Mimihagi Profile Revision

[Deceived3596]

I’ve revised Mimihagi’s powers and abilities, added new abilities, removed previous abilities and resistances which aren’t applicable anymore, and updated the profile to match current standards.

I’ll now explain what’s been added and removed.

Spoiler

Mimihagi​

Removed Superhuman Characteristics since it’s in the Soul Physiology blog.

Removed Precognition and Mind/Empathic Manipulation resistances since both are covered by Mimihagi’s Acausality (Type 2) and Abstract Existence (Type 1)

Added Likely Immortality (Type 1 - Mimihagi embodies the concept of "stillness" and such shouldn't age[1], has existed for over one million years after being torn away from the Soul King[1])

Added Abstract Existence and Incorporeality (Type 1 - 4-D - Conceptual [Type 2] - Mimihagi lacks "true" physical form[1], rather, they exist purely as an incorporeal mass of shadowy Reishi shaped into that of a hand[1]. Mimihagi embodies the concept of "stillness"[2], embodying said concept on an ontological level[3])

Added Acausality (Type 2 - Mimihagi, on an ontological level embodies the concept of "stillness"[1], a being "without progress" (Future) nor "retreat" (Past)[1], but rather, only remains "still" and "without motion" (Present)[1]. A being which is the ontological opposite of Prenida[1], who embodies and governs the concept of "advancement"[2]. With the likes of Yhwach being incapable of preserving Mimihagi's future with "The Almighty"[3] despite the fact he's capable of peering through and understanding[4] an infinite amount of futures[5] and possibilities with "The Almighty"[6])

Added Large Size (Type 5 - The Mimihagi is long enough to reach into the Reiokyu from the Seireitei[1], which has a distance of 1.4652e10 m between the two structures)

Added Absorption (Biological, Soul, Mental and Conceptual - Mimihagi is capable of consuming others, even those entirely comprised of Reishi like Yhwach[1])

Added Forcefield Creation (Mimihagi's entire body is made up of shadowy, abstract Reishi[1], which can be actively manipulated and controlled by Mimihagi to attack their opponents with, it can even be used to create barriers of darkness to block attacks as well[2])

Added Fusionism (Mimihagi can fuse with other beings, such as fusing with Jushiro Ukitake to prevent the advancement of his illness[1])

Added Conceptual Manipulation (4-D - Type 2 - Mimihagi embodies and governs the concept of "stillness"[1], a universal constant which defines the reality it governs[2], this defined "reality" includes things like individual entities, be them physical, non-physical or abstractions given "form". And even the universe itself, with "stillness" able to cause the previous "universe" to "stagnate"[2], with "stagnation" causing things to become "without progress" (Future) and "never retreating" (Past)[2], but rather, remains only "constant" and "still" (Present)[2]. The Mimihagi is the ontological opposite of Pernida, who governs the concept of "progression"[1], which, just like Mimihagi's governance of "stillness". Is a universal constant which defines the reality it governs, with both being "two sides of the same coin" in regards to the "universe" per se, as "progression" and "stillness" caused the previous "universe" to remain "without progress" but to "sway to and fro" in conjunction, causing many things to remain "ambiguous"[2])

If anything needs to be explained in more depth, or simplified then please ask and I'll try my best to explain away your confusions, as I don't wanna confuse anyone reading this thread. Especially staff.

Also the domino effect this causes for Yhwach and Aizen will be explained within a separate thread, this thread is only for getting Mimihagi’s stuff accepted, and that's it.

But with explanation given, let's get into the voting/discussion portion of this thread.

Voting:

Agree: @Arcker123, @Shmooply, @Everything12 (Agrees with everything else), @Excel616, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit, @Strife304, @LordGinSama, @AxisPowerRanger, @AnonymousBlank, @Damage3245 (Agrees with everything else), @Duedate8898 (Agrees with everything else), @Hellscream, @KillerNerd007, @CloverDragon03, @Lynieryz, @Arc7Kuroi

Disagree: @Everything12 (Disagrees with AE, Acausality and Conceptual Manipulation), @Damage3245 (Samething as Everything), @Duedate8898 (Samething as Everything)

Neutral:

 

[Arcker123]

Agree. It's a spicy upgrade but everything seems well justified.

