Meltlilith vs Yuuki Kagurazaka Match Removal Discussion

[Paul_Frank]

"Meltlilith's Noble Phantasm, derived from the Hindu goddess Saraswati and the Japanese Buddhist goddess Benzaiten, who preside over knowledge and the arts. With their authority, Meltilith is able to control anything "that flows", whether it be natural phenomena like wind and water, or man-made concepts like speech, prose, and music. This takes the form of the massive vortexes that Meltlilith creates as she battles as well as the "honey" she secretes for her Melt Virus, she is able to wash away her foes' body, common sense, morals, mind, society, and civilizatio to such an extent that it would be classified as an Anti-World Noble Phantasm rather than Meltlilith's preferred use of it as a targeted attack."

This was one of the things

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I can control f on phone

Teach me sensei

 

[Jackythejack]

I mean I dunno do you use safari?

I don't find it that difficult

 

[Elizhaa]

@TheUpgradeManHaHaxD did have some scans so here was his message.

"The third is the Indian river goddess Sarasvati. She has the ability to spin "flowing things," such as natural phenomena especially water and wind, music and words, speech, poetry and prose. The tones that flow from this can cause any emotion to boil up in the heart of the listener, and can even interfere with the flow of electrons in computer networks ." - This is what my translations say.

and the guidebook makes it seem more like "civilization" is something physical https://www.tmdict.com/en/sa.saraswati-meltout

Oh if we are comparing Authority then it might just be possible. We'll have to get Monarch Laciel opinion for the edits...

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Iapeto mentioned that it was conceputal control over things that flow by using her command of her authority

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Elizhaa

That whole thing in general is reference to Authority of nation building, i.e. civilization. Civilization in the Nasuverse would be impossible without the gods and other similar beings using their authority to create the proper concepts. If they have the authority over "things that flow" then it is undoubtably conceptual

 

[The_Causality]

So the absorption is 4-D like everyone saying in the battle thread. That mean Melt still absorb GG. so literally nothing changed at all.

 

[AKM sama]

If there was so much discussion to be held, shouldn't you guys have made a new vs thread to settle the matter?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

If there was so much discussion to be held, shouldn't you guys have made a new vs thread to settle the matter?

Because nothing that was important to the other match changed. Melt's only important/primary win condition still works, and Yuuki's win conditions haven't changed.

 

[Elizhaa]

So the absorption is 4-D like everyone saying in the battle thread. That mean Melt still absorb GG. so literally nothing changed at all.

I see Melt Virus could be 4-D. I don't see proof for Absorbtion.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Melt Virus and authority are the same ability

 

[Elizhaa]

So, Melt Virus is absorption too because her profile doesn't said it?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

It literally says that Melt Virus is an evolution of the basic absorption skill

 

[Elizhaa]

In any case, Yuuki's wincon usage via Time Control in speed-equalized: Massively FTL+ with Time Control (Can control the flow of time with Time Control, which allows the user to stop time and move a 1 million times normal speed while in stopped time)

I discussed on it work here. She can't resist it since he only used it to boost his speed. He used it character quickly and should semi-passive as thought-based from an Ultimate Skill. He may able to resist the Time Stop but not the time speed boost in my opinion.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3154160#246

With this speed, he has enough opening to go for Fertile Paradox for Sealing which bypassed her invlunerablity since it is not a attack:

• Fertile Paradox: An ability which by using his opponents body as the core, covers the entire area in darkness. It isn't actually an attack, but Veldora's divine protection, which by using his opponents energy, quickens the growth of nature, and restores the land back to its state before it was destroyed. The end result of the ability is that it creates a large forest with lush vegetation, while his opponent is sucked into the ground and completely disappears, becoming apart of the land, needing hundreds if not a thousand years to be able to regenerate their body. Even someone like Dagruel who has low-godly regen needs hundreds if not a thousand years to regenerate his body.

Another inconclusive case, he can use destroyed the universe with a attack like Gluttonous King Beelezbub. In the end of series, he did destroyed the universe so it is not out-character as it was his goal so it not out-of character.

The way I see is if Yuuki's Time Control speed boost doesn't work at all. Then, this match is a stomp.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Fertile Paradox sounds a lot like an attack to me

 

[Elizhaa]

Fertile Paradox sounds a lot like an attack to me

The verse said it is not an attack. It is closer to sealing.

 

[The_Causality]

At this point I just see someone who heavily want to remove a match with all he has to disposition. The thread was created to discuss why Melt won thank to the absorption, this has been confirmed, after that you still ask for the invulnerability, this too has been confirmed and now you brought the same reasoning in the thread where People still voted Melt even with those reason.

Just close this, this getting nowhere, OP stuff has been discussed.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

The verse said it is not an attack. It is closer to sealing.

it is sealing. Which is an offensive maneuver, aka attack

 

[Schnee_One]

Absoluteku no one agreed with removing

But whoever closes this is going to get swarmed with messages by Eliza's anyway

So what's the point?

