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Megami Tensei - The Expansive, Collective CRT Part II

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As well as Demi-Fiend and Dante from Nocturne, Aleph from SMTII, Tadano Hitonari/Crewcut-kun from Strange Journey, and Devil Survivor MCs

Strange Journey MC's name is literally "Just an ordinary person" in Japanese, so I just give him a random nickname
 
Scottycj256 said:
As well as Demi-Fiend and Dante from Nocturne, Aleph from SMTII, Tadano Hitonari/Crewcut-kun from Strange Journey, and Devil Survivor MCs

Strange Journey MC's name is literally "Just an ordinary person" in Japanese, so I just give him a random nickname
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The Diamond Messiahs are the strongest versions of the mainline protags, so it can't be them, and SJ's protagonist never fought anyone on par with YHVH.

Devil Survivor 1's best feat was beating Lesser YHVH Metatron and Lucifer (depending on New Game+ canonicity).

They mentioned Devil Survivor 2 was a mess to scale to mainline.

Raidou beats Lucifer as his best feat.

Imagine's best feat is beating Satan.

Not sure if IF, or 200X, or the other Summoner series have anything special.
 
Tyranno223 said:
The Diamond Messiahs are the strongest versions of the mainline protags, so it can't be them, and SJ's protagonist never fought anyone on par with YHVH.

Devil Survivor 1's best feat was beating Lesser YHVH Metatron and Lucifer (depending on New Game+ canonicity).

They mentioned Devil Survivor 2 was a mess to scale to mainline.

Raidou beats Lucifer as his best feat.

Imagine's best feat is beating Satan.

Not sure if IF, or 200X, or the other Summoner series have anything special.
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Okay, so… a lot of this is loud and wrong.

The Diamond Realm Messiahs, with the exception of Nanashi, are all different people from differently timelines, who were killed by YHVH.

King of Bel was stated to have fought YHVH, and current Abel is rumored to surpass him.

Devil Survivor isn’t 2 mainline.

Raidou subdued Fury Masakado, take note on the word subdue, as he had no intention of fighting him seriously.

Haven’t seen Imagine.

Tadano can wield a sword only capable of being accessible by being comparable to YHVH.

Tamaki Uchida defeated Hazama, who manipulated and controlled the entire Tree of Life.

Devil Summoner Kyouji defeated Sid Davis and the Demiurge.

SMT NINE defeated their interpretation of Demiurge, who scales above Base Lucifer.

Stephen, bar the Great Reason, is the strongest entity in Megami Tensei on the SMT side.
Scottycj256 said:
it could be possible that Persona MCs are the strongest humans in MegaTen
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Considering if you put Kazuya, Aleph, Demi-Fiend, Tadano, Flynn, and Nanashi in a fight against Naoya, Tatsuya & Maya, Makoto & Kotone, Yu, and Ren, the side that would still be alive are the Persona-users.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Okay, so… a lot of this is loud and wrong.

The Diamond Realm Messiahs, with the exception of Nanashi, are all different people from differently timelines, who were killed by YHVH.

King of Bel was stated to have fought YHVH, and current Abel is rumored to surpass him.

Devil Survivor isn’t 2 mainline.

Raidou subdued Fury Masakado, take note on the word subdue, as he had no intention of fighting him seriously.

Haven’t seen Imagine.

Tadano can wield a sword only capable of being accessible by being comparable to YHVH.

Tamaki Uchida defeated Hazama, who manipulated and controlled the entire Tree of Life.

Devil Summoner Kyouji defeated Sid Davis and the Demiurge.

SMT NINE defeated their interpretation of Demiurge, who scales above Base Lucifer.

Stephen, bar the Great Reason, is the strongest entity in Megami Tensei on the SMT side.

Considering if you put Kazuya, Aleph, Demi-Fiend, Tadano, Flynn, and Nanashi in a fight against Naoya, Tatsuya & Maya, Makoto & Kotone, Yu, and Ren, the side that would still be alive are the Persona-users.
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I did mention Stephen earlier, clarity beyond one word would have helped there.

That being said, I thought the Diamond Messiahs had their own key, as they're from separate timelines, and Stephen outright says he is no longer holding back.

Abel never ended up displaying that power in game, as he only achieves it after beating the final bosses of Day 8, unless the likes of Metatron are on-par with YHVH.

I suppose that's enough derailing from me though.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
Is this why he had an easy time beating Shekinah?
Click to expand...
No, he was just strong.


Tyranno223 said:
I did mention Stephen earlier, clarity beyond one word would have helped there.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you did, you just mentioned the Diamond Realm Messiahs too, when Stephen was more amused than defeated.