 

[Shmooply]

After seeing the blog and seeing you get into poo poo piss baby convos with other users about it off-site, I agree.

 

[Deceived3596]

After seeing the blog and seeing you get into poo poo piss baby convos with other users about it off-site, I agree.

It isn't my fault that Dread wasn't understanding basic English

 

[Shmooply]

It isn't my fault that Dread wasn't understanding basic English

Certified woman moment, for real for real.

 

[Everything12]

Added Abstract Existence and Incorporeality (Type 1 - 4-D - Conceptual [Type 2] - Mimihagi lacks "true" physical form[1], rather, they exist purely as an incorporeal mass of shadowy Reishi shaped into that of a hand[1]. Mimihagi embodies the concept of "stillness"[2], embodying said concept on an ontological level[3])

Disagree, nothing actually states they lack a 'physical' form, and them embodying a concept alone is not enough proof for being an abstract existence and has been rejected before.

Added Acausality (Type 2 - Mimihagi, on an ontological level embodies the concept of "stillness"[1], a being "without progress" (Future) nor "retreat" (Past)[1], but rather, only remains "still" and "without motion" (Present)[1]. A being which is the ontological opposite of Prenida[1], who embodies and governs the concept of "advancement"[2]. With the likes of Yhwach being incapable of preserving Mimihagi's future with "The Almighty"[3] despite the fact he's capable of peering through and understanding[4] an infinite amount of futures[5] and possibilities with "The Almighty"[6])

One stop putting captions under your scans that say stuff not in the scan. Two the existence of Mimihagi is not shown in the scans to be on a Conceptual or ontological level you statements seem to say they are on, and lacks sufficient evidence for Acausality Type 2.

Added Large Size (Type 5 - The Mimihagi is long enough to reach into the Reiokyu from the Seireitei[1], which has a distance of 1.4652e10 m between the two structures)

This is fine.

Added Absorption (Biological, Soul, Mental and Conceptual - Mimihagi is capable of consuming others, even those entirely comprised of Reishi like Yhwach[1])

Fine with anything but the conceptual part.

Added Forcefield Creation (Mimihagi's entire body is made up of shadowy, abstract Reishi[1], which can be actively manipulated and controlled by Mimihagi to attack their opponents with, it can even be used to create barriers of darkness to block attacks as well[2])

Looks fine (besides the abstract part)

Added Fusionism (Mimihagi can fuse with other beings, such as fusing with Jushiro Ukitake to prevent the advancement of his illness[1])

Makes sense, but your scan isn't good proof. Use a better one.

Added Conceptual Manipulation (4-D - Type 2 - Mimihagi embodies and governs the concept of "stillness"[1], a universal constant which defines the reality it governs[2], this defined "reality" includes things like individual entities, be them physical, non-physical or abstractions given "form". And even the universe itself, with "stillness" able to cause the previous "universe" to "stagnate"[2], with "stagnation" causing things to become "without progress" (Future) and "never retreating" (Past)[2], but rather, remains only "constant" and "still" (Present)[2]. The Mimihagi is the ontological opposite of Pernida, who governs the concept of "progression"[1], which, just like Mimihagi's governance of "stillness". Is a universal constant which defines the reality it governs, with both being "two sides of the same coin" in regards to the "universe" per se, as "progression" and "stillness" caused the previous "universe" to remain "without progress" but to "sway to and fro" in conjunction, causing many things to remain "ambiguous"[2])

Rejected for similar reasons as the above, your scans doesn't say what you say they are and don't have sufficient evidence.

 

[Damage3245]

The scans do seem to say that Mimihagi "controls" stillness, not that it embodies stillness. Unless I've overlooked a scan.

