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- #81
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Minor Gran Rey Cero Upgrade
- Thread starter Arc7Kuroi
- Start date
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- bleach espada gran rey cero
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Do you have a scan of the page for that?
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- #83
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Alright, thanks.
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I agree with this
The kana for Las Noches '虚夜宮' and to destroy '破壊する' match up the statement above
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I do think the statement is too vague to slap vaporization on it. Even Yama’s destruction of Karakura town uses something like pulverization.
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Main Kanji: 解放状態にある十刃が使える, 黒い虚閃。通常の虚閃と比較して、桁違いの威力を有する技。
Translation: "Usable by the Espada in their released state, Cero Oscuras. In comparison to the regular Cero, it is an ability that is an order of magnitude more powerful."
Sub Text Kanji: 一撃で一護の仮面を割るだけでなく、虚夜宮をも破壊する程の強力さ。
Translation: "In a single blow Ichigo's mask is broken, it also has the power to destroy Las Noches."
This is my translation and picture from my databook.
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How can we say that statement is too vague to apply vaporization when we explicitly seen vaporization happen?!
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i'm a dirty frenchie so if you need translations you can ask away.
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- Thread starter
- #94
Res Ulq's CO vaporizes
Res Ulq's CO grazes and vaporizes like 25% of LN
Res Ulq's CO is stated capable of destroying LN
GRC is the ultimate Cero
GRC can destroy LN for anyone, even the weakest Espada
Res Ulq's GRC > Res Ulq's CO
If Res Ulq's CO can vaporize a large portion of LN via grazing it, and lore wise can bust the entire thing, why would his GRC be able to when it's explicity greater than his CO
I'm not saying all GRC vapes LN, I'm saying for anyone >= Res Ulq, their GRC vapes LN. Like for everyone below Res Ulq yeah it's 100% vague fair enough, I'll concede there, but for Res Ulq and above? Naw he barely clips LN and vaporizes a chunk that massive + 2 LN destroying statements, it's quite obvious what GRC can do for characters of that level.
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Replace the music with bumps
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Thought we agreed to use the explosion method?
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- Thread starter
- #99
Mitccccchhhhhhhh read the past couple responses!!!!
Vaporization for >= Res Ulq characters, something less for the lower tiered characters
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The issue is that you want one statement to mean multiple different things depending on other characters when there's nothing in Ulquiorra's words, or the words of the databook, that suggests that.
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I mean that would make hollowfied bankai Ichigo 6A and my dream of fullbring bankai Ichigo being High 6A would be closer to coming true lol.. I’m joking of course
well a little bit, that’d be pretty dope but idk I feel like the scaling would be pretty ****** lol
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Bump
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bump
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- #106
Main Kanji: 解放状態にある十刃が使える, 黒い虚閃。通常の虚閃と比較して、桁違いの威力を有する技。
Translation: "Usable by the Espada in their released state, Cero Oscuras. In comparison to the regular Cero, it is an ability that is an order of magnitude more powerful."
Sub Text Kanji: 一撃で一護の仮面を割るだけでなく、虚夜宮をも破壊する程の強力さ。
Translation: "In a single blow Ichigo's mask is broken, it also has the power to destroy Las Noches."
This is my translation and picture from my databook.
We accept that Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras vaporizes, we also accept that anyone stronger than Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras vaporizes, as indicated by Espada 3, 2, 1, and 0 all scaling above Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras on their profiles.
Gran Rey Cero is the ultimate Cero, therefore Res Ulq's most powerful Cero would be if he used a Gran Rey Cero. Res Ulq's Cero < Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras (vaporizes) < Res Ulq's Gran Rey Cero. Res Ulq's Gran Rey Cero would vaporize by proxy of being a more potent Cero than Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras, which already vaporizes.
Gran Rey Cero can destroy Las Noches, and as you can see with the translation and scan provided by IMade, Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras can also destroy Las Noches. Additionally, we see that by merely grazing Las Noches Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras vaporized a fourth of it, the statement highly implies that had Ulq actually aimed his Res CO at LN he would've vaporized the entire structure, and his GRC is even more potent and can destroy LN.
The opposition is saying the GRC feat is merely too vague to assume the type of destruction. However, for characters that scale to or above Res Ulq, that is simply not true. We Res Ulq accidentally vaporize a fourth of the castle via grazing it with a weaker Cero, it's implied with statements that had Res Ulq aimed CO at LN it would've made it go bye bye, and then GRC is more potent and has another statement for being able to destroy LN.
It's obvious that for characters who scale to or above Res Ulq, their CO's can vaporize massive chunks (if not all) of LN, and their GRC's (most potent Ceros) should be able to easily vaporize LN.
