MG: Another Info type 2 removal

[Robo432343]

someone please close ts

 

[Dereck03]

Given the overall disagreement from our regular users and staff no clear nor concise counterargument I'll just close this thread.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Doesn't it still need 48hrs grace period upon being posted

 

[Huesito88]

Given the overall disagreement from our regular users and staff no clear nor concise counterargument I'll just close this thread.

Can you update the OP with the votes before you do that?

 

[Dereck03]

Doesn't it still need 48hrs grace period upon being posted

We don't have any rule stating that you have to wait 24 or 48 hours to close a rejected thread; we simply deduce that a thread that has received many votes against can be closed if there are many staff against it and there is no clear and concise counterargument against the rejection. In this case, the opposition seems to have ignored previous threads and discussions about the upgrade and is unaware of what would be considered information and the like, so yes, we can pretty much close it now. However, I will wait a little while to see what happens.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I'd like to request this to not be closed for now.

I've been discussing some stuff with Agnaa and FinePoint, and I've gotten their answer on the info type 2 for Spirits (both were in disagreements with info type 2), however, Agnaa said he'd answer the question regarding land of traces later today since he's busy right now, and I'd prefer making a single post for everything instead of different ones for both.

That's all. If the thread is still closed by the time I get the answer however, I'd ask a staff to open it again.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Anyways these are the answers I got from FinePoint and Agnaa. Note that some details were added after the first question because I was asking questions in realtime from my previous post on scans and onwards. So there are some hourly time difference between some of the replies.

Regarding Spirits

Spoiler: Agnaa

Me:
Hello hello
Using Agnaa Service

Question:

This is clear but there are a lot of people talking about it, so some sort of confirmation would be helpful.

There are a type of beings (spirits) that are based on rumors/legends/belief of people.

Basically if people believe there's a dragon living inside some cave, a spirit will come to life dependent on that belief. If people think it has a certain power, said spirits will have that power.

And if people forget that legend/rumor or lose said belief, the spirit in question vanishes.

But we have no proof that said spirits or legends/rumors/belief define reality (or an aspect of it). The legends/rumors/belief themselves only define the person/group of them, nothing else.

Is this info type 1 (knowledge) or type 2 (fundamental)?

Agnaa:
Neither
It's simply reality adjusting itself, to a limited extent, in response to some personal information.

Me:
Hmm, alright

And, the supporters gave me some more scans after I wrote that msg, and it seems the rumors also give birth to a "Spirit world" of sorts where spirits reside. Basically a confined space born from the belief that "there's a spirit world and spirits live in it" which changes in real time based on the rumors surrounding it (like if someone were to believe that it has NEP, it will have it, or etc.)

Would that change anything about it being info (type 1 or 2) or not?

Agnaa:
If you interrogate what you mean by “it”, I think you’ll get why the answer is no.

Me:
I do get it, but it seems the supporters don't, so I need some words from a neutral staff (other than the supporting staff of the verse itself)

Agnaa:
Does the fact that supernatural things respond to the beliefs of society about the supernatural, mean that:
1. Society’s beliefs are info type 1/2? No, their beliefs don’t do anything special in regard to other topics. And they’re liable to change, they’re not some abstract notion of knowledge itself where alterations to it prevent knowledge from being gained in other ways.
2. Supernatural things are information? No, they just respond to it. A character growing muscles if other characters believe they’re strong does not mean the substance of their muscles is information.

Skip some messages unrelated to Spirits (they're about Land of Traces instead):

Agnaa:
From the little bit you told me, it sounded like aberrations from Monogatari, which never got any ability like that.

Spoiler: FinePoint

Me:
Good morning Fine

Question:

This is clear but there are a lot of people talking about it, so some sort of confirmation would be helpful.

There are a type of beings (spirits) that are based on rumors/legends/belief of people.

Basically if people believe there's a dragon living inside some cave, a spirit will come to life dependent on that belief. If people think it has a certain power, said spirits will have that power.

And if people forget that legend/rumor or lose said belief, the spirit in question vanishes.

But we have no proof that said spirits or legends/rumors/belief define reality (or an aspect of it). The legends/rumors/belief themselves only define the person/group of them, nothing else.

Is this info type 1 (knowledge) or type 2 (fundamental)?

Or would you prefer if I ask it on your msg wall?

Fine: Sounds like it may just be Subjective Reality.

