Okay, I see where you're coming from here. But there's a pretty big difference between fighting Ridley and scaling off it against defeating Ridley with the Power Suit.
Not at all, if there's a big difference why do we do it? How do we quantify it? If you're to believed, our whole scaling is ****** as is.
The idea behind the scaling is just Power Suit Samus fought Ridley, hence the same tier. Varia Suit Samus being baseline 6-B, beat Ridley in ZM and the manga, and having his Plasma Breath calced at 6-C just meant he remained at 6-C. It wasn't supposed to signify Power Suit Samus > Ridley.
But did she? If we take the manga like you're insinuating, she did **** all, she got ragdolled. If we take the games, see my entire argument.
No matter how you slice it, it's ****** and wrong, need to be changed, there is no comparability if we go your way as they'd never have actually interacted in a way to scale properly.
ANd his Plasma breath is very clearly not 6-C anymore so the basis of "it's just a bit under" doesn't hold up.
Like I told you before, in ZM Ridley lost to Varia Suit Samus. After ZM, Ridley consistently fought against a Full-Powered / Nearly Full-Powered Legendary Gravity Suit Samus. There is a very clear gap in tiering there.
And like I've told you before, there's clearly a odd one out here. You just said it yourself "Ridley has consistently fought against ----", in what world wouldn't we take his consistent showings over a single one off? I know you're arguing that the other suits for some increase power output by entire ******* magnitudes, but I'm clearly arguing against that here am I not? So no, I'd argue there isn't a very clear gap.
...Because she can damage people who can damage her? Power scaling, again, seems to be thrown completely out the window.
Based on? What? The video games? How do we know what to trust in the games? Given the same games has Ridley harming Samus, even in ZM, yet in the manga she's taken zero damage. Clearly what happens in game shouldn't be taken at face value anymore no?
I also don't think you recognize that Samus' version of her equipment is canonically considered superior to whatever versions the rest of the universe has.
I'm aware it's considered top shit, but it's not straight up better than everything else, if it is, why aren't we scaling her to shit like the tier 4 anti-matter bombs? She has anti-matter attacks in Prime 2, so ergo, tier 4 anti-matter attacks right? Again, that's not even inherently true, there's been multiple instances where Samus and foes and enemies have been on similar footing with similar weaponry, if not the same. And this only actually applies to them
copying her equipment, they have worse versions because they can't replicate it properly, that isn't gonna cut it here lad, given they aren't replicating it, they're using the exact same weapon, the reason why other versions are inferior is completely skipped and they have the real deal.
For example, the GF has access to the Ice Beam and Plasma Beam, but both versions are completely lacking in comparison unless Samus absorbs them. They are very explicit that their feats is mostly because they're using Samus' equipment, including the
Ice Beam antagonist.
The Feds versions suck because they keep trying to replicate it and ******* it up or having to make compromises. It's not the same weapon, it's a pale copy of it. And yes, my point, it is VERY MUCH played off in S&J that them having the data capsules puts them on par with Samus using them. Because tehy're literally her versions of it and the same weapon.
And that's not even bringing up that the Greed Corps can't use her upgrades to their full potential. For example, in the Missile chapter,
the guy's Super Missiles were inferior enough that Power Suit Samus could capture them.
Similarly the Screw Attack didn't even have the energy projection/ invulnerability Samus usually has.
Ignoring the dead links, again. Out of context, that's actually pretty disingenuous. I'm assuming you mean when Samus calls him out on never being able to master the missiles and when she deflects it? Hate to break it to you, but that has absolutely nothing to do with power. It's because he's dumb as shit and, well, won't be able to master them because he's a trigger happy dumbass who just blasts away recklessly. And yes, Samus deflects it, not because it's weaker when he has it, that;s straight up never said, she deflects because she outright explains how, the Super Missiles, while powerful, are quite slow and have minimal spin, whoch allowed her to grab and toss it back. Your argument it based on a false premise and disingenuous at best.
I also want to point out in that chapter, they outright say that Samus' only
weapon is the power beam, and the power beam, as a weapon is weak so don't fear (Which they should, but eh, the reasoning they gave still stands). And the power beam, as a weapon, is piss weak and does zero damage to the dude, yet the super missile kills him, despite coming from him.
What's that mean?
