Minor DBS revisions (Ep. 129)

[AKM sama]

I'll keep it short and simple.

• Jiren continuously spams shockwaves of his rapid fire punches on Goku. After blocking them, Goku starts to counter and cancel them by doing the same.

Feat starts from 0:09

Danmaku for Jiren and UI Goku.

• UI Goku completely nullifies Jiren's condensed energy ball. Previously, SSJB Evolution Vegeta also nullified Toppo's energy balls twice.

For UI Goku - starts from 2:22

For SSJB Evolution Vegeta - at 0:40 and 0:50

This is similar to Beerus' ability from episode 13 & 14 and Toppo's ability during the Zen Exhibition Match- Limited Power Nullification (Can negate energy attacks).

• Goku can now create barriers to prevent damage. So that can be mentioned in the "Notable Attacks / Techniques" section.

 

[JackJoyce]

Vegeta nullifying hakai is considered as Resistance to Existence Erasure

 

[AKM sama]

Well, Vegeta punched hakai. But I was referring to the previous 2 regular energy balls.

 

[Duhhhhhh1]

1) Agreed 2) Agreed 3) Energy Nullification sounds good tho IDK if it's on this wiki or not

 

[RM97]

Seems good to me so I agree with the upgrades

 

[AKM sama]

Energy Nullification is more accurate, yes. But I don't think it's on this wiki.

 

[Duhhhhhh1]

Aight then Limited Power Nullification is okay

 

[Aceraspire]

Also,since Goku is focused on fight,but his body is now doing on it's own,shouldn't he be able to resist mind manipulation

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

seems fine to me

 

[Sidali891]

I'm pretty sure Energy Nullification falls under Power Nullification. They're fundamentally the same, nullifying a kind, multiple or all kinds of powers. Goku, as shown with UI, nullified Jiren's energy with relative ease, the same as Beerus' nullification of the universe destroying energy.

In other words, there's no need for "limited" just blatant Power Nullification with an explanation saying (Can nullify energy attacks).

 

[Mania568]

should we consider:

-kamehame barrier for large AOE attacks as its the first thing people say goku has 0 resistence against in versus mode (not that he couldnt do it before, but still)
-same shield as jiren or relative to it, seems he needs to focus more than him, but it stopped thousands of punches from jiren and kept the rock from being pushed out of bounds.

-agree with the ones mentioned above.

 

[AKM sama]

Yeah, I completely forgot the barrier thing. Now it can finally be mentioned in the "Notable Attacks/Techniques" section.

 

[KingPin0422]

I'm a bit iffy on the Resistance to Fear Inducement. Whis' statement felt more like a figure of speech to me.

I agree with everything else suggested here, however, including the Forcefield Creation proposed by others.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'm pretty sure Energy Nullification falls under Power Nullification. They're fundamentally the same, nullifying a kind, multiple or all kinds of powers. Goku, as shown with UI, nullified Jiren's energy with relative ease, the same as Beerus' nullification of the universe destroying energy.

In other words, there's no need for "limited" just blatant Power Nullification with an explanation saying (Can nullify energy attacks).

No, if it only negates energy then "Limited" needs to be placed so people wont wank this to say he can negate hax and everything else. Thatd be NLF.

Though yes I agree with the upgrades too.

 

[AKM sama]

Okay, I added the barrier thing as suggested by others.

 

[Bluetrekking]

I also agree.

 

[Sidali891]

@ProfessorKukui4Life

Eh, have you read my comment? I specifically said to write an explanation saying it only nullifies energy attacks. With that there, how can you expect people to wank?

 

[Ovrhide]

@ProfessorKukui4Life

Eh, have you read my comment? I specifically said to write an explanation saying it only nullifies energy attacks. With that there, how can you expect people to wank?

Maybe wait for it to possibly be power nullification, and not just limited. Jiren is going full power next espisode and we don't know if goku will be nullifying his energy attacks, which he probably won't. It's most likely just limited power nullification.

 

[HrishikeshM]

like all the people above me, i also agree with all the 4 points...

duh they are very straight forward

 

[Ovrhide]

I would actually wait till 130, to see if there's more to them than just this. This is totally fine as it was shown, but I doubt it's jirens and gokus full extend

 

[LordGinSama]

Agree with the upgrades.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I also think it's resistance to fear and mind manipulation

Goku isn't using his "mind" per say in Ultra Instinct. That and Whis' statement really makes it seem like mental abilities won't work on him. That things such as fear and hesitation burn to nothing in ultra instinct

 

[Ryandswagger]

I agree.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Though, how can you "burn" fear and hesitation?

 

[Akreious]

You're taking it too literally. All that Whis means that ulterior functions such as fear, panic, and other aspects of the mind no longer applies to Goku. MUI is what UI should be; true detachment from the mind. Whis even says that eventually, Goku will delve so deep into UI that he even loses perception, himself and his opponent. Fighting "truly" of without the mind.

 

[KingPin0422]

^ See, this is the problem I had with the Resistance to Fear Inducement. It really all seemed figurative in my eyes.

In fact, I'm starting to question the Limited Power Nullification as well. What Goku and Vegeta did was most likely just your usual "stopping the attack through sheer power" thing. We've seen this before in Dragon Ball.

 

[Geova2507]

^ See, this is the problem I had with the Resistance to Fear Inducement. It really all seemed figurative in my eyes.
In fact, I'm starting to question the Limited Power Nullification as well. What Goku and Vegeta did was most likely just your usual "stopping the attack through sheer power" thing. We've seen this before in Dragon Ball.