That's the low down hoe down.
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agreed with this take
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I don't agree with vape since we never see the feat actually happen and the context behind the destruction can't be assumed or connected to other feats
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Then just scale the Gran Rey Cero over the Cero Oscuras Calc
What the Cero Oscuras vaporized for Res Ulq is not the same material as Los Noches, so we can't assume that his Gran Rey Cero would vaporize all of Los Noches
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- #111
Huh? He vaporized the top of LN with CO. What? What do you mean it isn't the same material as LN... The dome is LN, it is part of LN
If CO can vape massive amounts of LN via grazing + a statement implying it could do it to the entire LN + GRC > CO + GRC can destroy LN, it's more than fair to assume GRC would vape LN.
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Perhaps make a calc using multiple ends (Vape, Pulv, Violent Fragmentation), provide evidence for the ends (Cero Oscuras vaping part of the roof and/or pulverizing the pillars and parts of the roof).
Then we can see which to go with.
Then we can see which to go with.
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- #113
Done
I stand by vaporization for characters who scale to or above Res Ulq, read this post for my reasoning.
As for anyone who scales below, I think pulverization or violent frag is fine.
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Personally I agree with Pulverization because of the few Cero feats we have of vaporization (Ulquiorra and Ichigo both vaporized parts of Las Noches' roof on different occasions) and pulverization or evidence of them.
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- #115
Pulv for all?
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I'm agreeing with Mitch.
If you already have a calc for just the visible destruction ofwhat Cero Oscuras has done, then just scale Ulquiorra's Gran Rey Cero to be superior to his Cero Oscuras.
We don't calc attacks based on "They could have destroyed more material if there was more material present for them to hit." If an attack vaporizes a crater into the ground, we don't double it and say "It could have also vaporized an equal amount of material above ground if it was present."
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I feel like y’all are misconstruing Arc’s argument. He isn’t saying to buff the CO calc, he is saying that GRC > CO > LN. The current GRC calc uses a completely hypothetical scenario of the GRC making a giant explosion that spans the area of LN and not the actual destruction of LN. If you agree that GRC > CO and you agree that GRC will destroy LN, what is the issue with applying the destruction method of CO (which isn’t unique to it or a special feature that is absent in other Ceros) to GRC?
The proposal in this CRT is more grounded in actual evidence from the manga and databooks than the currently accepted calc which seems to have had no issues being accepted.
The proposal in this CRT is more grounded in actual evidence from the manga and databooks than the currently accepted calc which seems to have had no issues being accepted.
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@AnonymousBlank; I don't agree that Gran Rey Cero would vaporize all of Las Noches.
Also Arc is sort of arguing for a buff for the Cero Oscuras calc. The Cero Oscuras has a statement for having the power to destroy Las Noches, so unless I've misread what is further up the thread he is arguing for using vaporization of all of Las Noches for the Cero Oscuras.
Also just because we can agree on the current calc being unsatisfactory doesn't mean we need to replace it with this.
Also Arc is sort of arguing for a buff for the Cero Oscuras calc. The Cero Oscuras has a statement for having the power to destroy Las Noches, so unless I've misread what is further up the thread he is arguing for using vaporization of all of Las Noches for the Cero Oscuras.
Also just because we can agree on the current calc being unsatisfactory doesn't mean we need to replace it with this.
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Yes but why? Is it because we don’t see the feat? Weird since we already accept a calc for the same feat except that calc is completely wrong. And before someone argues “two wrongs don’t make a right” calcing hypothetical feats is already a thing we allow. What is happening here is we are replacing a bad calc with something far more accurate.
That’s not how I understood. From what I can see, he is pointing out that CO is also stated to have the power to destroy LN and by virtue of GRC > CO, GRC vaping the entirety of the structure is far more feasible as CO (which does vape) is said to be able to completely destroy LN. Sure one can argue the possibility of CO vaping all of LN but it has an actual feat that can be seen and calced. The actual feat > hypotheticals. Rn the statement is being used as support for GRC doing so.
It’s not about it simply being unsatisfactory. It’s that completely inaccurate with the only pseudo relevance being that the explosion covers LN’s area.
That’s not how I understood. From what I can see, he is pointing out that CO is also stated to have the power to destroy LN and by virtue of GRC > CO, GRC vaping the entirety of the structure is far more feasible as CO (which does vape) is said to be able to completely destroy LN. Sure one can argue the possibility of CO vaping all of LN but it has an actual feat that can be seen and calced. The actual feat > hypotheticals. Rn the statement is being used as support for GRC doing so.
It’s not about it simply being unsatisfactory. It’s that completely inaccurate with the only pseudo relevance being that the explosion covers LN’s area.
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