MHA AP and Durability Upgrades

[Kingofwolves999]

This might just be me, but very few characters in MHA are "explosion proof", as in will show zero reaction to being hit by an explosion. Only the likes of Shigaraki or All Might have shown minimal reaction to being hit by Bakugo's explosions.

So anytime someone gets launched by one of Bakugo’s explosions, it’s doing zero damage to them but pushing them back? Why would people be impressed with Bakugo’s power at all then? His strength is one of his defining characteristics, specifically with his quirk, so if all his showings against people are “he’s not actually hurting them and is hitting them with attacks far weaker than their durability despite having no reason to, and they’re just reacting to the heat” than that is a narrative dissonance.

Either he’s holding back all the time and has never hurt anyone at all other than Deku at the end of their fight, and all of his feats can only be attributed to heat, or his explosions are just consistent in strength regardless of size.

At this point we’re arguing that Bakugo is physically stronger than his own quirk.

He wasn't harmed since he blocked the blast. He never said it was impossible. His dialogue would just imply he'd most likely lose either because Bakugo is a better fighter. Has the superior quirk or can range spam him easily, all of the above are true.

That only vindicates my argument as Bondo was covered in burns and smoking afterwards.

His first attack burned Deku, subsequent attacks either missed or didn't do visible damage besides making Deku cough once. His attack that harmed 8% Deku didn't even draw a reaction from Deku and pretty much just launched him away before he regained his footing and came back like nothing happened.

If Bakugo’s attacks are so weak they can’t harm him, there is no reasons he should believe he can’t beat him in close quarters. He should have had no reason to block his attacks at all if they’re as weak as you’re claiming, and Bakugo’s strength is even the main reason class 1-B fears him.

So Bondo took no damage as well? Is the claim here that Bakugo just can’t hurt anyone with his quirk?

“Making Deku cough once.” So that attack didn’t hurt Deku at all? So Bakugo’s punches are stronger than his own quirk? Also Deku ignoring pain means nothing, he does that all the time and has one of the most impressive pain tolerances in the verse.

I'd like to note that most of Bakugo's small explosions didn't do much to Deku at 5-8%, only being able to burn him slightly.

He barely hit Deku with explosions at all, because Deku was worried and dodged anytime he tried to. When he does get hit with explosions, he’s launched back several meters.



Essentially, we’re proposing that Bakugo be rated:

High 8-C physically, 9-A up to High 8-C with his strongest attacks.

So everyone in the verse that doesn’t scale to 5% Deku gets one shot by Ojiro, and Bakugo should have all his vs battles removed since he can’t use his quirk without hurting himself.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Here’s scans Of clone shiggy taking the Hits he was staggered but he’s not taking absurd damage for a sec
He also has already Recovered from the blow by the next page

 

[Damage3245]

So anytime someone gets launched by one of Bakugo’s explosions, it’s doing zero damage to them but pushing them back? Why would people be impressed with Bakugo’s power at all then? His strength is one of his defining characteristics, specifically with his quirk, so if all his showings against people are “he’s not actually hurting them and is hitting them with attacks far weaker than their durability despite having no reason to, and they’re just reacting to the heat” than that is a narrative dissonance.

I don't know what you mean by this really.

I'm just saying that characters in MHA will almost always show some kind reaction to being hit by an explosion, even if it doesn't seriously damage them.

Either he’s holding back all the time and has never hurt anyone at all other than Deku at the end of their fight, and all of his feats can only be attributed to heat, or his explosions are just consistent in strength regardless of size.

This is also one of those things that seem contradictory to me. We the value of his explosions to be a certain rating because of how big they are. But now we're saying size doesn't factor into it?

Here’s scans Of clone shiggy taking the Hits he was staggered but he’s not taking absurd damage for a sec

Shiggy isn't hit by him until he gets grabbed.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

@Kingofwolves999 The heat of those explosions are very much a thing and it isn't as though Bakugou can't make larger attacks than what he was using.

Don't put words in my mouth. I quite clearly said he was covered in burns afterwards.

An explosion approaching the size of ground beta buildings made him cough. Bakugou's fists quite clearly pack more force than a 9A explosion.

As it stands we're very inconsistent about Bakugou's explosions. On one hand we use the size for Uraraka and Tokoyami's durability then turn right around and say his 9A explosions are 8C or higher then also go on to calc his massive explosions using size then say his basic attacks are just as strong. Unless you want High 8C Uraraka and Tokoyami who are rivalling 5% Deku in durability we need to be consistent about what we're doing and actually use what the story is implying.

King you're also acting as though Bakugou couldn't produce more force with his punches than with explosion as if he can't make tiny blasts with little force. The simple fact is this even if you argue his explosions are consistent you're still arguing his physical blows rival his maximum explosions in power based on his second fight with Deku.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Shiggy isn't hit by him until he gets grabbed.

