problem, Mirio is a fairly recent character so he hasnt shown many feats aside from blitzing and defeating half class 1-A in 6 seconds, the only comparative is that hes refered as being comparable to pro heroes and would-be number 1

and, aside from the enemy, I know mirio uses his power more for transportation, as he does a sort of teleport with his quirk

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I see. Well, I'd still give the win to Swim Swim as Mirio's intangibility disables his senses. So to me, Mirio either uses intangibility to hit Swim Swim (through the hypothesis that they can hit each other while both intangible via verse equalization) but his senses are disabled so Swim Swim still has the advantage even with her lower Durability compared to his AP, or Mirio keeps his senses but is tangible so Swim Swim can hit him while he can't hit her.

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

I see. Well, I'd still give the win to Swim Swim as Mirio's intangibility disables his senses.

just as a clarification, He only loses his senses the places that he makes intangible, as his intangibility is selective (he can phase his hand torught a wall, and grab an object at the other side, however he cant make said object intangible and bring it with him, but he wont go blind if he doesnt make his eyes intangible, nor he will go breathless if he doesnt make his chest intangible), the way mirio combines his intangibility in combat is to phase throught the ground and alter his position, then turn the intangibility off in one or more parts of his body so by the atoms overlapping launch him at high speeds in the direction he wants, quick enough that it looks like teleporting (this is also that what blitzed basically every character in class 1-A), he can also do this process repeatedly to "teleport" multiple times in quick succession, and since he can do this and for example, keep his fist intangible for punching, He could potentially still keep up on the fight. He mostly goes around the disabled senses by being very battle savy, predicting enemy movements, quick analisis and being very good at developing countermeasures

 

[GoldenScorpions]

So if Mirio uses his power to fully get inside a wall or the floor, then he will have his sense disabled, correct?

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

So if Mirio uses his power to fully get inside a wall or the floor, then he will have his sense disabled, correct?

yep, ihe seems to only lose his senses when he is fully intangible, i think the bnha wiki explains it pretty well http://bokunoheroacademia.wikia.com/wiki/Permeatio

 

[GoldenScorpions]

That was insightful. Based on stats alone, Mirio is stronger, and his pseudo-teleportation from releasing his quirk when inside ground or walls is pretty useful. However, Swim Swim still has an advantage in the fact that she has no drawbacks when using her magic, unlike Mirio. She could "swim" for hours in the ground with no problem, and even if Mirio attempts to do a fast "dive" attack on her from above, Swim Swim could easily block with her weapon (it can't break) or dodge as she's faster than Mirio is terms of movement speed, and speed isn't equalized in this fight. Everytime Mirio attempts that, he'll consume stamina while Swim Swim won't spend anything on dodging/blocking or even attacking due to her constitution. Even if he "teleports" back to the surface before Swim Swim can strike him after a failed "dive attack" attempt, it won't change that Mirio will eventually tire himself out.

With her enhanced senses, she will sense Mirio much better and anticipate attacks while Mirio can't, especially if he's intangible in a way his eyesight and/or hearing is disabled. Swim Swim also survived an direct magic-effective attack from Cranberry, who wields sound magic which is extremely effective against her; if she survived something she's weak to, I can't see her not surviving non-magical punches and kicks.

Finally, she has range advantage with Ruler and her Regenerationn which, while not too high, can come in clutch especially since she can hide in ground/walls whenever she's too in trouble. And considering she outsmarted the smartest character of Arc 1 and all her plans to kill magical girls were successful, she will more than likely find a way to go about Mirio's powers.

It's going to be a long fight regardless.

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

I have a question, Is the unbreakable weapon capable of turning intangible too?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I have a question, Is the unbreakable weapon capable of turning intangible too?

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it's solid

 

[A6colute]

Is the unbreakable weapon capable of turning intangible too?

Yes. And it's still unbreakable even when it's intangible.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

^ I stand corrected. He knows more than me about the franchise

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

Is the unbreakable weapon capable of turning intangible too?
Yes. And it's still unbreakable even when it's intangible.

well , Im thinking on changing my vote to either mirio or swim swim based on this next question, Is swim swim's intangibility selective? as in, can she for example turn her body intangible but leave her arm tangible for a punch, or leave the weapon tangible so she can strike with it, I ask this mostly because trought her powers are lsited in her profile, it doesnt say anything about her methods of attack or how her intangibility affects anything when she turns it off while inside something.

being as mirio's intangibility is selective, regardless of his weakness, thanks to his battle tactness, he could finetune parts of his body to bypass the weapon but still punch her body, however if she is able to weaponize her intangibility and its not "its either shes whole intangible or not, with no inbetweens", then I could vote for her

 

[GoldenScorpions]

it doesnt say anything about her methods of attack or how her intangibility affects anything when she turns it off while inside something.

Looks like something to precise on her profile. However, it hasn't been shown or said what would happen if she canceled her intangibility when inside the ground (not in Vol.1 at least). Method-of-attack wise, she is very cautious and attentive to her enemy and surroundings, and doesn't rush head-first. She analyses her opponent before striking at the best moment.

As for intangibility, yes, it's selective. She can leave her torso, arms and legs intangible, while having her hands, feet and weapon tangible to attack. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoC83vyVzhQ&t=43

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

Yikes, that was gruesome, and convinced me I dont like swim swim as a character xD But welp! I guess my vote is with her, at least until mirio appears and does something in the upcoming chapters, maybe then ill change my mind, right now swim wins 6/10 times for me

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Yikes, that was gruesome, and convinced me I dont like swim swim as a character xD

yeeeeah... Swim Swim certainly isn't the most liked character in the series. There's a reason why she did "that", and she's blindly loyal to her mentor's words which included "that".

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bummp!