Minamoto no Yorimitsu vs Twenty-Fifth Baam (Legendary Monsters Exterminator hunt yet another Legendary Monster)

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So i'll make a two Raikou matches in-row because f*** it, tho i admit why make two matches in row is because i'm curious about the next one (spoiler: it'a about Raikou vs Obito). Anyway...

The Legendary Heian-Kyo Youkai/Monsters Exterminator, now in modern era stumbled upon an unknown man who is classified as Irregular and thus feared as a monster who bring the calamity, the Daughter of Indra reminded with the youkai/monsters that bring the calamities who she has been slayed in the past, with that she challenged the Irregular Monsters in a fight, to determine that he would not bring the calamity upon the land, will she win and successfully exterminating another calamity monster, or will monster prevail and killing Minamoto no Yorimitsu?

Kill or be Killed, Hero or Monster, It doesn't Matter
-
Carnage Duel
-
Let's Dance!
(Yeah, i'm trying using the Arcys round start meme here )

---

• Base Yorimitsu/Raikou and Red Taryssa Transformation Baam are used
• 1st Thorn are restricted
• Speed are equalized
• Both in character
• Ox-King Storm Call are unrestricted
• Place located in Kansai International Airport
• Starting Range: 10 Meter
• Win via anything!!!
• The Irregular, Calamity Monster: 7 (Arceus, WHYNAUT, Users, Lyod, Milly, Enryu, Sonic)
• The Legendary Heian Greatest Monster Exterminator: 3 (Expectro, Mageman, Pain)
• Inconclusive: 0

---

VS

​

 

[Arceus0x]

idk whether he can kill her but he sure as heck can incap.
What is the AP difference?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

idk whether he can kill her but he sure as heck can incap.
What is the AP difference?

Type 9 immortality? It's a non-combat applicable

Raikou scaled from 26.6 Gigaton, and by the revision her NP are in Low 6-B level

 

[Arceus0x]

NP?

 

[Arceus0x]

Ah noble phantasm

 

[Arceus0x]

anyways i was talking bout regen.

 

[Arceus0x]

but i think Baam has more than enough to knock her out. Fear, soul manip and invisibility won't do squat against baam so i legit see no wincons.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

anyways i was talking bout regen.

Mid-Low regen are not that hard to be dealed with, no?

 

[Arceus0x]

re-read it

 

[Arceus0x]

ah you're talking about bam

 

[Arceus0x]

doesn't matter. All he needs is to spam shinsoo and minamoto won't do squat with her 26gt ap

 

[Arceus0x]

unless i misunderstood sth

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Can you just posting one comment instead spamming? Just asking

 

[Arceus0x]

i say everything i want most of time, i just don't understand what you mean sometimes and post before understanding.

Anyways.
what is minamoto's durability?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

You can just double checked it before commenting so it'll avoid the possible unintended "spam" above

As for the durability i think it's the same as her AP i believe, oh and forgot about soul hax thing, it was combat applicable and has a dimensional properties on it

As for AP gap, she can just amplified her AP with Mana Burst and Mystery Killer (and since Shinsoo by nature fall to nasuverse standard as mystery, same with Baam as Irregular)

 

[Arceus0x]

baam still has dura negation + immobilization combo and this still doesn't stop him from inifnite spamming minamoto with shinsoo

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

BUMP!!

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Yeah, that's kind of right, Baam always prefers to fight from afar and spam his ranged attacks (that's pretty much what he does in 90% of the webtoon in his fights so far, and now Shinsoo Loop lets him to spam ranged attacks even more than his Season 2 self) and if he's forced into CQC, he can use the Fast Skip + Piercing Technique combo to finish her off, that's what he currently does most when he went to hand-to-hand combat

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I'm inclined to think Raikou handily outskills, but from the looks of things, not sure how much good that'll do her

 

[Creaturemaster971]

How feasible is it to dodge Baam's ranged attacks and close the distance?

 

[Arceus0x]

1. yes it isn't useful here
2. baam can literally copy complex techniques including a space bending swordstyle after seeing it once, idk if mina's skill is useful here
3. as feasible as dodging somewhat large rain whilst you're a human

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Yeah those hardcounter her swordsmanship pretty well.

 

[Arceus0x]

can't slash it if it's everywhere.
I believe it is a stomp

 

[ImNot4nUser]

I'm inclined to think Raikou handily outskills, but from the looks of things, not sure how much good that'll do her

Someone outskilling Bam? Seems hard to believe.
What feats do she have because Bam has this:

Spoiler: Baam skill copypasta

Also to set the record on Bam skill:

Bam is able to copy and instantly master moves after seeing them once, he can join/mix several hundreds of skill and join them to his style.

