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Mind flayer discussion/revision

Arceus0x

Arceus0x

15,658
10,670
So i have some questions. You see, the mind flayer has the high 6-A tier because he is connected with everything in his upside down version of the earth. My problem is the fact i do not think he has enough power to fight characters that are high 6-A as he could get obliterated instantly. Now you may deny this argument, but there is another character with this kind of world. Godzilla earth. That fella was able to turn all plants into metalic plates with his existance and there are the servum who are fully controlled by goji. They both have an extrmely similar world control, however they have different tiers. Here is the question, should we nerf the mind flayer or should we give goji the high 6-A treatment. Argue plz, i want to sort this out.
 
They are different. The plants are simply infused with his cells and Servum are derived from Godzilla. They are kinda like his children, but not quite. The former isn't even connected to him or else everything would be shooting particle beams at humans on sight.

Mind Flayer is basically everywhere.
 
> Likely Multi-Continent level (The Mind Flayer is a collective hive-mind connected to everything in the Upside Down, a desolate and lifeless parallel earth filled with roots creeping throughout all of its interior and spores floating across its atmosphere, and is heavily implied to be what caused the destruction of all life across the planet in the first place)

This looks way too speculative for a proper rating. Being connected to plants via a Hivemind does not grant High 6-A AP.

we have no idea how life in the Upside Down was brought to the way it is currently, or how long it took.

There is no reason why the Mind Flayer should be considered to be Likely Multi-Continent level.

The Mind Flayer should be considered to be At least 8-B+ for fighting Eleven on roughly equal grounds while possessing Billy.
 
Damage3245 said:
> Likely Multi-Continent level (The Mind Flayer is a collective hive-mind connected to everything in the Upside Down, a desolate and lifeless parallel earth filled with roots creeping throughout all of its interior and spores floating across its atmosphere, and is heavily implied to be what caused the destruction of all life across the planet in the first place)

This looks way too speculative for a proper rating. Being connected to plants via a Hivemind does not grant High 6-A AP.

we have no idea how life in the Upside Down was brought to the way it is currently, or how long it took.

There is no reason why the Mind Flayer should be considered to be Likely Multi-Continent level.

The Mind Flayer should be considered to be At least 8-B+ for fighting Eleven on roughly equal grounds while possessing Billy.
Click to expand...
Exactly, while it was within Billy, who is not the Mind Flayer's true form, also Eleven was weakened by the Mind Flayer and Billy was enhanced during that fight.

The reason the Mind Flayer is believed to be 6-A was because he is possibly the one who turned the Upside Down into the desolate landscape we see in the series, requiring him to be Mult-Continent or Planet level to do so.
 
I know why it is considered High 6-A, but the reason given for that is not sufficient.
 
Because "turning the Upside Down into the desolate landscape we see in the series" in not inherently a High 6-A feat.

Where is the calc proving it?
 
You could accomplish the same thing with enough time and effort without being that strong. Godzilla Earth mentioned here could do it if he focused on destroying everything rather than killing humans. 7-C Ghidorah accomplished the same thing on Venus.
 
Cropfist said:
What should be its tier otherwise?
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scaling to 11, at least 8-B. i mean he clashed with her and it took her all power to push one tentacle away.
 
Cropfist said:
Their only direct fight I remeber was flayed Billy pushing back against a weight TK'd by El.
Click to expand...
you must rewatch the series. El was closing the protal and then the MF tried to hit her with a tentacle and she pushed it back using her full force. in s3 she was nerfed.
 
The Mind Flayer is implied to have created the storms seen in the Upside Down when he sends a tornado after Will in season 2 with intention to possess the boy.

Will, who I believe has some form of quantum super-positioning whenever he views into/enters the Upside Down in season 2, also appears in a location equivalent to the one he is currently in when he views into/enters the Upside Down.

Every location that Will ends up in has the same storm. It has no visible breaks in the clouds like a normal storm would have, suggesting that it spans a large area and it is unnaturally dense. Storms can easily be classified as Multi-Continental because of systems like hurricanes/typhoons/cyclonic storms, which are known for crossing large areas over the span of a few days to about a month (the record time and distance traveled is held by Super Typhoon/Major Hurricane John of 1994, which lasted for a total of 31 days and traveled a distance of 13,280 km (8,251.8094 miles), which is much larger than the distance between Panama, Panama and the North Pole, which spans 5,597 miles (9,007.498 km)). Then there is Typhoon Tip of 1979, which could easily swallow up about half of the United States (from about Dallas, Texas to New York City, New York) due to being at least 2,220 km (1,380 miles) in wind-field diameter.