Tyranno223 said:
Abel never ended up displaying that power in game, as he only achieves it after beating the final bosses of Day 8, unless the likes of Metatron are on-par with YHVH.
Click to expand...
It’s to reference YHVH’s battles to become the One True God in legend, when Bel was his enemy.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
No, he was just strong.



Yeah, you did, you just mentioned the Diamond Realm Messiahs too, when Stephen was more amused than defeated.



It’s to reference YHVH’s battles to become the One True God in legend, when Bel was his enemy.
Click to expand...
Ah bugger, I was nearly right then. But still, having literally beaten Stephen again yesterday, he does outright say he's going full power, and that he has little control over his output. Even surviving for a second makes them stronger than what their placement in their respective game suggests, especially for the Hero of SMT.

I recognise this, and I recognise the fact Abel was said to surpass his progenitor, but within game, he does not display power on par with such a level until Day 8's conclusion, and even then, in the Naoya route Metatron wasn't slain by his power, and was relatively intact, and appeared relatively okay with the prospective of confronting him again personally (though I realise this is likely overconfidence given it's Metatron).
 
Tyranno223 said:
But still, having literally beaten Stephen again yesterday, he does outright say he's going full power, and that he has little control over his output. Even surviving for a second makes them stronger than what their placement in their respective game suggests, especially for the Hero of SMT.
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They don’t defeat him, he just… stops fighting. After all, even though he admits he is going full power, he simply wants to see their potential.


Tyranno223 said:
Ah bugger, I was nearly right then. But still, having literally beaten Stephen again yesterday, he does outright say he's going full power, and that he has little control over his output. Even surviving for a second makes them stronger than what their placement in their respective game suggests, especially for the Hero of SMT.

I recognise this, and I recognise the fact Abel was said to surpass his progenitor, but within game, he does not display power on par with such a level until Day 8's conclusion, and even then, in the Naoya route Metatron wasn't slain by his power, and was relatively intact, and appeared relatively okay with the prospective of confronting him again personally (though I realise this is likely overconfidence given it's Metatron).
Click to expand...
They go off to fight YHVH off-screen, so.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
They don’t defeat him, he just… stops fighting. After all, even though he admits he is going full power, he simply wants to see their potential.



They go off to fight YHVH off-screen, so.
Click to expand...
I feel like we're having a bit of a circle in regards to the Diamond Realm Messiahs, since you mentioned they're alternate versions of the mainline protagonists, when I agree on that.

That being said I'm not sure we agree on their strength, as from my perspective, they have to be far stronger than their original selves, as they would otherwise have been instantly killed by Stephen.

It was a test yes, but Stephen was willing to kill them, and if they were not even slightly comparable to him, their attacks would have both failed to even phase him enough to believe in their potential, and they would have died instantly to his first attack.
 
Tyranno223 said:
That being said I'm not sure we agree on their strength, as from my perspective, they have to be far stronger than their original selves, as they would otherwise have been instantly killed by Stephen.

It was a test yes, but Stephen was willing to kill them, and if they were not even slightly comparable to him, their attacks would have both failed to even phase him enough to believe in their potential, and they would have died instantly to his first attack.
Click to expand...
I never denied this, though. The Diamond Realm Messiahs gained an Observation boost, that’s the reason why they can even withstand Stephen.
 
Other thing: does this really count as NEP2 if raw information are still present in this real of nothingness ?


Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2): The world of the unconsciousness is a realm of nothingness, where existence as a whole is absent, and nothing but unstructured, raw information resides.
 
I know this question had been done to death, but if there were to be a ranking of the mainline protags based on power and from what has been said, would it be
1. Nanashi
2. Aleph
3. Space Marine
4. Demifiend
5. Nine protagonist
6. Kazuya
I forgot about Flynn and Tamaki
 
Regidian said:
Other thing: does this really count as NEP2 if raw information are still present in this real of nothingness ?


Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2): The world of the unconsciousness is a realm of nothingness, where existence as a whole is absent, and nothing but unstructured, raw information resides.
Click to expand...
Because there’s a difference between the structured, tangible, physical information that composes the material world, and the archetypal formless information of the Atziluth. It’s explained in the first CRT, pretty blatant.
 
Last edited:
DMUA said:
I'm just going to drop by and place a "Play a real Shin Megami Tensei game" here.

Signed, someone who got out of church a few hours ago and does enjoy these games
Click to expand...
Okay. Never mind then.
 
Roun12 said:
Well, we've got CrimsonStarFallen, Elizhaa, The_Divine_Phoenix, and DMUA agreeing. Is that good enough?
Click to expand...
Given that this is a 1-A revision if I understood correctly, we preferably need a few more high-ranking staff members to comment. What does Ultima think?
 
@Ultima_Reality

Are you willing to comment here please? Giving a like is not enough, as I regularly do that for posts that are well-crafted but I do not agree with.
 
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