Oh my mistake then I thought he got nicked by Re Destro instead of a narrow dodge because I was kind of just speed skimming

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Oh my mistake then I thought he got nicked by Re Destro instead of a narrow dodge because I was kind of just speed skimming

Although if that is the case why do we cite shiggy taking a shot from likely 1% Re Destro as Justification for High 8-C durability for him.
If he truly never got hit notably shouldn’t we be using Shigaraki surviving a stress bomb as supporting evidence for it.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

@Kingofwolves999 The heat of those explosions are very much a thing and it isn't as though Bakugou can't make larger attacks than what he was using.

Don't put words in my mouth. I quite clearly said he was covered in burns afterwards.

An explosion approaching the size of ground beta buildings made him cough. Bakugou's fists quite clearly pack more force than a 9A explosion.

Ok. So we remove all his matches recorded, update his profile to show “9-A up to X” for all his keys and have the rest of the verse recorded as over 15x weaker than Ojiro if they don’t scale at least to 5%. Cause that’s the only way scaling would make sense in this case.

In fact, why are we even entertaining the statement that he is comparable to 30% Deku at this rate. Clearly Bakugo is just too weak normally to even compare since he uses smaller explosions all the time and has to push himself for bigger ones.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Ok. So we remove all his matches recorded, update his profile to show “9-A up to X” for all his keys and have the rest of the verse recorded as over 15x weaker than Ojiro if they don’t scale at least to 5%. Cause that’s the only way scaling would make sense in this case.

In fact, why are we even entertaining the statement that he is comparable to 30% Deku at this rate. Clearly Bakugo is just too weak normally to even compare since he uses smaller explosions all the time and has to push himself for bigger ones.

Why would we remove his matches? Most of the students scale to the villain bots which according to Therefir are way into 8C. Even without that many other characters can still scale like Todoroki scales to 5% which affects Iida. Kirishima still scales to Bakugou's higher levels as he can actually harm him and tear through the Zero Point bot's armor. Please list one character who'd be 15x weaker than Ojiro and it'd actually matter?

I never even supported Bakugou scaling to 30% but there's nothing that contradicts it. Bakugou tends to use compressed shots which takes the whole size argument out it seems. Power isn't just from blunt force btw. Todoroki was a character who'd never even used blunt force in a fight before Deku and he was regularly regarded as strong. Just because Bakugou is putting out 9A force doesn't make him weak especially since his explosion still pack heat.

 

[Therefir]

It's quite obvious that Bakugo's explosions are as big as the plot needs them to be and that he can hurt characters of his level without the bigger ones.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

It's quite obvious that Bakugo's explosions are as big as the plot needs them to be and that he can hurt characters of his level without the bigger ones.

Well yes clearly but if we're gonna use the size of his blasts to determine the strength we can't just cherry pick what suits our narrative. We also do blatantly see him harm characters with the heat rather than force like the aforementioned Bondo and Deku.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Well yes clearly but if we're gonna use the size of his blasts to determine the strength we can't just cherry pick what suits our narrative. We also do blatantly see him harm characters with the heat rather than force like the aforementioned Bondo and Deku.

If it is agreed upon that it’s mainly just heat doing damage with smaller blasts will we regard him as ignoring conventional Durability.
Like Endeavor

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Why would we remove his matches? Most of the students scale to the villain bots which according to Therefir are way into 8C. Even without that many other characters can still scale like Todoroki scales to 5% which affects Iida. Kirishima still scales to Bakugou's higher levels as he can actually harm him and tear through the Zero Point bot's armor. Please list one character who'd be 15x weaker than Ojiro and it'd actually matter?

I never even supported Bakugou scaling to 30% but there's nothing that contradicts it. Bakugou tends to use compressed shots which takes the whole size argument out it seems. Power isn't just from blunt force btw. Todoroki was a character who'd never even used blunt force in a fight before Deku and he was regularly regarded as strong. Just because Bakugou is putting out 9A force doesn't make him weak especially since his explosion still pack heat.

Isn’t that villain bot calc being challenged due to the nature of the mines? The bots might not even be 8-C.

So we should put Bakugo negates durability via heat is what you’re saying.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

If it is agreed upon that it’s mainly just heat doing damage with smaller blasts will we regard him as ignoring conventional Durability.
Like Endeavor

Yes that's what I've been trying to say this whole time.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Isn’t that villain bot calc being challenged due to the nature of the mines? The bots might not even be 8-C.

So we should put Bakugo negates durability via heat is what you’re saying.

Even if they aren't 8C characters like Aoyama upscale quite a bit due to one shotting the bots.

Yes. I'm sorry I failed to convey that.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Yes that's what I've been trying to say this whole time.

Honestly that’s a borderline upgrade
Negging Dura for those without Heat resistance>Blunt Force
And it’s not really contradicting anything if that is the case
I agree to that then

 

[Therefir]

Doesn't base Deku have his own feats?

Base Deku is able to slam Bakugo hard enough to hurt him in their first fight, and less than three months later, Aizawa states that Bakugo's body has barely got a bit stronger since then, while showing that his Quirk hasn't got any stronger at all.

So this feat should be used to support Deku's 8-C+ rating.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Base Deku is able to slam Bakugo hard enough to hurt him in their first fight, and less than three months later, Aizawa states that Bakugo's body barely got a bit stronger since then, while showing that his Quirk haven't got any stronger at all.

