Metroid Upgrades

[SomebodyData]

To be straight to the point, I remade a calc (The Leviathan crashing) that essentially scales to all the Metroid wildlife in Prime (here). The result was Planet level, and normally would be an outlier, had it not happened five times. It also includes the Corruption Space Pirates, who obviously aren't stronger than their generals (Who currently scale off of Ridley's 7-A feat). Essentially it would change the verse from even Basic Pre-Legendary Power Suit Samus to 5-B.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I certaintly support this; glad even Samus's most basic suits are getting upgraded.

Edit: wasn't it Continent Level on Leviathan's profile IIRC? Or was the calc redone and came out as Country Level? I strongly support the upgrades either way.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if the calculation has been accepted, you should be free to upgrade the Metroid statistics accordingly.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Dark it was Country level when Xcano redid it. It used to be Continent tho.

@Antvasima, thing is, is that recently I learned he lost it due to the changes in NF. I will have to redo it.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That's too bad then.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Our good friend SomebodyData has performed a calculation placing the value of the impact at around 5-B. This scales to pretty much every Mid-Tier and Low-Tier character in the verse, as well as a few higher-tiered characters. Let's take a look at the calc before discussing scaling, however. Here is the calc.

Also, have a .gif for the wait. Thank you for your patience, all!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Holy Metroid! So we don't even need Samus & Joey to prove that the power bombs are indeed Planet Level. So even Samus's weakest suits are 5-B.

PS would even basic Fusion be upgraded to 5-B since it survived the Power Bomb with minimal damage? I know it was considered a game mechanic in the past due to other suits being only 7-A before hand.

 

[Promestein]

Did they survive that, since I just assumed it killed everything in the impact crater, which would have been repopulated in the coming years

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

@Medeus

I think you're right on both counts, but let's see if the calc is accepted, first. I'll let LordXcano know right now.

@Prom

The Metroids were inside the Leviathan and survived the impact. The impact occurred only a few years (50, iirc) which wouldn't give the creatures much to repopulate. The Metroids are what's important, though.

 

[Promestein]

I'd say the creatures repopulating in such a small timeframe is a smaller assumption than everything in the crater tanked it, given how big of a feat this is.

Metroids scaling is fine, aren't they Planet level anyways

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

@Prom

Hmm, could go either way, I suppose, so I'll concede on that unless Data objects.

What's really neat here is that the weakest variation of Metroids were on the Leviathan. They tanked the impact, Samus could kill them in Metroid 1, you get the picture. This is all for the mid-tiers and low-tiers, you see. Prime Hunters, Kraid, and the like. Also good to have evidence apart from the dubious manga.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well, a "weaker" impact (On Aether) completely scorched entire regions of the planet (Agon Wastes and Temple Grounds, for example). The possibility that the reproduced, especially considering some species are native to only a few regions, unless they have resurrection powers or Ridley's regen, most species shown in the game would be extinct.

But it's not like we have or need pages on the wildlife, so either way it doesn't matter, it's a small and useless argument, so we can go with your interpretation if you want.

EDIT: Hmmm I'm starting to question whether or not it should scale to lower tiers, and considering the background context behind the scaling. @Follow can you meet me in chat.

 

[Antvasima]

Since Howard accepted the calculation blog, I suppose that the results can be applied.

 

[SomebodyData]

Okay, I'll probably start tomorrow or the day after since I have an AP Calculus Test tomorrow

I'm also going to think about the scaling

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, I do see that @Prom does make a good point; it's questionable if the wildlife scales. Though, it's not like they were extict seeing what happened in Prime 2. And while the Metroids are easiliy planet level either way, but @Follow, she was only able to destroy the metroids with Ice Beam; which counts more as durability negation rather than AP. However, @SomebodyData did mention something about the Corrupted Space Pirates scaling from the Leviathans in Prime 3.

So, while I'm unsure if the wildlife scales, the Space Pirates scaling really should allow Kraid and Ridley to scale as well. And of course that would also scale to Samus's weaker suits. Only question left is if this gets accepted is whether or not to de-outlier Fusion Suit surviving the Power Bomb from SA-X. Anyway, I don't think Zero Suit Samus or Chozo Ruins Test scales.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Dark key thing here is that the Metroids which got hit were Tallon Metroids, slightly weaker than normal Metroids and you can kill them with Charge Combos so it scales.

