Methuselah Vs Yhwach

[Schnee_One]

He should be to be honest

 

[Rocker1189]

^ I said it to Red before. But he told me the number was too high to be used.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@Sigurd: A while back Reinhard was 4-A via scaling from Amakasu's Gods of Ragnarok, who are more powerful than Huanglong who in turn is stronger than his Tatari self Nakiri Kuubou.

He's 3-A rn for the same reasons, tho no one bothered to really figure out and see if Methuselah's feat would now be consistent.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Yall should make a CRT for it IMO, his AP right now sounds like "we have an idea of how powerful he really is but 5-B is safer" to me lol.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I kinda think it also has to do with the fact that even the decillion loops of Merc that added to his nights are also a lowball cuz that's from Merc's own memory, so high end is an even bigger amount of nights Methu has piled up.

Well regardless I talked to ALRF on Discord on this and he said Methuselah can be Tier 3, or at least Reinhard even at IKABey or something. Could make a thread about this later I guess.

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

Yall should make a CRT for it IMO, his AP right now sounds like "we have an idea of how powerful he really is but 5-B is safer" to me lol.

been there, done it.

this humble blog of mine have a simple calc of his hypothetical ap from his darkness + a link to a thread where this got brought up

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Gun_Slave_Unit/methuselah's_night

the tl;dr of it is that it wouldn't really be applicable to his ap. his durability maybe, but there's no evidence that hes packing the weigth of his entire darkness in each of his attack to warrant a massive ap tiering change

edit: though i guess you can use his jaws of darkness being made out of a hundred nights (which mean 50 x baseline planet level) to be something that sits in tier 5-a. so that's something i suppose

 

[Warren_Valion]

Having Methuselah being tier 3 is somewhat disingenuous, I believe.

While Meth does embody the darkness of the nights that have existed since the begining, Meth doesn't attack with totality of nights that he embodies.

Each ability that he uses has a different amount of nights within them.

His "Jaws of Darkness" each possess the strength of one hundred nights.

His "Nihili Est Qui Nihil Amat" are 500,000 layers of nights separated from one another as to keep Machina at bay.

His "Fortes Fortuna Adjuvat. Magna Voluisse Magnum", initally has the power to shink a continent and grows in power with every instant, but we never got to see the full strength of this move because of Wilhelm.

Meth can also cause the destruction of the planet by stripping away all the darkness in areas where light isn't there - causing a void of neither light and darkness to exist which causes the plaent to collapse.


So I don't know if making Meth Tier 3 is entirely accurate.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

What about his dura? He is made of all those nights after all.

Not asking for an upgrade btw

 

[Warren_Valion]

What about his dura? He is made of all those nights after all.
Not asking for an upgrade btw

His durability would most likely scale to the totality of his nights because he embodies those nights.

Wilhelm was able to injure Meth at the cost of the totality of every single one of his nights in every punch. Everything that Wilhelm did was destroying him, yet Reinhard's blessing just instantly brought him back every time instantly - so I don't know if Wilhelm's durabiltiy would scale to his AP.

 

[PsychoWarper]

So what could this potentially change?

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

he embodies it and reinhard had to blow all his mysteries to beat him and reduce what's essentially an ancient god embodying an aspect of nature known as darkness to just a wikipedia page. with the victim in question only holding out what's left of him through sheer willpower and at that point hes practically just a normal human since he was hijacking one in the first place (ludwig's body)

so yeah i'd agree if the changes only affect his durability since that's just the inherent nature of his being i think

 

[PsychoWarper]

Surviving even a laser blast from LLT is impressive

 

[Paul_Frank]

So it would scale to Wilhelm's ap but not durability, would the commanders scale to Wilhelm's ap still.

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

most likely not. looking back at the fight scene between the two, only reason wilhelm was even capable of harming methuselah wasn't purely because of the former's power but because of a karmic link shared between both men through claudia. at that point wilhelm wasn't really beating the shit out of methuselah as an ancient god of darkness but methuselah as his fellow bloodkin. personally don't think that wilhelm would necessarily scale to methuselah's durability as a god in any way

 

[Warren_Valion]

I wonder if the Commanders scale to Wilhelm - if they do, I believe that not just their AP scales, but their durability would too.

Reinhard should scale far beyond all of them.


But should Meth's AP be?

I'm thinking "Unknow At least (Insert whatever tier his Jaws of Darkness is) via his Jaws of Darkness, possibly far higher."

Since Meth was able to take away 500,000 nights from his being just to keep Machina at bay - there is no saying that Meth couldn't use that to attack someone, but we can't say for sure since he never did it.

So I think this might be best.

 

[Warren_Valion]

most likely not. looking back at the fight scene between the two, only reason wilhelm was even capable of harming methuselah wasn't purely because of the former's power but because of a karmic link shared between both men through claudia. at that point wilhelm wasn't really beating the shit out of methuselah as an ancient god of darkness but methuselah as his fellow bloodkin. personally don't think that wilhelm would necessarily scale to methuselah's durability as a god in any way

The Blood Collection between Wilhelm, Ludwig, and Claudia is what allowed Wilhelm to affect Ludwig because of his conceptual nature making him impossible to interact with - not that it weakend Ludwig's durability.

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

their briah already took care of that since it'll overturn even a basic idea such as "darkness is indestructible" on its own heel, it just that no one in that particular fight scene had enough juice to actually harm him aside from reinhard and karl krafft. though i guess someone like rusalka and wilhelm wouldn't get such perk since their briah are something that still fall under what methuselah rules, the former being shadow and the latter being night

what i'm saying is that the bloodkin thing doesn't downgrade his durability. but rather relative to wilhelm only in that particular fight scene, methuselah's relative powerlevel interact differently with wilhelm than when it was interacting with the other apostles

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Do agree with GSU

Besides, even if you wanna scale Wil to Meth somehow, he'd only go as far as whatever tiering the jaws of darkness would be since it also damaged his body. Which is tier 5 range

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

Do agree with GSU
Besides, even if you wanna scale Wil to Meth somehow, he'd only go as far as whatever tiering the jaws of darkness would be since it also damaged his body. Which is tier 5 range

this would also be a strong point of contention. wilhelm's (and by proxy, the 3 commanders) tiering as a temporary einherjar mostly stemmed from methuselah's construct that he punched away which also somewhat destroy his body.

besides, karl krafft gave us the premise of the fight before it even began. there are 2 victories against methuselah, one through logic while the other through sheer might. the former was relegated to wilhelm due to his personal bout with methuselah (which kinda dismiss wilhelm's fight being grounded on purely power of both combatants), while the latter being only something that reinhard could achieve

if anything, the only character whose ap would scale to methuselah's full durability is solely reinhard, and maybe some other guy who scales to him. but this can be discussed on another revision thread if need be

 

[Maxnumb231]

Sp I guess I'll conclude this as stomp for Meths favor