BTW Sealing soul definitely work from what I can tell, But Melt wins long before that.

 

[Elizhaa]

I will be transparent I asked @Antvasima to reopen the match as personally the discussion didn't look over and caught me without warning.

I got my mixed signal that sealing didn't work since I am not that knowledgeable with Fate. I will keep it in mind that it does.

I do know skills from Ultimate Skills like Time Control are near-passive as though-based or wish-based.

And since ultimate skills do not require an incantation, merely wishing for something can produce results.
	~ Chapter 081 - The Banquet​

So, if the argument is who win because it is faster it looks Yuuki, to me.

Note: I did get complaint that my views looks to change whether for malicious reason or others. I only change my viewpoints based on the arguments that I believe would be valid. Prior, I believe the match should be removed because Conceptual Manipulation was brought up as the main. Likewise, the absorption or Melt Virus that never brought up in the past versus thread as higher-dimensional was brought up here, in any case. I believe the match was a stomp due the possible 8-D Melt as I explained above but @Monarch debunked it.

I also did remember later than match at most argument when the speed was unequalized which the Time Speed Boost argument null as it was speed stomp. Well, the match got accepted since to me there were enough valid arguments at that time.

Well, I am not going to disregard something I believed to be valid whether it is supporting my points or against my points in threads.

You guys are welcome to believe you want but this is the explainatio

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

No offence, but your personal opinion doesn't matter with these matches. Additionally, Schnee pointed out why people may think that you have malicious intent in your message on his wall and you didn't even address any of them afaik.

 

[AKM sama]

This thread needs to be closed. What is the conclusion?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Yeah

Melt vs Yuuki should just be remade tbh. The original thread is 220 something posts long

 

[Elizhaa]

No offence, but your personal opinion doesn't matter with these matches. Additionally, Schnee pointed out why people may think that you have malicious intent in your message on his wall and you didn't even address any of them afaik.

Well, my personal opinions on valid arguments does matter but I take no offenses, in general.

Well, the points below the strikethough were supposed to be strikethough but I had a coding oversight which I fixed, it is happened.

I don't believe fallacies clear are motive of malicious intents but I believe they are non-arguments just like Strawman would be. I don't attack people or their character directly in debate but I only attack fallacious or incorrect arguments.

I would respect if this fallacies are not done, to me.

It wasn't really supposed to be argument.

 

[Elizhaa]

In any case, back on the discussion topic.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I just want one answer.

What is Yuuki's opening move? Simply saying "he wins because Ultimate Skills says he does because he wants to" isn't gonna cut it since that's just reality warping which gets resisted.

 

[Schnee_One]

This thread needs to be closed. What is the conclusion?

No one agreed with the OP on removing the thread

When I closed it, the discussion simply kept going same reason/Same way as before. Which was getting incredibly repetitive

 

[Elizhaa]

I just want one answer.
What is Yuuki's opening move? Simply saying "he wins because Ultimate Skills says he does because he wants to" isn't gonna cut it since that's just reality warping which gets resisted.

Timestop and Speed Time Boost are his opening moves

 

[Paul_Frank]

So he dies badly and nothing from the thread changed and this can be closed

 

[The_Causality]

@HL3 Just ask OPmasada again but he already said this in the versus thread:

People also seem to be forgetting that none of the abilities being suggested to win are ones Yuuki would even start with, or even use without acknowledgement of his incapability to win by regular means.
	~ OPmasada​

 

[Elizhaa]

@Schnee One, the reasoning topics did changes though and are not really the same way before. I can't help if the thread discussion looks repetitive.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

except that before you said it was Chrono Saltation

or Fertile Paradox

or Gluttonous King Beezlebub

so which is it?

 

[AKM sama]

At this point you guys are just arguing like the vs thread itself, which should happen in a vs thread. Not here.

@Schnee if nobody agreed then it should probably be fine to close this. The match shouldn't be removed and if someone has a problem, they can make a rematch thread.

 

[Elizhaa]

@HL3 Just ask OPmasada again but he already said this in the versus thread:

People also seem to be forgetting that none of the abilities being suggested to win are ones Yuuki would even start with, or even use without acknowledgement of his incapability to win by regular means.
	~ OPmasada​

Well, he did used Time Stop and Time Speed Boost quickly as opening moves in the final fight. Well, in any case, with large time speed boost in the millions, he is bound to used he would believe would work like sealing.

 

[The_Causality]

Yea just close this again, if people want to argue again, then remake the versus.

 

[Elizhaa]

Yeah
Melt vs Yuuki should just be remade tbh. The original thread is 220 something posts long

I guess it is fine.

 

[Elizhaa]

I could always make a better versus thread soon.

 

[AKM sama]

I could always make a better versus thread soon.

Okay, I am closing this then.