Is it a completely accurate analogy? Not really since the Mind Flayer's storm is supernatural-in-nature and the hurricanes/typhoons/cyclonic storms that I mentioned are the ones that set the upper level of how big hurricanes/typhoons/cyclonic storms can get, how far hurricanes/typhoons/cyclonic storms can travel, and how long hurricanes/typhoons/cyclonic storms can last on Earth. However, it is the best way that I can support that the Mind Flayer is at least Multi-Continental in Attack Potency at this time.
 
Wouldn't that count as range rather than attack potency? Hurricanes are Large Town level at best and the whole nuclear arsenal of Earth is about Island level. I really doubt the storms generated here were that much greater than literally all the nukes in the world.
 
Maybe just give him high 6a environmental destruction or perhaps give him variable durability tiers like a giant whale character whose name I can't remember ?

Alternatively you can always upgrade the entire verse to High 6A :)
 
LordWhis said:
Maybe just give him high 6a environmental destruction or perhaps give him variable durability tiers like a giant whale character whose name I can't remember ?
Alternatively you can always upgrade the entire verse to High 6A :)
Click to expand...
Can you find the page for that "giant whale character?" I would like to see what you are talking about before I throw in my two cents on what could be done.

Also, the Mind Flayer is everywhere in the Upside Down. The proof is in the vines and dirt. The Mind Flayer and all that is connected to pretty much have a collective seizure all at once when they are affected by fire in any way. An example is when the scientists were trying to burn them during season 2. The dirt flew into spiraling tornadoes in one episode. In another season 2 episode, the vines squirmed away when a torch was brought to it while Will, who was not being touched by the flame, screamed in pain in the hospital scene. Also, it is clear that what Will sees while he is possessed, the Mind Flayer also sees as once Will knew he was in his shed in another episode, the Demodog staged Demogorgons came flocking to Will's house.
 
there is never proof of the MF creating all those storms. we also never see the storms go beyond hawkins territory in the updown. most of those feats are based on assumptions. the tornado that the MF created to follow will was pretty small tbh and it was his own arm. even if he did create the storms, they are not similar to hurricanes. the center of them are similar but any other location seemed pretty chill. Also, the storms may exits due to the post-apocalyptic state of that world, so the MF may have just been there.

He could potentially become 6-C to high 6-C if he did create them, however, those feats are all based on assumptions that he is the one who created them, which we never see. we also dont see the movement of those clouds which would be neccessary for kinetic energy. If we are talking about overtime destructions, then we could say that someone like cloverfield (45m one) is 7-A due to him probably being able to destroy a mountain overtime.

overall:

-no proof he made them

-no proof that there are clouds beyond updown hawkins

- dang, we dont even have proof that there are places beyond hawkins and it is not just that one town created via accident or sth.
 
I genuinely think The Mind Flayer should be Unknow tier. I mean, it hasn't really been seen doing any Multi-Continent level feats. Besides, most of the Mind Flayer's statistics are unknown with the exception of the AP only because the Upside-Down is a dimension connected to our world. BUT that's just creating the Upside-Down. I doubt the Flayer could bust Multi-Continents or something.

Besides, The Upside-Down could be a lot harder to bust. Giving The Mind Flayer the High 6-A tier doesn't make much sense. As Eleven was able to defeat it once. Same with other characters. So going by that logic, It would look like Eleven is deserving to be upgraded to High 6-A. Not saying that she should before anyone questions it...
 
first... bump

second... we need the mind flayer to scale to El as she countered his tentacle with all her force while she was closing the gate. He should have simply an at least 8-B tier until further proof.

There is simply nothing he has done to be high 6-A. There is no proof that he is even at fault for the world being like that, not to mention he could have done that overtime. Season 4 is coming and we could get more info, but for now let's nerf him down.
 
Here's my immediate take. I don't know much about Genderless as a verse or franchise, but despite him being Type 4 (global sized), the mind flayer shouldn't be considered High 6A if said justifications take quite a bit of time. He should be "Unknown, likely 6A via sheer size", imo
 
So has what was accepted been applied here?
 
Okay. No problem.

Is somebody else here willing to handle it?
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. Tell us here when you are done.
Click to expand...
Welp, my computer is screwed. It will be a while before i can access it again normally (currently im using the phone to somehow respond). What we need to do is to change the mind flayer from the current tier to at least 8-B (should be notably superior to demogorgons and comparable to eleven).
 
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