Me: Hmm. For everyone?

Fine: For whatever phenomenon is causing this.

Me: Basically anyone that can think and believe in something. So all life as sentient as humans or more

Fine: Then I guess yeah all the humans in that universe.

Me:
Anyways
I got some more context from other people after I wrote that question

And it seems that that belief/rumor itself created even the spirit world (the belief that there is a spirit realm where spirits reside)

Would that change anything?

Fine: The rumor itself might be Info Type 2 on a technicality but as an ability I'd probably list it as Subjective Reality rather than Type 2 Info Manipulation.

Me: And what about Spirits that are based on/are the embodiment of said rumor?

Fine:乁⁠(⁠ ⁠•⁠_⁠•⁠ ⁠)⁠ㄏ

So yeah, based on that, given Fine's answer is based on "the rumor itself (not the spirit) be info type 2" and Agnaa's blatant No with his reasoning, I think we need to call more staff (that don't support the verse itself) for this. Preferably DT, Agnaa, Glass and Bambu.

As for Land of Traces, FinePoint ignored it (for now or forever) and I don't want to bump it, while Agnaa told me @Wesker018 is showering him with scans for a larger thing so so he'd have to decline mine to prevent answering selective parts.

Note: Everything in "Me:" quotes is based on my interpretation of what the supporters sent me, and may be wrong. But I believe the overall summary is pretty much the same. Regardless, if something was missed, reply to my post and I'll add that to my questions to both staff.

 

[Vietthai96]

Ngl here, call them here to debate so MGK supporters can provide scan, context and reasoning.

@Agnaa @FinePoint

Sorry for the ping, but i think it is better discussing in this thread

 

[Agnaa]

Ngl here, call them here to debate so MGK supporters can provide scan, context and reasoning.

@Agnaa @FinePoint

Sorry for the ping, but i think it is better discussing in this thread

I responded to briefly answer a few short questions. Not to get in a protracted multi-dozen scan discussion for a verse I don't care about.

I will not be contributing any further.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Ngl here, call them here to debate so MGK supporters can provide scan, context and reasoning.

@Agnaa @FinePoint

Sorry for the ping, but i think it is better discussing in this thread

Can you ping @Mr. Bambu and @DontTalkDT as well?

 

[Vietthai96]

Can you ping @Mr. Bambu and @DontTalkDT as well?

@Mr. Bambu @DontTalkDT

Sorry for the ping, i was requested to ping you guys

 

[Reiner04]

I disagree with this thread

Idk how many times I said this in the past: as long as information is a fundamental element that makes up something, be it an object, person, or even a realm, it qualifies as Information Type 2. Spirits and their realm were literally made by rumors, stories that are equivalent to information; altering these things literally will alter the corresponding spirit. If they go against these rumors, they literally disappear. All these feats support the fact that this information is fundamental. It being knowledge information or memory information or whatever doesn't matter; Type 1 and 2 differentiate themselves based on feats. Type 1 have no impact on anything rather than simply being knowledges or memories; Type 2, the information is fundamental and define thing itself

This sums up my opinion on the thread as well, Gotta disagree with the thread.

 

[Dog3352]

"the rumor itself (not the spirit) be info type 2"

Just to clarify, the source of the spirits is made from the rumors/legends/stories themselves, so this makes the spirit itself Info2.

Edit: I disagree with the topic. DT had already said before that even a stone could be Info2 if it proved that the entire existence of the stone is made up of (abstract) information, so I don't see how spirits can't be Info2, having abstract information that constitutes their existence/source.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Just to clarify, the source of the spirits is made from the rumors/legends/stories themselves, so this makes the spirit itself Info2.

Edit: I disagree with the topic. DT had already said before that even a stone could be Info2 if it proved that the entire existence of the stone is made up of (abstract) information, so I don't see how spirits can't be Info2, having abstract information that constitutes their existence/source.

Actually their bodies too. When Divine dogs just started eating the bodies that itself was devouring the rumours.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

this is simply a weakness, not an anti-feat

Remembering prove they are not real and are dependent on people memory to exist.

as i have said, knowledge or memory isn't matter; what matter is it's information or not, and what type will depend on how said information works.

If it's memory then it's a mental information and can't be equated with programing the info of reality.