It means that dude's missiles >>>>>> Samus' power beam, but if Samus is supposed to be universally above everyone and her weapons scale accordingly with her suit, wouldn't it make sense for the power beam to be comparable to the missiles, or at least in the same category instead
Let's not even get into the fact the dude keeps referring to the missiles as exceptionally strong irrespective of his own strength.
Why would that be? Because the weapons don't vary on who wields them. It's made pretty obvious, they're static in power or at least, any variance comes pre-built in like charging the beams or super missiles.
Secondly, the Screw Attack actually did have energy projection, the moment the starts using it, he starts shooting off strands of lightning-esque energy. And it is invulnerable, Samus outright states "NEVER touch the Screw Attack! Anything that does is destroyed! It's an invincible spinning sphere!" "Damn, if he's integrated the morph ball with the screw attack, damn! Beams and missiles won't work! What do we do!"
He also states "Your weapons are armor are useless!".
And the weakness of his isn't because of him, it's a weakness of the Screw Attack in general, Samus outright states "What's the Screw Attack's fatal weakness" and ponders what it is and figures it out, and explains it. That isn't exclusive to his version, it's straight up a weakness to it in general, hell it should be listed on the profile even in her weaknesses because it's explicitly a weakness of the technique as a whole, including her's.
As for the lack of energy, not even her version has the energy the majority of the time in the manga, that's simply what it looks like in that media.
Both your examples given are blatantly false or based on a false premise. If anything you've supported my point by pointing out two examples that in the actual context, adhere to what I'm arguing.
So the jump for tier 5 to 4 in Prime 2 makes sense for you, but tier 6 to 5 between the earlier suits doesn't? It's literally the same case.
I mean, the jump to tier 4 in Prime 2 makes sense because she's sucking up an absolute ******* ridiculous amount of through out the whole game and at the end even goes in guns blazing with a **** ton of it. It's not literally the same case, that's a straight up lie.
The part about the suit being even stronger meaning durability is just an assumption. It also says the same thing in Echoes, which notably doesn't increase durability (Since you don't actually use the basic Power Suit) / you're supposed to use the Power Beam a lot in that game too, yet we know she goes from tier 5 to 4. You're right about the second part, I just brought it so the full statement was there.
It's less an assumption and basic reading comprehension based on the context of the statement and correlated evidence. I stand by what I said, stronger can very easily mean the suit's stronger in the sense it can take more damage, especially given that's how it's portrayed in practically everything. Actually yeah, how the **** are you getting "made even stronger" to be about weaponry augmentation? Everything including the context points to it's innate defensive attributes. And yes, I'm aware of the source material that statement comes from, the prime 2 manual.
Yes? If it increases her in all attributes then obviously her AP would be included? I don't understand how that's an argument.
Physical attributes. Since when did wearing a suit of armor that enhances one's physical capabilities effect how strong the gun you have is? It doesn't, and that's what I'm arguing, because it's made apparent more times then not, that Samus' weaponry be like it do, it doesn't get amped when her suit does.
So you're alright with her physical strength being amped, but not her beam strength? The bulky pats, as far as I'm aware, haven't been retconned from being power generators.
Yes, I'm ok with the bulky muscular biosuit granting increased physical prowess over the smaller suit, thinner suit. My dude, they could be still power generators and what would that matter? Having more power generation doesn't mean she can feed said power into her weapons to amp. The only real exception to this would maybe be the power beam based on how that works and interacts with the suit? But something like missiles for example, what the **** would a power generator do? They don't even work by being empowered by her in the first place to begin with, they're honestly probably the most blatant example of static power in a weapon based on the mechanics of them alone. But nah, pretty sure they've been steathily changed based on Retro's art and blue prints of them but
How is the power scaling headcanon? It's like, the most straightforward thing here. Gravity Suit > Ridley (Post-Prime) > Legendary Varia Suit >Legendary Power Suit > Varia Suit > Ridley (ZM) > Power Suit is quite literally just based on when we fight Ridley in the games with what gear. Which part of this is headcanon, specially?
Powerscaling as a concept isn't headcanon, of course it's alright. Some basic powerscaling would be MB (Super) > Samus. That power scaling though I'm arguing is headcanon based on how little actual evidence there is for it, you have to actively dig for info to try and make it check out, and even there's ample contradictory info that goes against it. The existence of that chain is what's headcanon.
Hell, the fact you're even tossing Gravity in there as an amp is baffling in and of itself, you've barely got actual statements for Varia, let alone Gravity being an amp.
