Metal Sonic vs Deku

[Axxtentacle]

I should mention, but Metal definitely has the acceleration advantage over Deku from here:



Acceleration is how fast you can reach your top speed.

...deku starts at 100%. He literally starts at top speed, so that’s irrelevant.

Yea, if you want to claim he can completely keep up with Metal's flight

Super Peel Out wouldn’t apply to Metal’s flight. Super Peel Out is via running, and flight is... flight. It’s not the same.

One is a power(Metal), the other is just being smart(Deku)

Uh... ok? What does that matter? Deku can predict people beyond his speed. That’s moot.

I said with Afterimages. And it's much faster than before which you can see just by watching the movie

and Deku can, as his profile states, predict people much faster than him.

Waiting for Deku to tire out with lower stamina and the ability to feel pain is also an option

This implies that he’s going to stay on the ground the entire time using super peel out and literally never attacking. Deku can catch him with melee since he can predict him. Also, Deku has ranged AOE air blasts which scale to his AP. I don’t see why this wouldn’t work.

Deku has a better arsenal, better general stats, and Super Peel Out doesn’t apply to flying speed since it’s a running technique. Deku is also strategically intelligent, and has outsmarted and defeated characters stronger than him because of this.

I vote Deku, mid-difficulty.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Also, does Metal even use this technique in character often?

 

[ElixirBlue]

...deku starts at 100%. He literally starts at top speed, so that’s irrelevant.

I don't think you understands what acceleration means. It means how fast you can go top speed from a stop, stationary. And I've seen Deku stop before in his fights.

Metal has visual acceleration scaling from Sonic who matches Metal's top speed. And Metal's acceleration makes Sonic look slow, even tho he is not, just that he doesn't have as good acceleration as Metal.

Super Peel Out wouldn’t apply to Metal’s flight. Super Peel Out is via running, and flight is... flight. It’s not the same.

Oh sure, the battle will always be air born. Not really, as both characters, more Deku than Metal, fight on the ground too.

Uh... ok? What does that matter? Deku can predict people beyond his speed. That’s moot.

No, that means Metal's doesn't require thinking to analyze his opponent

and Deku can, as his profile states, predict people much faster than him.

They didn't have Afterimages

This implies that he’s going to stay on the ground the entire time using super peel out and literally never attacking.

It's an option that works for Metal

Deku can catch him with melee since he can predict him.

So can Metal, not an advantage

Also, Deku has ranged AOE air blasts which scale to his AP. I don’t see why this wouldn’t work.

If his accuracy comes from analyzing his opponents, Metal can counter by analyzing him

Super Peel Out doesn’t apply to flying speed since it’s a running technique.

Run, fly, down to the ground if slowing down, repeat

 

[ElixirBlue]

Also, does Metal even use this technique in character often?

Which one?

 

[Axxtentacle]

I don't think you understands what acceleration means. It means how fast you can go top speed from a stop, stationary. And I've seen Deku stop before in his fights.

Metal has visual acceleration scaling from Sonic who matches Metal's top speed. And Metal's acceleration makes Sonic look slow, even tho he is not, just that he doesn't have as good acceleration as Metal.

...why does this matter at all lmao

Oh sure, the battle will always be air born. Not really, as both characters, more Deku than Metal, fight on the ground too.

...and Metal is likely to go for H2H against deku on the ground, it’s really not likely that he’ll be able to constantly avoid all hits

No, that means Metal's doesn't require thinking to analyze his opponent

What? Why does this matter? It’s ANALYTICAL PREDICTION either way. Also, by the way computers work, he would have to process their attacks, which is “thinking”.

They didn't have Afterimages

That doesn’t... up the speed?

It's an option that works for Metal

Is it in character? and even so, Deku has ranged AOE that scales to his AP, while Metal’s ranged attacks don’t necessarily keep up, and his speed amp doesn’t work in the air.

So can Metal, not an advantage

So they can hit each other, and Deku hits harder and has higher durability. What a disadvantage for Deku.

If his accuracy comes from analyzing his opponents, Metal can counter by analyzing him

So Metal analyzes and copies his techniques, which gives metal a downside since Deku learned his entire fighting style from other people, and already knows all of it.

Run, fly, down to the ground if slowing down, repeat

This... isn’t in character. Deku can still used his RANGED AOE THAT SCALES TO HIS AP to hit him anyway.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Which one?

Super Peel Out.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Super Peel Out.