As we can see, as long as information is acting in a fashion that is equally fundamental, then it is Info 2. Compare this to the Spirit in question; the fact that these rumors, lores, and stories—or, if I go by your language, knowledge—serve as fundamental elements that directly dictate the Spirit's existence means it already satisfies the requirement for Type 2. This "knowledge" being stories spread from people is irrelevant; it is fundamental to the Spirit's existence, which is what matters.

Information is vague term by itself and in this verse it's refering to MEMORY/Knowledge.



Like it or not it mean any Info type 1 user could interact MG "info type 2". I'm fine with unconventional fundamental information that could be manipulated through info type 1.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Are we making every verse with memory/knowledge as a fundamental aspect Info type 2 ?

Like aberrations from Monogatari

Aberrations (also known as apparitions, oddities, yokai, and kaii) are supernatural beings within Monogatari. They exist because humans exist and behave as humans expect them to. If humanity's beliefs on them were to change, their forms would change too. If an aberration acts against its nature The Darkness will manifest and attempt to erase that aberration and any who witnessed it.

Wait a minute, do they even refer to the lore as "information" ?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Are we making every verse with memory/knowledge as a fundamental aspect Info type 2 ?

no?
This is a unique case-by-case scenario
Because even in the real world, having different perceptions on concepts doesn't change them; yet, in this fiction, it does due to the world's mechanism, where every person/demon/being has an influence on how spirits work and their mechanisms.

Are you by any chance ESL?

 

[ROZAN-U]

Remembering prove they are not real and are dependent on people memory to exist.

They are not dependent on memory, it's the stories/narrative spread among people.

If it's memory then it's a mental information and can't be equated with programing the info of reality.

If it was just mental information then spirits would be thing exising only in mind, not in reality. This has been said so many times above and you seem to ignore it everytime.
Mental information has no bearing to reality yet spirit exists in reality. So it's not type 1 info.

Are we making every verse with memory/knowledge as a fundamental aspect Info type 2 ?

If that info can shape something at fundamental level then surely yeah.

Wait a minute, do they even refer to the lore as "information" ?

That's not needed.

Like it or not it mean any Info type 1 user could interact MG "info type 2"

They can't, that's what being fundamental info is.

Also why do you keep saying spirit are memories where it isn't mentioned like that anywhere?
They are not stored in anyone mind.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

That's not needed

So, they're so called information is not even information. Just a collection of beliefs, emotions, memory/knowledge. And this support it

Information Manipulation (Types 1 & 2. <Teles> engraves knowledge directly into the target's head. Can interact with and destroy Spirits.

This got accepted only because of the verse staff supporters.

 

[Vietthai96]

I don't think they use Teles as reason for Info 2, it is for Info 1. Just because types 1 & 2 got lumped together doesn't mean the entire justification is used for both types

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

OP not even bothered to hide their trolling even after 3 pages

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Disagrew with the thread FRA so far

 

[Shar122]

Yeah.. I disagree FRA

 

[ThienDe01]

Wait a minute, do they even refer to the lore as "information" ?

No, legends are stories that shape spirits. What we want to demonstrate is that type 2 information is "rumors" when spirits are shaped by rumors.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I don't think they use Teles as reason for Info 2, it is for Info 1. Just because types 1 & 2 got lumped together doesn't mean the entire justification is used for both types

Yeah Teles isn't Information type 2. Dude is mixing up both.

 

[Wesker018]

while Agnaa told me @Wesker018 is showering him with scans for a larger thing so so he'd have to decline mine to prevent answering selective parts.

i told him about land of traces and he told me that's too much information for him to wade into, so i didnt get answer for that

Regarding the spirits thing, it looks like you didn’t present the arguments to him very well, at least based on the screenshot he sent me.

However he said he won't evaluate further evidence, so we can’t count on him for this.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Let's not act as if this the first time MG hax is getting downgraded.


Let's make it simple and correct me in case I'm wrong:

1)Do they use the term information for lore ?
No

2) Is the spirit's lore knowledge ?
Yes, it's shared rumors and stories, beliefs and emotions. And it's dependent on people remembering them.

3) Could you interact with lore through knowledge manipulation ?
Yes

4) Are spirits and Lore the same ?
No, spirits themselves and their sources are not the lore

5) Are traces records of the past ?
Yes

6) Could you recreate objects using traces ?
Yes

7) Does the destruction of traces erase the past ?
No



Seems pretty clear that these "information" are just knowledge.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

1)Do they use the term information for lore ?
No

The word 'information' is not necessary to get info 2 something equivalent to would also be enough to qualify, for here that would be legend and rumors as there can't be any legend/rumors without any kind of info. And spirits are made of it. Something that info 1 can't do it.