So this feat should be used to support Deku's 8-C+ rating.

That's fair although Deku would downscale a bit since Bakugou could get up without too much issue.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Know what, I agree.

A feat for Bakugo that people overlook is him causing All Might pain with his explosions, so if he negates durability with heat that explains that.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Know what, I agree.

A feat for Bakugo that people overlook is him causing All Might pain with his explosions, so if he negates durability with heat that explains that.

True

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Great. Does anyone disagree with what I've proposed?

 

[Damage3245]

Regarding this calculation, who would scale to it, and for what reasons? Because just because Bakugo can create an explosion this powerful, doesn't mean accepting all of his explosions in the early series are this powerful.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Regarding this calculation, who would scale to it, and for what reasons? Because just because Bakugo can create an explosion this powerful, doesn't mean accepting all of his explosions in the early series are this powerful.

I don't think anyone would. It looks like a max power attack so I'd imagine it'd just be supporting evidence for Bakugou's tier.

Also Bakugou's durability fully scales to his max power attacks right?

 

[Therefir]

Regarding this calculation, who would scale to it, and for what reasons? Because just because Bakugo can create an explosion this powerful, doesn't mean accepting all of his explosions in the early series are this powerful.

No one really, except Bakugo's own durability.

Though I still have some problems with the way this explosion was measured.

 

[Therefir]

Also Bakugou's durability fully scales to his max power attacks right?

He certainly should, he has other feats supporting he is able to take hits on the level of his max power explosions.

 

[Steve_Rogers1]

I don't think anyone would. It looks like a max power attack so I'd imagine it'd just be supporting evidence for Bakugou's tier.

Also Bakugou's durability fully scales to his max power attacks right?

It should. Bakugo isn't affected by the recoil of using his gauntlets. He only starts straining when he forces himself to produce explosions on that level with just the sweat from his hands.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Right got it. So I think this CRT is done. Shall we edit the pages?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

No one really, except Bakugo's own durability.

Though I still have some problems with the way this explosion was measured.

Wait a second if it is scaling to his Dura doesn’t it indirectly scale to those who can harm him?

 

[Steve_Rogers1]

Wait a second if it is scaling to his Dura doesn’t it indirectly scale to those who can harm him?

Sure, but wouldn't that only apply to 5%/8% Deku with his base downscaling?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

@Therefir what would Deku's 8C+ rating be? His 5% divide by 2 or something?

 

[Therefir]

Wait a second if it is scaling to his Dura doesn’t it indirectly scale to those who can harm him?

I don't think that explosion is High 8-C btw, my old 8-C calc using the windows was fine.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Sure, but wouldn't that only apply to 5%/8% Deku with his base downscaling?

Base Deku could also slam Bakugo hard enough to somewhat damage him but yeah only I think Deku is scaling

 

[Damage3245]

Base Deku could also slam Bakugo hard enough to somewhat damage him but yeah only I think Deku is scaling

To be honest Bakugo doesn't seem injured by that move. It's just the impact of being thrown onto the ground stunning him, not base Deku actually harming Bakugo with the throw. Bakugo then gets back up like nothing happened.

I wouldn't scale base Deku to even be remotely comparable to Bakugo's explosions from this.

 

[Therefir]

@Therefir what would Deku's 8C+ rating be? His 5% divide by 2 or something?

No need to assume a difference, just downscale him to 8-C+, the same thing we did with Shiggy when we downscale his durability to Low 7-B+ from a 7-B Deku.

 

[Steve_Rogers1]

Base Deku could also slam Bakugo hard enough to somewhat damage him but yeah only I think Deku is scaling

8-C+ is enough to do some damage to Bakugo since the gaps would only something like 3x.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

No need to assume a difference, just downscale him to 8-C+, the same thing we did with Shiggy when we downscale his durability to Low 7-B+ from a 7-B Deku.

Ok

 

[Therefir]

To be honest Bakugo doesn't seem injured by that move. It's just the impact of being thrown onto the ground stunning him, not base Deku actually harming Bakugo with the throw. Bakugo then gets back up like nothing happened.

Bakugo is visibly suffering from some pain on that first panel.

 

[Earthyboy]

Bakugo is visibly suffering from some pain on that first panel.

So now we're scaling Base Deku to High 8-C? This doesn't make sense.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I wanted to ask if Kaminari should have dura neg since Killua does.

 

[Earthyboy]

Base Deku is able to slam Bakugo hard enough to hurt him in their first fight, and less than three months later, Aizawa states that Bakugo's body has barely got a bit stronger since then, while showing that his Quirk hasn't got any stronger at all.

So this feat should be used to support Deku's 8-C+ rating.

Deku actually used Bakugo's own momentum against him and performed a flip. Not to mention Bakugo was caught off guard at that point.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

So now we're scaling Base Deku to High 8-C? This doesn't make sense.

I don’t think so, he doesn’t have to be High 8-C to stagger characters of that tier isn’t the gap in AP between Base Deku and Bakugo’s Dura like 3x at most if Deku is 8-C+ Might be wrong here though.