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Meant to make this thread earlier. I mentioned what I said in an earlier CRT for these guys but to keep it more organized I'll just bring my suggestions here. They're somewhat minor, but have a lot of stuff to support the new abilities so im splitting the thread in different sections as followed. Here we go. (Following the ways of Dragon in making Digimon threads ovo)
Arceus's Plate Typing
Here it shouldnt be too much to request to add in. It's the most minor and its through Arceus's plates, which im surprised has never been brought up.
Through the power of the type plates, Arceus is able to become [Insert Here] type to negate whatever attack comes his way, defensively. We all know this. However, what should also be acceptable is him being able to use them, offensively and regularly, like any pokemon. In other words, when becoming a type, Arceus should be perfectly capable of using the natural abilities of a pokemon type when he switches between them. For example, say Arceus becomes a ghost type in battle. When becoming a ghost type, Arceus should already gain the abilities any ghost pokemon would obtain from typing alone, such as intangibility, phasing, and so on. Or if he became a psychic type, he would gain a psychic pokemon's skill of mind control (he has mind manip. anyway but thats beside the point). And all of this would be vastly upscaled from weaker pokemon.
Even without the moves pertaining to a certain attribute, Pokemon are well depicted and known to use elemental manipulation without even using the moves. A Pikachu can still manipulate electricity without the use of thunderbolt. Same thing with a Squirtle and water gun, Charmander and flamethrower, Pidgey and gust, etc. Even if Arceus doesnt have the move of a specific type (sans Judgement), there is no reason why he cannot still manipulate the element of that type. Evidence as followed:
Anime
- Jewel of Life. While not exactly used in battle, the jewel is made up of the Water, Electric, Grass, Ground, and Dragon plates. And the jewel has been used to restore fertile life to an entire region that lacked it. Perfectly along the line of at least water, grass and ground manipulation to result in fertilizing land.
- The Prison Bottle. Mary explicity depicts the Ground, Fire, and Water plates as the 3 Great Forces of Nature when Ghris made the bottle for Hoopa. 38:17 . Though everyone can take this as they will.
Game
- Arceus was born with literally all Pokemon types already at his natural disposal. Something we all know and accept.
- Quote from the lore: "The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon.". Arceus bestows all pokemon the power of the types, and he already directly gave the Creation and Lake trio's their typings anyway.
Manga
Biggest one of all
As clearly seen in the pictures here, Arceus when switching plates conjures up the literal elemental forces from [Insert Here] plate and uses it against everyone. Electricity comes from the Zap Plate, rocks from the Stone Plate, leaves from the Meadow Plate, it even goes as far to make a whole body of water when Arceus uses the Splash Plate.
Dialga and Palkia's regular attack changes
Now for Dialga and Palkia (and debateably the other god tiers)
Doing some further digging on Gen 4 material (some we constantly deal with), i've discovered Dialga and Palkia should be able to do far more destruction than we give them credit for. Physical, Mental, and Spiritual levels of destruction that is. In other words, Dialga and Palkia should be given the ability to destroy the body, mind, and soul of whomever they fight against, even with just their presence. Evidence? Quite a fair amount for this:
Games
-In quotes:
""... ... Everything is ready for the creation of a new world. Now, all will end. And everything will begin. With this, the Red Chain made from the crystals of the three lake Pokémon. And this, the Red Chain I replicated with technological means... With these Red Chains I will pry open the portal to another dimension. I command that you unleash your power for me..."
"Dialga, the mythical Pokémon, and the master of time! ...And the other. Palkia, the mythical Pokémon, and the master of space and dimensions!"
"I've waited so long for this moment, Dialga and Palkia. Shaping this world is a double spiral of time and space. Yes, the very things that you have the ability to control! You will do my bidding! I will have your abilities as mine! With the power I wield, I will create an entirely new world! The incomplete and ugly world we have now can disappear. I am resetting everything to zero. Nothing can remain. It is all for making the ultimate world. A world of complete perfection. Nothing so vague and incomplete as spirit can remain."
"...I should have expected as much. Uxie, "The Being of Knowledge." Azelf, "The Being of Willpower." And Mesprit, "The Being of Emotion"..."
"The Pokémon have come to protect Sinnoh? Pathetic and worthless. It takes the three of them, the three lake Pokémon that symbolize spirit, to balance either the Pokémon of time or space. But they can't maintain balance against the two. Not when both Dialga and Palkia are here. Their coming here is in vain. So much meaningless drama. Now, <player>. You've constantly interfered with my plans, but you will be forgiven. After all, there will remain no spirit for all time when I am done. All spirit will disappear. It will be ripped away... From you! From your Pokémon! From those precious to you...! It is time! My dream will be my reality!"