Could copy an entire martial style an style that by WoG normal ppl wont be able to use as good as Arie's family member, yet Bam could go toe with toe with one of the most skilled known member of the Arie family.

We're starting to get more information on the Arie Family in the main story.
Arie Swordsmanship is not just of Arie Family.
Normal people can learn the forms of the technique. They're good with swords for a reason.
It's just that they can't use it as a Arie member can;;

That style could bend space,and follow abstract lines of attack he could copy the entire style after he fought it only 3 times MIND YOU, only the third time he got a sword, he probably copied it the first time as all canon says that he copy and master at simple sight.
Before there was an statement that no one could copy the style but that was before the previous Word of God so it likely got retconned:

The reason Baam could use Hoaqin's skills
was because the last clone is Albelda (Hoaqin's younger sibling) + the spirits.
Since Albelda has the blood of the Arie, the power of the Arie Family could be used ^^.
The old Baam, no matter how well Baam tries to copy it, can't use the Arie-style swordsmanship.

Martial and Instinctive Senses:
He can adapt to his enemy pattern attack, has a danger sense and instinctive reaction from natural instinct(even from totally soundless and invisible attacks) not super anything just instinct.

His senses are so good that he can sense several invisible attacks coming from different directions, UNTIL he straigforwardly learnt to SEE the invisible attacks by seeing it's flow on shinsu(air).

• Can copy entire styles/and skill and master them instantly.
• Can mix hundreds of skills and add them to his own style.
• Can adapt to his enemy attack pattern and outgrow them.
• Instinctive Reaction and Danger sense from Natural prowress.
• His senses which are innate of him are very good.

Seems hard to believe

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I invited some of Nasuverse members here, but they're taking too long to come

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Geez I didn't know Baam was that good

if I ever manage to fix the skill debates and make them fun again, please drop by

To be fair, Okada Izou could also copy and master entire esoteric fighting styles at a glance, including those that also ****** with space and were utilized by once-in-an-era geniuses with flawless battle records even against people as skilled as Servants, and Raikou is considered to be more skilled than he is.
Okada fought Li Shuwen, and the latter was skilled enough that even he couldn't copy his moves properly, with him being called "a talented learner, but still just a learner". And Raikou is considered roughly equivalent to Li Shuwen in terms of skill, albeit more specialized towards group battles rather than one-on-one duels.

 

[Mageman460]

Baam can't use Shinsoo as he's in the real world, so mom gives him head pats and ara aras.

Hmmm, this is really tough tbh. Baam opens with Danmaku most likely which won't be enough to take down Raikou. Seeing this he'll go for his more powerful stuff and eventually his Dura Neging stuff. Unfortunately, I'd consider Irregulars to be highly mysterious beings, so when Baam gets close, Raikou takes a single hit and then goes for a well placed sword strike with Mystery Killer and Mana Burst buffs and cripples Baam. The fight is significantly easier from there.

Raikou also easily takes skill. She's insanely skilled, even as a berserker. Her Rider form in Shimosa blocked Fate Hax attacks from Musashi. I believe her Rider state was also stated to be just as insane as her Berserker state as a note.

Raikou's Mana Burst lets her amp power, speed, and range. Her Bow can potentially match the smaller Shinsoo attacks, but not the larger ones. She should be able to use the bow to blow a whole through the Shinsoo wave if needed by using its true name, but that's kind of an unknown afaik.

If Baam pulls out the First Thorn ... then he wins likely high diff. If not Raikou takes it after a long and hard fight.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

To be fair, Musashi didn't have the really bullshit fatehax yet. At this point she could only shave down possible futures.

Still highly impressive though, so we'll see what he has to say about that in comparison to Baam.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

including those that also ****** with space and were utilized by once-in-an-era geniuses with flawless battle records even against people as skilled as Servants

tbf, in TOG this style he copied is characteristic of an entire family(which means something in the thousands) the most experts(White, whom he doesn't scale at all, he only bested his imperfect not fully prime version).
Can casually generate Danmaku of hundreds of slashes in a single swing that bends space to hit you from different directions and because of law manip they will alway hit and can't be blocked.(unless u have something like teleport, time, or esoteric thingys to avoid the slashes), he could potentially gain analytical precog too, but we need to wait till the official translations get out : p

Seeing this he'll go for his more powerful stuff and eventually his Dura Neging stuff.

His Dura neg is used in combo with immobilization, that's what he does in character, what can she do against that. he usually uses RFC+Piercing techniques and it's gg from there, it's quite the casual combo too.

Raikou also easily takes skill. She's insanely skilled, even as a berserker. Her Rider form in Shimosa blocked Fate Hax attacks from Musashi. I believe her Rider state was also stated to be just as insane as her Berserker state as a note.