When I asked Ultima before, he said same thing about 'information' word isn't has to be a necessary for something to qualify. We also use different terms for conceptual manipulation to qualify other than the only concept word.

As for the other things plenty of people already explained that.

Count me as disagree with the thread.

 

[Wesker018]

5) Are traces records of the past ?
Yes

6) Could you recreate objects using traces ?
Yes

7) Does the destruction of traces erase the past ?
No

i will only answer traces related stuff:

5) Are traces records of the past ?
no, records and memories have traces too. Traces is data WoG confirm it. And Land of traces is an infinite world made of traces/data.

6) Could you recreate objects using traces ?
Yes

7) Does the destruction of traces erase the past ?
Yes, since, as shown in one of my posts, the God of Traces = the past of everything, and the God of Traces = the traces. Anos destroyed that guy, but we still have the Order of Time (another Order) taking care of it.

“The Book of Traces shows the past exactly as it was,” he said. “It cannot be altered so easily. Even if it were changed, the order of time would return it to what it was originally.”

There is another feat, graham killed Anos’s parents, but then he changed it to abernyu doing it via altering the text in the book of traces and writing something else.

Another one is that by changing the traces of the past, Revalshned made it so anos was always bound to chains, so he couldn't dodge it.

 

[ThienDe01]

1)Do they use the term information for lore ?
No

2) Is the spirit's lore knowledge ?
Yes, it's shared rumors and stories, beliefs and emotions. And it's dependent on people remembering them.

3) Could you interact with lore through knowledge manipulation ?
Yes

6) Could you recreate objects using traces ?
Yes

you said these things right.

4) Are spirits and Lore the same ?
No, spirits themselves and their sources are not the lore

The source of the spirit as I said is rumor and legend/lore.

“Your source is shaped by a rumor or legend. That means that rumor or legend has taken on a kind of power within you that gets converted into your source. If I link your source to Sheila’s, you may be able to send your power to her before it undergoes that conversion, helping her recover to some extent.

“Spirits are formed from rumors and legends. In most cases, spirits are born from widespread rumors or famous legends and are fully developed at birth, but this isn’t the case for half-spirit, half-demon children. The spirit source is influenced by the demon half of their body. A newly created, weak rumor forms their source.”

“This was a lie. He lied about the child of the Great Spirit Reno. There was no child born between Reno and Shin, and Misa’s spirit lore was not the order to destroy the Demon King. The legend of Avos Dilhevia is the lore that formed her source.”

5) Are traces records of the past ?
Yes

No, traces include both records and memories.

Numerous books fell silently from the vast bookshelves that stretched endlessly into the wasteland. They hovered around us and opened midair, pages tearing themselves out one after another and fluttering around like confetti. Those millions and millions of pages were the traces of records and memories of the world.

7) Does the destruction of traces erase the past ?
No

Is this relevant?
We are talking about traces as type 2 information - Information that makes up an object. Whether or not the trace is destroyed does not affect whether the "trace" is type 2 information.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

6) Could you recreate objects using traces ?
Yes

7) Does the destruction of traces erase the past ?
Yes, since, as shown in one of my posts, the God of Traces = the past of everything, and the God of Traces = the traces. Anos destroyed that guy, but we still have the Order of Time (another Order) taking care of it.


There is another feat, graham killed Anos’s parents, but then he changed it to abernyu doing it via altering the text in the book of traces and writing something else.

Another one is that by changing the traces of the past, Revalshned made it so anos was always bound to chains, so he couldn't dodge it.

Could you post scans ?


I didn't know about these, but they're enough for traces to qualify as type 2. Someone need to add those feats in the traces justification.

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

Let's not act as if this the first time MG hax is getting downgraded.


Let's make it simple and correct me in case I'm wrong:

1)Do they use the term information for lore ?
No

Not necessarily. Information is a broad term, it's like saying knowledge, lore, or ideas are not Information Type 1 simply because they are never referred to as information. This contradicts the very idea of your suggestion that they are merely Information Type 1. If they qualify as Information Type 1, they also qualify as Type 2 if they have been shown to govern or define reality or a being’s fundamental existence

2) Is the spirit's lore knowledge ?
Yes, it's shared rumors and stories, beliefs and emotions. And it's dependent on people remembering them.