Should be clear cut and dry. It outrights states Cyrus's intention of literally erasing the "spirit" that the Lake Trio themselves brought forth upon the birth of his new world, which makes up the mind and souls, the overall awareness of all people and pokemon in the Pokemon world. And Dialga and/or Palkia were able to do this just by being present at Spear Pillar. So with the universe erased (physical), and the LT's spirit (mind and soul) gone with it, that would give Dialga and Palkia physical, mental, and spiritual destruction. And before anyone says "speculation, they never did it", USUM already gives us confirmation that in another universe Cyrus gets his perfect world so these 2 definitely have success with doing what Cyrus wanted.
Its debatable on whether or not Giratina and the Lake Trio can get this, however Arceus is a no brainer.
Anime
Aside from the anime's depiction of Team Galactic's mission from the games, even in "Rise of Darkrai" Dialga and Palkia demonstrate such feats, even with their presence. Well...on Darkrai anyway, he clearly gets destroyed to nothing. His body, mind, spirit, all gone.
However, this does show that their attacks are incorporated with such erasure-type properties to erase Alamos Town either by being there or with their normal attacks. Manga versions shouldnt be any different IIRC so no need to post them here. EDIT: Manga versions do help as support. but they're posted down in the reply section anyways.
Resistances
Not much to say here. Sans Arceus, the god tiers should be given resistance to Dialga and Palkia's destruction of bodies, minds, and souls.
-Dialga and Palkia completely resist each others power.
-Lake Trio are able to subdue either Dialga or Palkia (and they were completely uneffected by their reset of the universe.).
-Giratina => Dialga and Palkia
-Darkrai can fight both Sealed Dialga and Palkia to the point where they need to actively attack him to destroy him.
Conclusion
Suming everything up here:
*Arceus should obtain the natural abilities from the type plates like any pokemon would and have it scaled higher than theirs (not that impressive for his tier, but still notable to add above other things)
*Casual destruction of the body, mind, and soul should be given to Dialga, Palkia, and Arceus (and anyone else that could have it argued for)
*Resistances are in the same boat as the former
That is it. Does everyone look/not look okay to add?
Arceus's Plate Typing
Here it shouldnt be too much to request to add in. It's the most minor and its through Arceus's plates, which im surprised has never been brought up.
Through the power of the type plates, Arceus is able to become [Insert Here] type to negate whatever attack comes his way, defensively. We all know this. However, what should also be acceptable is him being able to use them, offensively and regularly, like any pokemon. In other words, when becoming a type, Arceus should be perfectly capable of using the natural abilities of a pokemon type when he switches between them. For example, say Arceus becomes a ghost type in battle. When becoming a ghost type, Arceus should already gain the abilities any ghost pokemon would obtain from typing alone, such as intangibility, phasing, and so on. Or if he became a psychic type, he would gain a psychic pokemon's skill of mind control (he has mind manip. anyway but thats beside the point). And all of this would be vastly upscaled from weaker pokemon.
Even without the moves pertaining to a certain attribute, Pokemon are well depicted and known to use elemental manipulation without even using the moves. A Pikachu can still manipulate electricity without the use of thunderbolt. Same thing with a Squirtle and water gun, Charmander and flamethrower, Pidgey and gust, etc. Even if Arceus doesnt have the move of a specific type (sans Judgement), there is no reason why he cannot still manipulate the element of that type. Evidence as followed:
Anime
- Jewel of Life. While not exactly used in battle, the jewel is made up of the Water, Electric, Grass, Ground, and Dragon plates. And the jewel has been used to restore fertile life to an entire region that lacked it. Perfectly along the line of at least water, grass and ground manipulation to result in fertilizing land.
- The Prison Bottle. Mary explicity depicts the Ground, Fire, and Water plates as the 3 Great Forces of Nature when Ghris made the bottle for Hoopa. 38:17 . Though everyone can take this as they will.
Game
- Arceus was born with literally all Pokemon types already at his natural disposal. Something we all know and accept.
- Quote from the lore: "The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon.". Arceus bestows all pokemon the power of the types, and he already directly gave the Creation and Lake trio's their typings anyway.