Additionally, the feat does not scale to Kraid (As much as I wish it did), as most of the Pirates at the time had been corrupted by then. And without scaling to wildlife, it doesn't scale to the lower tiers.

So here's a list of scaling (Without wildlife) separated by game.

- Metroid Prime: Tallon Metroids, possibly the mutated bosses, the Leviathan itself (obviously)

- Metroid Prime 2: Ing, Luminoth

- Metroid Prime 3: Corruption Space Pirates, the Leviathan Guardians, the Corrupted Bounty Hunters

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Should the calculation be accepted, who also scales from this?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@SomebodyData Oh yeah, was well aware of the Tallon IV Metroids being weaker than most Metroids, was just commenting on @Follow's Samus destroying Metroids in the first Metroid game. Additionally, if the Tallon IV Metroids are Planet Level, it would probably scale to legendary basic suit Samus iirc, but not quite the Pre-Zero Mission one. As for everything else, I guess that makes sense.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Dino Read the comment above your's, I scaled it to the characters if we don't scale to wildlife.

@Dark the Tallon Metroids have never fought Basic Legendary Samus tho

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Some alright, NVM then. Been a while since I played it, so I don't quite remember everything.

 

[SomebodyData]

Ah I see

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@SD

The comment wasn't there at the time I was replying. My bad....

 

[SomebodyData]

K, I understand.

Any problems with the scaling that you can think of?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Not that I know of....they all seem to make sense......though I may want to check up on Metriod Prime 1 again, just to make sure.

 

[SomebodyData]

K

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Just to make sure we're all on the same page, allow me to reiterate something about the Metroids themselves. We have a page for normal Metroids because they have a lengthy and complex growth cycle; these "vanilla" Metroids appear mainly in the 2-D games, and Samus fights them even in Metroid 1 before the Ruins Test. The Tallon IV variations are exclusive to the Prime Trilogy; they are vanilla Metroids who survived the Leviathan crashing and then, over time, mutated some more.

The vanilla Metroids have 5-B durabilty (and everything else, via powerscaling) because they were on the Leviathan as it crashed. However! I have evidence to show that Kraid and the Hunters scale, for, you see, it takes three Power Bombs to kill a Metroid in Super Metroid, no exploiting weaknesses or anything. This is consistent with the planet-busting Power Bomb statement in the manga. In Zero Mission and Super Metroid, Kraid can tank Power Bombs, and in Metroid Prime: Hunters for the DS, the villainous bounty Hunters in that game can survive them as well, so 5-B Kraid and Hunters.

So, to recap: everything Data has brought up has been accepted. If my logic is not preposterous, may we discuss my suggestions?

 

[SomebodyData]

Uh, in Zero Mission and Super Metroid you're not supposed to have power bombs at that point, so that scaling would be only through sequence breaking which would be heavily non-canon. (Though I have an idea on how to get Kraid and even Pre-Legendary Varia Suit Samus an upgrade, that would be a thread for another day)

Were power bombs in Metroid Prime Hunters? The wiki says they weren't.

Anyways, for the meantime, I'll adjust the characters that we've all agreed on for now.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Never mind about the Power Bombs, then. I'm not sure how to treat the sequence breaking, and I figured we could use the reasoning of Samus having them in the previous (in the chronological sense) games for Metroid Prime: Hunters, but perhaps that would not be wise. Is there any reason we cannot simply straightforwardly scale the Hunters to Samus to make them 5-B?

 

[SomebodyData]

Yeah, normally I would have scaled them to Samus, but in a few threads prior to this one, me and another person concluded that it would be an outlier for all of them except Sylux considering that most of their individual weapons were described to be around Tier 8-7. (It was reaaaaally consistent in the Tier 8 - 7 range.)

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Wouldn't hurt to have a "Possibly 5-B" rating added to their preexisting tiers, but I digress. Have the necessary changes been made yet?

 

[SomebodyData]

Eh, outliers don't get considered in their profiles, (If you can get a 5-B feat for them, or another time they fought 5-B characters, then it may no longer be an outlier for them)

Working on it (Adding some extra content to the pages as well)

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Okey dokey, once that's done we can get back to talkin' 'bout excellent Metroid romhacks, if you like, Data! I'll probably need to start another thread on your wall, though, due to the length of the other one.

 

[SomebodyData]

Ye, for the most part this thread seems concluded anyways, so I'ma close it.