 

[Excellence616]

Agree

 

[Arcker123]

One stop putting captions under your scans that say stuff not in the scan.

He's just using synonyms to explain his point.

Two the existence of Mimihagi is not shown in the scans to be on a Conceptual or ontological level you statements seem to say they are on

the use of the word "Ontological" in this case just refers to how their existences are polar opposites which is very strongly implied if not outright stated in the scan, I fail to see how this objection is substantial.

and lacks sufficient evidence for Acausality Type 2.

Why? You didn't provide a rebuttal beyond pointing out Deceived using synonyms to explain the point better.

 

[Deceived3596]

Disagree, nothing actually states they lack a 'physical' form, and them embodying a concept alone is not enough proof for being an abstract existence and has been rejected before.

It's directly shown to lack "physical form" within the scans provided, and it isn't just them "embodying" a concept alone, don't cherry pick my argument like that, the entire argument behind why it would be Abstract Existence is because they're an incorporeal mass of shadow Reishi which embodies the concept of "stillness" on an ontological level. Which would be Abstract Existence (Type 1) as clearly explained on our Abstract Existence page.

You haven't intelligently countered this yet.

One stop putting captions under your scans that say stuff not in the scan. Two the existence of Mimihagi is not shown in the scans to be on a Conceptual or ontological level you statements seem to say they are on, and lacks sufficient evidence for Acausality Type 2.

First off, no because i'm arguing that's what the scans denote, so i'm allowed to explain my argument in more depth. It literally is shown, Mimihagi embodies "stillness" itself, with "stillness" being a universal constant which defines the reality it governs, it's abstract and non-physical, it's ontologically different from progression. Everything provided supports this interpretation. You haven't addressed those arguments yet.

I did, in this scan provided it clearly caused The Soul King's existence (which is what Ontological denotes, one's existence/nature of being) to become without motion, and "stay still", but because of the counter-existence of Pernida's "progression" it left The Soul King's existence in a paradoxical mess. If you aren't even reading the scans i'm posting then you shouldn't even be commenting, because this is beyond blatant.

Rejected for similar reasons as the above, your scans doesn't say what you say they are and don't have sufficient evidence.

Actually read my entire argument, and the scans provided before making blatantly wrong assertions.

 

[Deceived3596]

The scans do seem to say that Mimihagi "controls" stillness, not that it embodies stillness. Unless I've overlooked a scan.

You did, just because it doesn't directly say "embodies" doesn't mean it doesn't embody the concept of "stillness", because it's directly implied it does embody it because of it effecting The Soul King on an ontological level, and since the Mimihagi is "stillness" itself, it would effect itself on an ontological level, similarly to what it did with the Soul King.

 

[Everything12]

You don't give a caption below scans because you are giving their interpretation of the evidence. You aren't meant to do that as it only serves to try to guide the opinion of the one evaluating the evidence.

As for my issues with the 'ontological' statements. That is because once again you giving interpretations of things not stated in the scans, and without this form of interpretation you can't judge these statements of governing stagnation to be applicable for the level of manipulating a concept or being an abstract existence.

As for anyone saying I haven't debunked anything or my evaluation I inaccurate, that is solely your opinions and not that of me or the others evaluating this CRT. I am simply giving my interpretation which is just a vallid as your interpretation, and the only people who can decide which interpretation is correct are the others who look at the arguments posted and decide if they agree or disagree with the thread.

 

[Damage3245]

You did, just because it doesn't directly say "embodies" doesn't mean it doesn't embody the concept of "stillness", because it's directly implied it does embody it because of it effecting The Soul King on an ontological level, and since the Mimihagi is "stillness" itself, it would effect itself on an ontological level, similarly to what it did with the Soul King.

I mean, that scan too says that Mimihagi just controls stillness. It doesn't say that Mimihagi or the Soul King is stillness. The Soul King existing between stillness and andvancement seems to be a result of him controlling them, not embodying them.