Manga
Biggest one of all
As clearly seen in the pictures here, Arceus when switching plates conjures up the literal elemental forces from [Insert Here] plate and uses it against everyone. Electricity comes from the Zap Plate, rocks from the Stone Plate, leaves from the Meadow Plate, it even goes as far to make a whole body of water when Arceus uses the Splash Plate.
Dialga and Palkia's regular attack changes
Now for Dialga and Palkia (and debateably the other god tiers)
Doing some further digging on Gen 4 material (some we constantly deal with), i've discovered Dialga and Palkia should be able to do far more destruction than we give them credit for. Physical, Mental, and Spiritual levels of destruction that is. In other words, Dialga and Palkia should be given the ability to destroy the body, mind, and soul of whomever they fight against, even with just their presence. Evidence? Quite a fair amount for this:
Games
-In quotes:
""... ... Everything is ready for the creation of a new world. Now, all will end. And everything will begin. With this, the Red Chain made from the crystals of the three lake Pokémon. And this, the Red Chain I replicated with technological means... With these Red Chains I will pry open the portal to another dimension. I command that you unleash your power for me..."
"Dialga, the mythical Pokémon, and the master of time! ...And the other. Palkia, the mythical Pokémon, and the master of space and dimensions!"
"I've waited so long for this moment, Dialga and Palkia. Shaping this world is a double spiral of time and space. Yes, the very things that you have the ability to control! You will do my bidding! I will have your abilities as mine! With the power I wield, I will create an entirely new world! The incomplete and ugly world we have now can disappear. I am resetting everything to zero. Nothing can remain. It is all for making the ultimate world. A world of complete perfection. Nothing so vague and incomplete as spirit can remain."
"...I should have expected as much. Uxie, "The Being of Knowledge." Azelf, "The Being of Willpower." And Mesprit, "The Being of Emotion"..."
"The Pokémon have come to protect Sinnoh? Pathetic and worthless. It takes the three of them, the three lake Pokémon that symbolize spirit, to balance either the Pokémon of time or space. But they can't maintain balance against the two. Not when both Dialga and Palkia are here. Their coming here is in vain. So much meaningless drama. Now, <player>. You've constantly interfered with my plans, but you will be forgiven. After all, there will remain no spirit for all time when I am done. All spirit will disappear. It will be ripped away... From you! From your Pokémon! From those precious to you...! It is time! My dream will be my reality!"
Should be clear cut and dry. It outrights states Cyrus's intention of literally erasing the "spirit" that the Lake Trio themselves brought forth upon the birth of his new world, which makes up the mind and souls, the overall awareness of all people and pokemon in the Pokemon world. And Dialga and/or Palkia were able to do this just by being present at Spear Pillar. So with the universe erased (physical), and the LT's spirit (mind and soul) gone with it, that would give Dialga and Palkia physical, mental, and spiritual destruction. And before anyone says "speculation, they never did it", USUM already gives us confirmation that in another universe Cyrus gets his perfect world so these 2 definitely have success with doing what Cyrus wanted.
Its debatable on whether or not Giratina and the Lake Trio can get this, however Arceus is a no brainer.
Anime
Aside from the anime's depiction of Team Galactic's mission from the games, even in "Rise of Darkrai" Dialga and Palkia demonstrate such feats, even with their presence. Well...on Darkrai anyway, he clearly gets destroyed to nothing. His body, mind, spirit, all gone.
However, this does show that their attacks are incorporated with such erasure-type properties to erase Alamos Town either by being there or with their normal attacks. Manga versions shouldnt be any different IIRC so no need to post them here. EDIT: Manga versions do help as support. but they're posted down in the reply section anyways.
Resistances
Not much to say here. Sans Arceus, the god tiers should be given resistance to Dialga and Palkia's destruction of bodies, minds, and souls.
-Dialga and Palkia completely resist each others power.
-Lake Trio are able to subdue either Dialga or Palkia (and they were completely uneffected by their reset of the universe.).
-Giratina => Dialga and Palkia
-Darkrai can fight both Sealed Dialga and Palkia to the point where they need to actively attack him to destroy him.
Conclusion
Suming everything up here:
*Arceus should obtain the natural abilities from the type plates like any pokemon would and have it scaled higher than theirs (not that impressive for his tier, but still notable to add above other things)
*Casual destruction of the body, mind, and soul should be given to Dialga, Palkia, and Arceus (and anyone else that could have it argued for)
*Resistances are in the same boat as the former
That is it. Does everyone look/not look okay to add?