Vegeta i don't know, but Goku it wasn't sheer power, he didn't even touch in the energy to nulify it.

 

[Ovrhide]

Let's wait till 130, where we will get more info

 

[TheRustyOne]

Danmaku needs to be added for Goku and Jiren.

Also Goku needs his Barrier.

 

[Akreious]

@KingPin0422 Do you have any evidence or proof it's figurative? Because Goku closing his eyes and the increasing aura suggests that he is indeed casting off the thought processes when he fights. Plus Whis is a master and basically the BEST source when it comes to UI, being a master himself.

 

[KingPin0422]

Ah, forgive me. I assumed from your post that you were arguing against the resistance.

I can't prove it is figurative, but one thing that bothers me is that Jiren did not show to be able to induce fear via some sort of hax.

Though, this is just me being used to resistances being shown via actually shrugging off the hax in question, so I could always be wrong about this.

 

[Akreious]

The feat in question was Goku getting detached from such emotions; losing those distractions. You can't manipulate/induce what isn't there/doesn't apply. It's like trying to give a computer Ebola. Just isn't going to work.

 

[Ryukama]

I don't see how one's current fear disappearing suddenly gives resistance to fear inducement. It's like saying if I overcame my fear of jumping off the high diving board that I could resist a mindhax user magically manipulating my brain to give me fear.

 

[Promestein]

Agreed with Ryu.

He does have a mind, it's just that he's not acting consciously anymore, he's acting on instinct. Just like before, a powerful enough mental attack can screw him over. There are people who could force him to start acting consciously again and thus lose Ultra Instinct, and people who can just flood his senses and mind with garbage data to confuse and disorient him.

Goku already has barriers.

 

[Akreious]

It's not that Ryu. It's literally the fact that Fear, Panic, and other such "Thoughtful" concepts no longer matter to Goku. All of it is burned away, and all that is left would be Goku, his opponent, and the battle. And even then, Whis says even those will get burned away as he dives deeper into instinct; which would be Mastered Ultra Instinct.

Edit: The quote "The difference in power. Hesitation, panic, fear itself, turn to nothing in the flames " is what I'm talking about. It's not Goku suddenly losing his fears, it's Goku not even having it anymore.

Edit Edit: @Promestein Actually, that's wrong. It's also stated by Whis that a Mastered Ultra Instinct delves further than just Instinct, so that argument holds no water anymore. It's not "just" instinct. And even then, nobody argued Goku was immune to that type of mindhax. But stuff like turning Goku into a mind-dead slave wouldn't work since the body operates independently from the body. Furthermore, According to Whis, he won't be able to conciously recognize himself anymore with ALL of his actions being fully automatic; further than "Instinct". So it's still questionable if screwing with Goku's concious side would affect the Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku.

 

[Ryukama]

That is a complete assumption. All Whis said is that "fear turns to nothing". If anyone else who is now bravely fighting someone they were originally frightened of is described that their "fear turns to nothing" would you apply this power to them?

Heck even if someone doesn't have fear at all that doesn't mean one couldn't induce that on them. That's the point of fear inducement. To give someone fear that they don't already have (cause if they did what would be the point of inducing it?)

 

[Promestein]

Fancy talk for Goku discarding consciously thinking and acting on pure instinct =/= actual complete resistance to mind and fear manipulation.

The fear, hesitation, and panic that Goku would normally feel are gone because he's discarded consciously thinking. If someone forced them onto him he wouldn't have any defense.

There are mind manipulators who can erase the subconscious. Goku would lose Ultra Instinct forever if that happened.

"Delving further than instinct" means little without elaboration. Even if his body is acting on its own mind hax can force him out of the state and control his actions. Saying otherwise is like saying that Goku will be in this state forever because his own conscious thoughts can't take him out of it and he no longer has any control over himself, and will thus forever act on instinct until he dies. You're interpreting this dialogue as broadly as possible without much basis.

 

[Akreious]

Not to sound angry or mad, but I feel like you're both completely ignoring Whis saying that Mastered Ultra Instinct delves further than Instinct. You're both assuming that this is still "Just Instinct" and that Goku's mind still has a huge say in what he does. And I never said complete resistance to mind and fear manipulation Promestein.


If someone forced fear onto you, but you already discarded Fear, then it wouldn't do anything. It's like applying fear to someone who doesn't operate with fear in their mind. Think of it like this; You force fear into my mind when I don't reason with such things. You FORCE it into me. My body doesn't work with my mind anymore as it's fully automatic; it wouldn't do anything. And before you say Goku's mind is still there and can turn off UI because of it, It was a problem that Goku was able to control his actions in UI at all; it made his strikes weaker. Mastered Ultra Instinct is the perfected one; his mind doesn't have a say.


And that's just extremely powerful mindhax Promestein OwO. If you're able to erase goku's concsiousness as well as subconscious, I'm fairly sure most "mind-manipulation resistors" would get screwed.

 

[Ryukama]

Again, someone used to be terrified of this guy, they are now bravely fighting that person, which leads to their fear being described to "turn into nothing".

The reasonable conclusion that they overcame the fear of fighting that person.

Even if you want to assume this line means fear entirely is now completely and utterly gone from his mind and that he is now incapable of feeling fear, you still have to prove that he's resistant to someone forcibly manipulating his mind/subconcious to instill fear into him. And no "I don't have fear" is not proof that fear cannot then be forced upon you from mindhax.

I'm not supporting a power based on assumption on top of assumption. Sorry.

 

[Promestein]

This is going to turn into a circular argument.