 

[Deceived3596]

You don't give a caption below scans because you are giving their interpretation of the evidence. You aren't meant to do that as it only serves to try to guide the opinion of the one evaluating the evidence.

Unless you can provide a rule which states i'm not allowed to explain my interpretation of the scans in more depth then i don't care about this statement, unless you can provide a counter interpretation, concede the point.

As for my issues with the 'ontological' statements. That is because once again you giving interpretations of things not stated in the scans, and without this form of interpretation you can't judge these statements of governing stagnation to be applicable for the level of manipulating a concept or being an abstract existence.

Provide counter interpretations of valid quality, just because they're my interpretations doesn't mean they aren't supported or consistent. This isn't how logic works Everything, if we can logically deduce implications behind statements, then we can assert those statements might be in reference towards those deduced implications.

Genuinely curious, what would you consider an abstraction, which is a universal constant and defines the reality it governs Everything?, because from reading on the Conceptual Manipulation page, it falls exactly under Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2).

Unless you believe this wouldn't qualify for CM, and if so, why doesn't it when the evidence provided clearly shows such?

As for anyone saying I haven't debunked anything or my evaluation I inaccurate, that is solely your opinions and not that of me or the others evaluating this CRT.

Yeah we know it's your opinion, we're saying your opinion is wrong given the evidence.

 

[Arcker123]

The Soul King existing between stillness and andvancement seems to be a result of him controlling them, not embodying them.

This is ridiculous

The scan is referring to the nature of Reio's being now that he is without Stillness or Progression. The scan says nothing about his control of it.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arcker123; you're right, I misread the scan regarding the bit for the Soul King.

But my point remains regarding Mimihagi; that scan still just says that the right arm controls "stillness".

 

[Deceived3596]

Damage.... you're misunderstanding the implication in the scan.

Because of that "stillness" it's causing Soul King's existence to "stay still" (with Pernida indirectly countering this stillness with progression), ontological is just a fancy term to denote the nature of one's being/existence, if you're effecting one's existence/nature of being, then you're innately affecting them on an ontological level. This is what the Mimihagi is doing.

The Mimihagi would be innately affected by this "stillness" on an ontological level because it's "stillness" itself, it governs and controls the concept because it's the concept. The scans provided imply such. I don't understand how you're misunderstanding this tbh.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't understand how you're misunderstanding this tbh.

Sorry, but have you ever heard of someone having a different interpretation to you on something?

It's actually really easy to understand why two people would look at the same bit of text and come to different conclusions on it.

 

[Deceived3596]

Sorry, but have you ever heard of someone having a different interpretation to you on something?

It's actually really easy to understand why two people would look at the same bit of text and come to different conclusions on it.

I know what different interpretations are Damage, don't be condescending with me. When i'm saying "i don't understand how you're misunderstanding this tbh" it's in relation with the interpretations themselves, i'm saying that my interpretations is more supported, to the point of being being blatant, that it would baffle me that someone would disagree with it given the evidence.

You can have your interpretation, i'm just saying your interpretation is less supported compared to mine.

 

[Damage3245]

I know what different interpretations are Damage, don't be condescending with me. When i'm saying "i don't understand how you're misunderstanding this tbh" it's in relation with the interpretations themselves, i'm saying that my interpretations is more supported, to the point of being blatant, that it would baffle me that someone would disagree with it given the evidence.

You can have your interpretation, i'm just saying your interpretation is less supported compared to mine.

I apologize for the condescending post, but I feel like I'm being treated the same way when I have Arcker123 saying "This is ridiculous" and you saying "I don't understand how you're misunderstanding this tbh." If you think I'm wrong then just explain where you think I'm wrong and things will be fine between us. There is no need to post about how baffling it is or how confused you are by someone else's posts.

Something that may be completely obvious to you may not be obvious to others. I've ran into that problem countless times myself.