And what part is headcanon? That's an odd question to ask given I'm made it clear what parts I've taken issue with.
This is probably an entire argument on its own, considering that as far as I'm aware the X do amp them at times. Specifically, Neo-Ridley transformed from a mimic of Super Metroid Ridley before becoming Neo Ridley. SA-X has a secondary transformation, most of the SR-388 clones are evolutions of their non-X forms, like the Hornoad for example.
The fact you have to preface that with
sometimes is worrying as is, that's honestly my issue with your arguments, it's all maybes or possiblys, nothing concrete.
But yeah, they can amp sometimes, but when they do so it's by mixing and splicing past hosts genes into that of the creature they're currently mimicking. No such evidence for that exists in the case of Ridley. The SA-X's transformation is actually due to the previous reasoning iirc, it was a mix between Samus and those little frog lads. There's definitely visual differences but given the numerous statements saying they attempt perfect mimicry... And in the actual game that's shown to be the case for the most part.
Hell by late game, they made regular Space Pirates into a copy of the Gold Pirates (somehow) from Super Metroid. That's quite literally a jump from tier 7 to 5.
eh.
I'd hope so, they have access to the whole genome, why wouldn't they be able to mimic pre-exiting sub-types of the creature they copied the genes of
A 6-C being should be able to survive 3 or so shots from a baseline 6-B character.
Uh, not really no. Ignoring the first two hits he took just fine actually, and the third hit he also tanked, it was the whole "being burned alive" thing that did him in (which isn't even the first time, he got ****** by being caught in a tier 7 blast, with it being pointed out him being burned alive is what ****** him up really bad). Yeah, he took attacks from quite well and was done in by something that he just sucks against ig based on past precedence.
And also, what? Ignoring the fact he ain't 6-C, that 6-C calc is wrong, if we using that he's Tier 7 at best, even with 6-C, you realize the difference between baseline 6-B and what Ridley was at is like, 500x right? Ridley would have been reduced to a bloody spray or vapor if hit by a gap that large even once.
6-C isn't even the tier below 6-B, there's low 6-B and High 6-C too, it's a h u g e difference.
No, I just responded to you only saying clones by only saying Other M.
So you didn't actually attempt to refute the point with an actual counter.
Clones, two of them, actually just one but featured in two games, were shown around that of Varia and above, and while yes, Samus did lose some will, she got back into it for the fight and went all out and Ridley was still a match, a Ridley clone, who had zero amps or augmentations, and could even toss hands with Samus a bit as a adolescents. And then an X in Fusion that is stated to be replicating his genes, fighting Samus.
The Plasma Beam was quite literally inferior right before Fusion in Other M. Hell, the entire reason the Feds tried to trap Samus & SA-X in the last part of Fusion is because their tech is still inferior. But even if we didn't know this, the idea that the Federation is anywhere close to Samus when even the Pirates hadn't figured out the Morph Ball with the help of Mother Brain is absurd.
Half truth, they tried to trap Samus at the end of Fusion because they wanted the X, as a whole, not just her, but weaponized X. Which Samus was like yeah **** off with that I'd rather die. And sure, why wouldnt they want an army of Samus clones or more time to study, replicate or even improve her tech? It's not like the feds are incapable of creating weapons or tech that can complicate Samus, I mean, see literally the next game (Unless it's a **** ton of time post Fusion).
With the help of Mother Brain? Who says Mother Brain was actively helping with that project? In fact, if Mother Brain was helping with that project I'd assume they ******* could perfectly given she has access and knows a **** ton of Chozo lore and managed to make a form that ragdolled and stomped Samus at her near peak, so it ain't like the Pirates with MB's help can't make tech and weapons above Samus.
They walked out of Mother Brain's room, that's pretty deep in Tourian.
Which alone should be a red flag given you just argued they walked out of a room miles underground, into a top of a mountain that can be seen from the sky.
I could just do the same lad. Though the fact you repeated the same argument with the S&J scans is pretty off-putting, it's bordeing on lies there. It's a pretty obvious falally, what is it? False cause?
You're saying that Samus managing to deflect the Super Missile means it's weaker then her own, even though it's explained why she could do so. Or how because that dude's Screw Attack isn't invincible, it's weaker than Samus', even though it's made blatantly obvious and stated multiple times missiles and beams won't work on him, he's invincible, and he can't be touched. And the weakness of it is blatantly in regards to the technique as a whole, not his version exclusively.