He has it from copying Sonic. To say he wouldn't use it, even if he were to get great damage from Deku's higher AP, is not an argument that makes logical sense

I don't think you understands what acceleration means. It means how fast you can go top speed from a stop, stationary. And I've seen Deku stop before in his fights.

Metal has visual acceleration scaling from Sonic who matches Metal's top speed. And Metal's acceleration makes Sonic look slow, even tho he is not, just that he doesn't have as good acceleration as Metal.

...why does this matter at all lmao

Metal WILL reach Top Speed of Speed Equalized faster than Deku because of his acceleration. Whenever Deku needs to stop his momentum to change direction, Metal will be faster than Deku to reach top speed again after turning a direction because of his superior acceleration.

 

[Axxtentacle]

He has it from copying Sonic. To say he wouldn't use it, even if he were to get great damage from Deku's higher AP, is not an argument that makes logical sense

Nice strawman, I literally asked if it was in character. I didn’t say he wouldn’t use it, i’m literally ASKING if he ever uses it again or is likely to use it.

Metal WILL reach Top Speed of Speed Equalized faster than Deku because of his acceleration. Whenever Deku needs to stop his momentum to change direction, Metal will be faster than Deku to reach top speed again after turning a direction because of his superior acceleration.

What does this literally have to do with anything? What significance does this have? Are you arguing that their RECOVERY speed is a big, game-changing factor here? Also “speed equalized” doesn’t that also apply to the SPEED OF YOUR ACCELERATION? This argument makes quite literally no sense.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Isn’t that also a fallacious argument since you just didn’t say “acceleration speed” to make it seem like this actually makes a difference, when “acceleration speed” is literally how it works?

Using different wording in order to make something seem more legitimate is a fallacy, chief. I was hoping we wouldn’t come down to using fallacies to try to make points look better.

 

[ElixirBlue]

What does this literally have to do with anything? What significance does this have? Are you arguing that their RECOVERY speed is a big, game-changing factor here? Also “speed equalized” doesn’t that also apply to the SPEED OF YOUR ACCELERATION? This argument makes quite literally no sense.

Sonic and Metal Sonic both had Equal Speed(Speed Equalized) in the plot, due to how Metal was built with Sonic's Life Force Data, but Metal had the better Acceleration.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Sonic and Metal Sonic both had Equal Speed(Speed Equalized) in the plot, but Metal had the better Acceleration, due to how he was built.

That’s literally the most moronic thing you could’ve said here, honestly. Equalized speed is an optional application to a battle, just because the characters were even in speed in there doesn’t mean they follow the same rules of Speed Equalized on our Wiki.

What kind of false equivalency is this? Why are you resorting to pure fallacious arguments?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Also, if Metal Sonic was recovering faster with acceleration, that means his literal ACCELERATION SPEED IS FASTER. That still DOESN’T APPLY TO SPEED EQUALIZED BATTLES.

Stop using fallacies dude, it’s blatant and you’re making your argument look worse with every sentence.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Ok, prove my justifications are fallacies. Post it here.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Ok, prove my justifications are fallacies. Post it here.

Prove that 2 characters having similar speed isn’t equivalent to this wiki’s speed equalization optional rule for fights? I HAVE to prove that?

Also, nice burden of proof fallacy. You have to prove that they ARE the same. You can’t just claim they’re the same without proving it then saying others need to disprove it.

 

[ElixirBlue]

"What is the difference between acceleration, speed and velocity?"​

"Speed is the rate of change of distance(basically how much distance(m) has been covered in a particular time(s)). Velocity is the rate of change of displacement( change of distance in a particular direction with respect to time) , and acceleration is the rate of change of velocity per unit of time.(Amount of increase or decrease in velocity). Also, speed is a scalar quantity but velocity and acceleration are vector quantities."

 

[Axxtentacle]

"What is the difference between acceleration, speed and velocity?"​

"Speed is the rate of change of distance(basically how much distance(m) has been covered in a particular time(s)). Velocity is the rate of change of displacement( change of distance in a particular direction with respect to time) , and acceleration is the rate of change of velocity per unit of time.(Amount of increase or decrease in velocity). Also, speed is a scalar quantity but velocity and acceleration are vector quantities."

I’d like to point out that “recovery speed” and “acceleration” aren’t the same. Being able to recover from an attack quickly literally isn’t “acceleration” it’s part of combat speed by default.

Meaning, speed equalization accounts for this, making this point completely null.

 

[ElixirBlue]

But I never talked about recovering from an attack

 

[Axxtentacle]

But I never talked about recovering from an attack

You talked about recovering from “stopping momentum”. I worded that poorly, but it’s the same premise. It falls under “speed” still.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Question? Is Super Peel Out a Speed Amplification?