 

[Deceived3596]

I apologize for the condescending post, but I feel like I'm being treated the same way when I have Arcker123 saying "This is ridiculous" and you saying "I don't understand how you're misunderstanding this tbh." If you think I'm wrong then just explain where you think I'm wrong and things will be fine between us. There is no need to post about how baffling it is or how confused you are by someone else's posts.

I did explain this in the post you quoted, and you just hit me with "people can have different interpretations", which implies you did understand what i'm saying, you just have a different interpretation to it. If you're actually confused or believe i'm not explaining something well enough then please tell me what you're confused about or what i'm not explaining well enough, i don't wanna confuse you. That isn't my intention.

I'm trying to explain everything in as much detail as possible, because these aren't well known terms nor arguments, and i can see people getting confused or misunderstanding things being asserted in the OP.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Agree with everything here, it seems very straightforward to me.

 

[Deceived3596]

Based Milly.

 

[Strife304]

I agree with everything presented.

 

[LordGinSama]

Agreed.


Also if you think that embodying a concept, a fundamental abstract wouldn't qualify then I think you should read the Abstract Existence page again and read it for more than 1 nanosecond. The whole point of abstract existence is self-explanatory, individuals who exist solely as a form of an abstraction. Mimihagi governs over the concept of Stagnation, i.E he's a conceptual abstraction.



With all due respect to say Mimihagi isn't an Abstraction makes zero sense.

 

[AxisPowerRanger]

I agreed with what's presented.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

… I was not expecting this. Agree with the OP.

 

[Duedate8898]

I pretty much echo what Everything agrees and disagrees with. All of the scans about the ontological and embodying a concept don't really say what you're description for most of them are saying and said description feels like a lot of word salad that isn't actually defining the abilities proper. If you could condense the scans a little more and maybe just find some which call Mimihagi the words you're using they'd be good, but until then, big no from me.

Will add, I think conceptual manipulation can stand cause it says mimihagi governs the concept of stillness, but I'm unsure on putting at the 4-D level just cause the story doesn't seem terribly explicit to what extinct Mimihagi or anyone else can use the stillness.

 

[Deceived3596]

All of the scans about the ontological and embodying a concept don't really say what you're description for most of them are saying and said description feels like a lot of word salad that isn't actually defining the abilities proper

I know that they don't exactly say x statements, what i'm arguing is they imply x statements. You have to argue against the implications themselves, saying "it doesn't directly say x, ergo it can't mean x" isn't an argument. You aren't addressing or counting anything by saying this, it's a vacuous statement.

If you believe there's another valid interpretation, please provide it. I've been asking everyone who disagrees with this thread to provide other valid interpretations, and no one has yet. It literally has been "it doesn't directly say x, so i can't be x".

If you'd read both the Acausality and Conceptual Manipulation pages you'd see why that the explanations provided aren't "word salads", but rather are descriptions constructed to fall exactly under what's required for those abilities.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not so sure about Mimihagi having "no physical form" at all. Reishi = spiritual particles, meaning it is made out of a form of matter or energy. And Mimihagi can be physically interacted with after all.

The scan provided for Mimihagi having no physical form doesn't have anything in it that suggests it to me.

 

[KazuiK]

I'm not so sure about Mimihagi having "no physical form" at all. Reishi = spiritual particles, meaning it is made out of a form of matter or energy. And Mimihagi can be physically interacted with after all.

The scan provided for Mimihagi having no physical form doesn't have anything in it that suggests it to me.

But why would that be a counterpoint?

 

[Arcker123]

"An indigenous Heteromorphic Cyclopean God"

 

[Hellscream]

I just want to ask, why is it so hard to interpret mimihagi, to embody the very concept of "stillness" as it's part of the soul king, yk the being who created the verse, which includes the very concept of life and death. Then you have other beings like gerard, embodying the concept of hope / fear as well.

Every body part of the soul king that was shown is governing a certain concept.