That proves nothing in superiority tho? The comment of CM971 explained more in detail and it didn't seem superior to Bam, he only proved copy skill being similar and a scaling of skill. Bam seems to edge thanks to instincts too(superior senses, IR, Danger sense) and a comparable copy ability if anything. But that's only from what has been told.

Raikou's Mana Burst lets her amp power, speed

Bam reactive evolution does that already and only goes up from there.

Advantages:

• Since they have similar AP, Bam reactive evo means he will get faster, sturdier and stronger the longer he fights meaning that he will have the advantage in these categories and it becomes worse the longer she drags it out.
• Bam IR/senses will say no to the high 6C and low 6B in which he will use the thorn and get to the level of the attack and he can receive it pretty well.
• Immobilization+Dura neg gg as always, even worse if she decides to attack with something above her caliber because she still is physically island level and Bam becomes low 6B and oneshots, even worse with dura neg, bye bye to her inter organs that or she gets totally vaporized via Stardust.
• Bam dominates in CQC thanks to comparable skill+immobilziation.

Anyways, Bam goes in danmaku, see it's getting prolonged and sooner or later decides to use Reverse flow control+Piercing technique, and it's over.
I vote for Bam

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Raikou's Instinctive Reaction should in theory also be absolutely insane, due to upscaling greatly from Lancelot's. Unfortunately she lacks concrete feats for it.

That sword style does sound more intense than what Okada has properly copied. It'd probably take a Sword Saint on the level of Yagyu or end-of-event Musashi to deal with, and they're decently more skilled than Raikou is.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

That sword style does sound more intense than what Okada has properly copied. It'd probably take a Sword Saint on the level of Yagyu or end-of-event Musashi to deal with, and they're decently more skilled than Raikou is.

ofc the style is, but Bam isn't in the level of the one who did that he did copy his style perfectly, he just, can't do that yet, he only bested that dude, when he was imperfect and not in his prime(which also meant he wasn't as skilled) just clarifying ofc.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Ah alright got it.

Do you have scans of what level of skill Baam is at?

Fate is mostly skill scaling so it's gonna be a bitch to figure out how Baam stacks up to the verse overall (though so far he seems to be at least at or above Raikou)

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Now I can participate.

Raikou should have a great amount of AP advantage, as someone with strength Rank A she is a lot above the 26.6 Gigatons currently used to base servants and since Mystery Killer is active (because Baam use divine power and his insides aren't normal lol) so the AP gap become greater (Shuten even though also have Rank A strength is overwhelmed by the strength of Raikou), and Mana Burst increase that AP gap again, so I'm pretty sure she one shot base form.

Raikou is crowned by the Throne itself as the most skilled person of her era, skilled to the point of be able to use everything she wield, even if is her first time using said object, at master skill level that surpass actual persons who trained with said thing all their life, she literrally just picked a random yoyo and still can figth against skilled servants. Far above Izou who alredy can copy any technique, probably above Hōzōin Inshun because Musashi needed to perfect her ability to cut karma against her. Suzuka needed to use her second NP to only scratch the cheek of Raikou after a long fight and by this point Suzuka was really tired and beated. Baam it's skilled, yes, but Raikou probably have the edge.

Danmaku is good, but since they are 10 meters apart she can physically close the distance without much problem and with Mana Burst the distance is nonexistent.

 

[Arceus0x]

Wait Baam has the red thryssa which is low 6-B. What ap are we using?

Either way baam goes for immobilization + duraneg gg

Mina won't be able to escape immobilization because it's molecular immobilization that bypasses high level resistance

If this doesn't work nothing stops Baam from immobilizing and orb spamming (danmaku)

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Ah alright got it.

Do you have scans of what level of skill Baam is at?

Fate is mostly skill scaling so it's gonna be a bitch to figure out how Baam stacks up to the verse overall (though so far he seems to be at least at or above Raikou)

I mean he really doesn't have competition or scaling since he is a H2H user and there aren't a lot of those in-verse who are actual martial artist, but he is also good at Swords because, Bam see Bam does ig, he never used one until he created one, and he was comparable to Hoaqin who is above Inieta who are atleast better than unkowns fodders of arie family, all of them are users of the arie swordmanship which can do ¨anything¨ with swords which doesn't mean a lot ig.