And these rumors and stories are part of the fundamental existence of a Spirit. I understand what you mean here and I might have agreed with you for Agnaa's reason if the Spirit world were not a thing and WOG didn’t refer to it as being made of data.

3) Could you interact with lore through knowledge manipulation ?
Yes

You can't as they are fundemental, but you can change it indirectly tho

4) Are spirits and Lore the same ?
No, spirits themselves and their sources are not the lore

Yes they are

5) Are traces records of the past ?
Yes

6) Could you recreate objects using traces ?
Yes

7) Does the destruction of traces erase the past ?
No



Seems pretty clear that these "information" are just knowledge.

Well, explained

 

[Wesker018]

Could you post scans ?


Someone need to add those feats in the traces justification.

yes, there are a lot of things missing in that justification, i agree with that lol. That's why i created this:

Traces and why they are info type 2

im still adding things though, but have some interesting stuff already

edit: Gimme a few minutes to gather the scans for the stuff you highlighted.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

you said these things right.

The source of the spirit as I said is rumor and legend/lore.

Your own words

• Immortality & Regeneration (Types 1, 3, 4 & 8 up-to High-godly; A spirit can't die as long as their rumors persist. Even if killed they shall continue to rise again as long as the rumors which form them remain. Spirits will continue to resurrect even if their source is destroyed as long as their lore remains

• Subjective Reality (Separate from a Spirit's existence and magic, their Legend itself has an influence on the world around them bringing to life what is said in the Legend. The Great Mother Spirit Reno isn't the first Spirit, neither did she biologically give birth to all Spirits but still, according to her legend, she is the mother of all Spirits and they view her as such. Because the 7 Elder Demon Emperors and other Demons from the Mythical Era appeared greatly in the Legend of the Demon King of Tyranny, that Legend strongly bound them to Avos Dilhevia's service)

Spirits are physical beings that embody their lore and could be resurrected thanks to it.

No, traces include both records and memories.

Memory and records of the past are the same thing.

Is this relevant?
We are talking about traces as type 2 information - Information that makes up an object. Whether or not the trace is destroyed does not affect whether the "trace" is type 2 information.

Yes

The past of an object should't exist if its trace was destroyed. Or atleast the past could be changed by it.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

The word 'information' is not necessary to get info 2 something equivalent to would also be enough to qualify, for here that would be legend and rumors as there can't be any legend/rumors without any kind of info. And spirits are made of it. Something that info 1 can't do it.

Not necessarily. Information is a broad term, it's like saying knowledge, lore, or ideas are not Information Type 1 simply because they are never referred to as information. This contradicts the very idea of your suggestion that they are merely Information Type 1. If they qualify as Information Type 1, they also qualify as Type 2 if they have been shown to govern or define reality or a being’s fundamental existence

So, I assume the term information was pushed by the verse supporters ?
Even though the verse treat them as memory/knowledge.

Me:
I do get it, but it seems the supporters don't, so I need some words from a neutral staff (other than the supporting staff of the verse itself)

Agnaa:
Does the fact that supernatural things respond to the beliefs of society about the supernatural, mean that:
1. Society’s beliefs are info type 1/2? No, their beliefs don’t do anything special in regard to other topics. And they’re liable to change, they’re not some abstract notion of knowledge itself where alterations to it prevent knowledge from being gained in other ways.
2. Supernatural things are information? No, they just respond to it. A character growing muscles if other characters believe they’re strong does not mean the substance of their muscles is information.

Skip some messages unrelated to Spirits (they're about Land of Traces instead):

Agnaa:
From the little bit you told me, it sounded like aberrations from Monogatari, which never got any ability like that.

Like Agnaa said, that's subjective reality which is something they have.