 

[ElixirBlue]

Question? Is Super Peel Out a Speed Amplification?

Yes

 

[ElixirBlue]

You talked about recovering from “stopping momentum”. I worded that poorly, but it’s the same premise. It falls under “speed” still.

Acceleration doesn't fall under the definition of "Speed", period

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Isn't Metal Sonic at an disadvantage with Deku having One-Shot Worthy AP (Though I can't remember if it was a direct hit or just a shockwave that destroyed the barrier)?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Acceleration doesn't fall under the definition of "Speed", period

it’s literally not “acceleration” it’s recovering from a “loss of momentum” which also really wouldn’t happen if Deku was in the air.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Isn't Metal Sonic at an disadvantage with Deku having One-Shot Worthy AP (Though I can't remember if it was a direct hit or just a shockwave that destroyed the barrier)?

Not one shot worthy, but it’d really only be a few hits to take him out.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Not one shot worthy, but it’d really only be a few hits to take him out.

Didn't Deku One-Shot Nine's Barrier that Tanked Bakugou's 5.48 Megaton attack without problem?

What I'm saying is basically doesn't Deku's AP One-Shot objects that have Durability that are able to Tank 5.48 Megatons AP?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Didn't Deku One-Shot Nine's Barrier that Tanked Bakugou's 5.48 Megaton attack without problem?

What I'm saying is basically doesn't Deku's AP One-Shot objects that have Durability that are able to Tank 5.48 Megatons AP?

I was saying since it isn’t confirmed how much higher, that it possibly wouldn’t be a 1 shot, for the sake of the fight.

Metal tanked attacks that accidentally caused a mountain to collapse which would be 4.7 megatons roughly, so it’s likely that he’ll at least severely damage him with hits.

Possibly 1 shot if he hits, which is more than likely.

 

[ElixirBlue]

it’s literally not “acceleration” it’s recovering from a “loss of momentum” which also really wouldn’t happen if Deku was in the air.

Why wouldn't the fight alternate between the sky and the ground?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Why wouldn't the fight alternate between the sky and the ground?

I never said it wouldn’t, I’m saying that it’s a disadvantage for Metal in the air if he did this, since Deku can keep up perfectly fine and basically fly around in a similar way. He couldn’t use his speed boost, and it’s not in character for metal sonic to just not fight aggressively. He’s more likely to try to fight on the ground in character, and it’s a better advantage via speed amp.

Even with speed amp, Deku can still predict him. And Deku has AOE, which would make it harder for Metal to dodge.

Deku just has more wincons here than Metal. It’s not in character for Metal to just run away and try to drain Deku of his stamina. As far as I know, he’s literally never done something like that.

 

[Earthyboy]

My vote is for Deku here. His prediction skills are what gives him the win here. He's stronger and can keep up with Metal. Anything Metal would do Deku can predict. This is a good matchup but Deku wins.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

So far it seems like this

Deku can do an abysmal amount of Damage to Sonic since he can one Shot 5.48 megatons literally 6 times in a row.
Probably could bring down Metal Sonic in a handful of blows if he fights smart.

Sonic can get faster as the battle goes on which could be a hassle for Deku but he could easily adapt to such speed.

Deku Wide range AOE shockwaves will still be hard to dodge even with Speed amps they also semi scale to Deku’s AP

If Metal Sonic copies he’s easier for Deku to predict.
Metal Sonic has a Stamina Edge and could try to wear Deku down while also using Hit and Run tactics.

Metal Sonic has wincons but Deku seemingly has more.
Voting for Deku

 

[Axxtentacle]

Midoriya Got this

Does this count as a vote? I’m not sure.

Also,

Deku dies instantly because he can’t use 100% on more than one limb in this key

Do you have a vote to cast?

 

[Axxtentacle]

So far it seems like this

Deku can do an abysmal amount of Damage to Sonic since he can one Shot 5.48 megatons literally 6 times in a row.
Probably could bring down Metal Sonic in a handful of blows if he fights smart.

Sonic can get faster as the battle goes on which could be a hassle for Deku but he could easily adapt to such speed.

Deku Wide range AOE shockwaves will still be hard to dodge even with Speed amps they also semi scale to Deku’s AP

If Metal Sonic copies he’s easier for Deku to predict.
Metal Sonic has a Stamina Edge and could try to wear Deku down while also using Hit and Run tactics.

Metal Sonic has wincons but Deku seemingly has more.
Voting for Deku

Yep.