 

[Hellscream]

Anyways, thread is straightforward pretty much agree with everything.

 

[Damage3245]

"An indigenous Heteromorphic Cyclopean God"

Just so we're on the same page, what do you think Heteromorphic means?

But why would that be a counterpoint?

A counterpoint to what exactly?

 

[Duedate8898]

I know that they don't exactly say x statements, what i'm arguing is they imply x statements. You have to argue against the implications themselves, saying "it doesn't directly say x, ergo it can't mean x" isn't an argument. You aren't addressing or counting anything by saying this, it's a vacuous statement.

If you believe there's another valid interpretation, please provide it. I've been asking everyone who disagrees with this thread to provide other valid interpretations, and no one has yet. It literally has been "it doesn't directly say x, so i can't be x".

If you'd read both the Acausality and Conceptual Manipulation pages you'd see why that the explanations provided aren't "word salads", but rather are descriptions constructed to fall exactly under what's required for those abilities.

I'm not about to get into the semantics of what is and isn't an argument with you, cause it's going to go nowhere.

What I will say is this: I don't see the implications you're leaping at as good enough evidence to go with what you're proposing in this thread.

Yhwach directly calls out Mimihagi as an arm of reishi, which we know to be spiritual matter. And while I know we accept spiritual matter to be composed of information, we don't accept Reishi to be abstract or conceptual in nature and the description we're giving for mimhagi doesn't point towards his reishi being particulaly unique except that its black maybe, but there are other things which are black and made of reishi so nothing there. And I know that scan of what is Reio without his arms divines him as something weird, but one, no one really seems to know what Reio is in the first place and the clues provided by the scan itself are nowhere near as conclusive enough to actually give a clear enough answer for us to put it on profiles. Two, plenty of characters interact with either Reio, Yhwach, Perinada, Gerard and Mimhagi combined that type 1 or 2 Abstract Existence by the showings of the manga isn't supported for anyone. No one is ever stated to have directly interact with concepts to touch any of them, none of them are ever stated to embody concepts, there is just nothing that the manga gives to support the arguments you're attempting. And the scans you've provided from CFYOW don't do so either.

To then go back into my issue with your word usage with the scans themselves, the big problem is that all those words are just your personal conclusion on what's going on, not stuff the text is explicitly stating or even roundaboutly stating. They're just what you believe is the implications being made, and the scans themselves don't give strong enough support that I'd agree with the conclusions your making, so your scans read as mostly nonsense and confusing to me.

That's my piece to say on this.

Edit: I said Acauasality where I meant to say Abstract Existence. That's my bad.

 

[Damage3245]

For now, my vote on this will be the same as Everything12 and Duedate8898. Heading offline for tonight.

 

[Deceived3596]

@Duedate8898 I'll address your argument shortly because i heavily disagree with a multitude of things you've asserted.

 

[KazuiK]

A counterpoint to what exactly?

I may be interpreting it wrong, but the way you said it implied that this would be a counterpoint to incorporiety

 

[Duedate8898]

I just want to ask, why is it so hard to interpret mimihagi, to embody the very concept of "stillness" as it's part of the soul king, yk the being who created the verse, which includes the very concept of life and death. Then you have other beings like gerard, embodying the concept of hope / fear as well.

Every body part of the soul king that was shown is governing a certain concept.

Cause it says Mimihagi controls/governs stillness. Not that Mimihagi embodies it. As far as the provided scans have stated, and being that not only does the death of Mimihagi and Perinada not in some form or shape stop either of those ideas from existing or no longer happening within the story, I don't see us having good support for that idea.

I won't disagree with each part of the soul king control some idea, since they all do to some extinct. I just don't agree with saying each part embodies that idea.

I may be interpreting it wrong, but the way you said it implied that this would be a counterpoint to incorporiety

People touch Mimihagi and the story doesn't really paint him as incorporeal throughout. That and he's called Reishi, which isn't incorporeal in Bleach.