This is Arie swordmanship btw:

Spoiler: Arie Swordmanship

Space Bending to attack from all sides as well as no blind spot:

Spoiler: Space bending:

Hundred of slashes with a single swing(Only Prime White scales) :

Spoiler: Bullshit the Swordmanship

The sheer amount of slashes

in a single swing

Laws of the tower:

In regards to White's sword...
Well, like all swords of the Arie Family, there is the matter of it being uncatchable due to unpredictibilty, as well as due to strength.
As I said it literally in the release, it may be a pre-defined Laws of the Tower that exists beyond the Laws of Physics. (say wha?)
The Tower of God in a sense is a world where a game-like system is blended into a real world,
so we can have expressions like that.

Source.

In regards to White’s sword…
Well, like all swords of the Arie Family, there is the matter of it being impossible to parry due to unpredictability,
as well as being too strong to parry.
As per the original intention of the series, it’s probably the same as how the Tower’s Rules are set outside the Laws of Physics. (say wha?)
Tower of God itself, in a sense, is a worldview where a gamified system is merged into their world,
so I think it’s possible for it to be expressed like this.

Source.
The law make so the sword will always hit.(and how to counter)

Like I said last time, Hoaqin’s blade has no blind spots.
Whether from the back for super-close-combat, the sword will ultimately land..
Arie swordsmanship is special like that, and there’s no good techniques against it.
Either overpower them with sheer force, or just attack them before they are ready..
Boro’s special so he can block his swords. Imperfectly, but still…

SIU blogpost.

Raikou is crowned by the Throne itself as the most skilled person of her era, skilled to the point of be able to use everything she wield, even if is her first time using said object, at master skill level that surpass actual persons who trained with said thing all their life,

Woah, like Bam copied an entire swordmanship despite never using a sword before, mastering the entire style and going at par with someone which is in the ¨best¨ in skill as an Arie (non ranker) member can be.

Far above Izou who alredy can copy any technique,

Technique? then that's inferior, Bam copied an entire style, and a technique that took someone hundreds of years to master after seeing it once(or well, experiencing it once).

probably above Hōzōin Inshun because Musashi needed to perfect her ability to cut karma against her. Suzuka needed to use her second NP to only scratch the cheek of Raikou after a long fight and by this point Suzuka was really tired and beated. Baam it's skilled, yes, but Raikou probably have the edge.

this is more skill scaling but okay.

Raikou should have a great amount of AP advantage, as someone with strength Rank A she is a lot above the 26.6 Gigatons currently used to base servants and since Mystery Killer is active (because Baam use divine power and his insides aren't normal lol) so the AP gap become greater (Shuten even though also have Rank A strength is overwhelmed by the strength of Raikou), and Mana Burst increase that AP gap again, so I'm pretty sure she one shot base form.

this is certainly the nice part, the problem is again, Bam IR/senses saying no, something is off, use the thorn. And from there it's pretty much over, it's not like Bam is a tank either his main tactic is engaging in long range fight to analyze his opponents fightning style and afapt to his patterns of attacks, he will be immobilizing and creating distance seeing how close they are. And im sure af that she can't don anything to RFC.

Not like that oneshots either. their difference is of 1.7 even if it got stronger that's far from x7(and because of energy resistance too : p)

This excludes Long range power null of shinwonryu, which light nullifies energy attacks, and could slowly dissolve Karaka shinsu. A low 6B, and it did that when he was low 7B.

 

[Arceus0x]

Also why do you assume he'll just get hit? Ik you don't know but Baam dodged dozens of invisible weapons wielded by a person with a literal millenia of experience on instinct to a point where he felt like he sees them and that is WAY before he went to train with 100s of combat masters, in fact the baam you see and the baam i mentioned have a good 3 training arcs between each other.

 

[Arceus0x]

Also of course one thin we're missing... He can fly

 

[Creaturemaster971]

When did Raikou do the yoyo thing? Mastering weapons instantly is more of Lancelot's thing than Raikou's so I'd be surprised if she could do that, though I don't doubt it.

Okada can copy entire styles yes, but this swordsmanship seems far above Okita's style, which if I recall correctly is the best that Okada can copy. This is just based on hearsay, however, I still need to watch the actual event to confirm.

Musashi never fought peak Hozoin, which was specifically stated.
We know that he's slightly above Okada Izou, roughly equal to Li Shuwen, somewhat inferior to Scathach, and far below Munenori Yagyu. All of which also apply to Raikou, so you can't really argue that Raikou is solidly above Hozoin.

They all outskill Red Hare though, which is already insane.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Also of course one thin we're missing... He can fly

Which is doesn't matter, she can just snipe him by using her bow or Urabe bow

As for Red Taryssa thorn, that's why i listed "unrestricted Ox-King Sorm Call" since it would be Low 6-B

 

[ImNot4nUser]

I still see no answer in Bam imobilizing her via reverse flow control and then filling her interiors via piercing technique. 7-7