It’s consistent and in character for him to fight smart, using pretty advanced tactics and coming up with strategies to beat people.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Sigh

His prediction skills are what gives him the win here.

Metal has it too

and can keep up with Metal.

I have proven a lot in this thread that is not the case

.. for Deku but he could easily adapt to such speed.

How? Pls explain.

since Deku can keep up perfectly fine

How? Pls Explain how Deku can keep up with a character who:

1. Goes 0 to 100 in Speed far faster than Deku because of the scaling to Sonic's Acceleration

2. Creates AfterImages

3. Has a Speed Amp technique he can use on the ground.

4. Can predict Deku's moves without thinking, while Deku needs to think about his opponent to predict them

5. And has better mobility in the air to fly, due to the nature of both of their abilites to fly, Deku needs to constantly be on the move to fly with Metal can choose to hover.

And Metal has feats of flying to a high altitude than Deku and still fly perfectly fine without exhaustion.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Sigh


Metal has it too

Jesus christ, the point is that Deku still has the capability to do it. How much are you going to attempt to stonewall this before giving up?

I have proven a lot in this thread that is not the case

You haven’t proven anything big enough to change the battle. You’ve proven that he can get a speed boost that may or may not help him very much on the ground ONLY.

How? Pls explain.

By analyzing him and predicting his movements.

How? Pls Explain how Deku can keep up with a character who:

1. Goes 0 to 100 in Speed far faster than Deku because of the scaling to Sonic's Acceleration

2. Creates AfterImages

3. Has a Speed Amp technique he can use on the ground.

4. Can predict Deku's moves without thinking, while Deku needs to think about his opponent to predict them

5. And has better mobility in the air to fly, due to the nature of both of their abilites to fly, Deku needs to constantly be on the move to fly with Metal can choose to hover.

I’ve literally addressed all of these already. Stop stonewalling. You’re literally ignoring refutals, that’s blatant stonewalling.

And Metal has feats of flying to a high altitude than Deku and still fly perfectly fine without exhaustion.

Deku can also keep 100% up for a decently long period of time, way more than long enough to land just a few shots on Metal. I’ve also LITERALLY ADDRESSED THIS ALREADY. Disprove my refutals before attempting to use these moronic arguments to disprove something else.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Jesus christ, the point is that Deku still has the capability to do it. How much are you going to attempt to stonewall this before giving up?

Till you stop treating it like an advantage only Deku can do and Metal could not.

By analyzing him and predicting his movements.

Metal can do it too. You haven't proven why analyzing and predicting movements matter in this fight when both of them do it.

Deku can also keep 100% up for a decently long period of time, way more than long enough to land just a few shots on Metal.

Cool, a vague long period of time.

Metal was active and flying for an entire day.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I’ve literally addressed all of these already. Stop stonewalling. You’re literally ignoring refutals, that’s blatant stonewalling.

Have you? You keep trying to push "analyzing and predicting movements" matters for Deku to win when both fighters do it.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Till you stop treating it like an advantage only Deku can do and Metal could not.

I literally have not treated it like an advantage only Deku has. That’s literally a strawman, i’ve not portrayed it like that at all. I’ve literally said both fighters are capable of it, which means they’re both capable of hitting each other.

Metal can do it too. You haven't proven why analyzing and predicting movements matter in this fight when both of them do it.

It gives BOTH of them the ability to hit each other properly.

Cool, a vague long period of time.

Metal was active and flying for an entire day.

It’s mostly unknown, so it literally has to be vague. It’s not like a fight like this is going to last very long anyway, if Deku lands hits (which is likely) it’ll severely damage and hinder Metal Sonic.

Have you? You keep trying to push "analyzing and predicting movements" matters for Deku to win when both fighters do it.

I’ve given it a reason as to why Deku CAN hit him. Even if you think for some reason that Deku couldn’t predict him, he still has AOE which he uses in character, which scales to his AP anyway.

And yes, i’ve literally given arguments against each of those points individually earlier on in the thread.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Jesus, why not just consider their Analytical Prediction as Non-Factors for the match and focus on their other advantages?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Jesus, why not just consider their Analytical Prediction as Non-Factors for the match and focus on their other advantages?

That’s effectively what I mean when I say both users are able to use it to hit each other. That’s better wording than how i’ve said it, but it’s what my intention was.

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

Ok, I have been watching this from the sidelines this entire time and this thread seemed to starting to go in circles. I suggest we wrap this up quickly before it gets any worse then it already is.

Deku FRA.