• Subjective Reality (Separate from a Spirit's existence and magic, their Legend itself has an influence on the world around them bringing to life what is said in the Legend. The Great Mother Spirit Reno isn't the first Spirit, neither did she biologically give birth to all Spirits but still, according to her legend, she is the mother of all Spirits and they view her as such. Because the 7 Elder Demon Emperors and other Demons from the Mythical Era appeared greatly in the Legend of the Demon King of Tyranny, that Legend strongly bound them to Avos Dilhevia's service)

 

[Wesker018]

Could you post scans ?

first this one:
There is another feat, graham killed Anos’s parents, but then he changed it to abernyu doing it via altering the text in the book of traces and writing something else.
Original:

A darkness that blocked all light appeared between them.
“How troubling. I can’t see anything like this,” Graham said.
A fatal squelch could be heard. Graham’s hand had slashed open Luna’s belly.
“Ah...”
Luna fell to her knees and collapsed, keeping her hand over her abdomen protectively.
“The rest is up to you...dear...”
In the next moment, purple lightning shot from the darkness. Gauddigemon pierced through Graham’s heart, with purple lightning rampaged wildly throughout his body. Ceris aimed his strongest destruction magic at Graham’s source.
“Ravia Neold Galvarizen.”
His source was erased under the endless bolts of lightning.
“Well then. See you later,” Graham said cheerily, as though he was heading home after a day out and not currently impaled by a sword, and consequently perished without a trace.
No, he had probably used Gijerica to reincarnate just before he was destroyed. But Ceris ignored that and slowly turned towards Luna on the ground.

After Graham changes:

Even in the darkness, Abernyu’s gaze stayed fixed on Luna.
“Everything in this world will be destroyed equally.”
The moment her Divine Eyes glinted, Luna’s belly was slashed apart by her gaze.
“Ah...”
Luna fell to her knees and collapsed. But even then, she kept her hands on her abdomen to protect her child.
“The rest is up to you...dear...”
Galian’s darkness was cleared by Abernyu’s Divine Eyes. But a black spot remained behind her. Purple shot out of the spot like a lightning bolt, and Gauddigemon stabbed into Abernyu’s heart.
“Veneziara.”
Ceris drew one spherical magic circle, followed by nine spherical magic circles of possibility within Abernyu’s body.
“Veneziara.”
Fierce purple lightning sparked around the Goddess of Destruction’s body. Ceris slammed his strongest destruction magic at her source.
“Ravia Neold Galvarizen.”
A vast number of purple lightning bolts struck her body, erasing her source.
“The god that governs destruction cannot be destroyed. That’s how order works,” Abernyu said.
The bolts of purple lightning swelled and burst from the god’s body like stars, before vanishing without a trace. The purple world faded back to normal, and silence fell upon them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


now this one:
Another one is that by changing the traces of the past, Revalshned made it so anos was always bound to chains, so he couldn't dodge it.

“Traces of destruction—Egil Grone Angdroa,” Revalschned said in a deep voice. Flames of doom appeared from the turret of magic circles. The jet-black flames covered the seven-layered spiral and fired with a deafening boom. The next moment, my limbs were weighed down.“Traces of restriction—Gicherge.”Transparent chains appeared out of nowhere and restrained my limbs. No, I was already chained. My body was already restrained by Gicherge as though the past had been altered. Before I could tear the chains apart, the flames of doom closed in on my body and burned me up. Fire that could destroy the world pushed my source closer to its end, but at the same time, my magic grew and grew.

edit: btw i will add this scans to my imgur thing,

also regarding traces shit, only focus in my posts for now, since im not checking the other guys responses so idk if they are correct. Saying this mainly to avoid confusion

 

[Dog3352]

Three whole pages of pure trolling, this could break some records.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

i told him about land of traces and he told me that's too much information for him to wade into, so i didnt get answer for that

Expected Lmao

Regarding the spirits thing, it looks like you didn’t present the arguments to him very well, at least based on the screenshot he sent me.

I literally quoted everything I told him above, so if you have some additions to add to the question, tell me.
I still have one Agnaa service question voucher left.

Just to clarify, the source of the spirits is made from the rumors/legends/stories themselves, so this makes the spirit itself Info2.

Assuming that even gets accepted as info type 2 to begin with, wouldn't that still mean it's only info type 2 for the source, not the spirit itself?

 

[Wesker018]

I literally quoted everything I told him above, so if you have some additions to add to the question, tell me.
I still have one Agnaa service question voucher left.

yea mb i replied before reading that last post of yours lmao

 

[Dog3352]

Assuming that even gets accepted as info type 2 to begin with, wouldn't that still mean it's only info type 2 for the source, not the spirit itself?

Apparently, the physical body of the Spirit is also formed by beliefs/stories.