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Medaka content revision.
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
- Start date
- Status
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Monarch makes a good point. I agree that a seperate key should be made for "Ajimu Skills Medaka," but that it should be banned from use in VS Battles.
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I similarly heavily disagree with Monarch's logic.
Yes, we are a character indexing website, but we are also constructed around feats, standards of evidence, quantifiable and calculable events, reliable and detailed statements and etc.
What Monarch is suggesting is that we ignore all that in favor of giving Medaka a "Low 2-C" Key due to a a single line amidst a wall of text in a joke panel, but then go "Okay this key is forbidden from threads.
It would just create issues and people would try using it anyway, and it goes entirely against the standards of evidence of our website
Yes, we are a character indexing website, but we are also constructed around feats, standards of evidence, quantifiable and calculable events, reliable and detailed statements and etc.
What Monarch is suggesting is that we ignore all that in favor of giving Medaka a "Low 2-C" Key due to a a single line amidst a wall of text in a joke panel, but then go "Okay this key is forbidden from threads.
It would just create issues and people would try using it anyway, and it goes entirely against the standards of evidence of our website
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She is stated to possess those abilities though.Antvasima said:
And ignoring that she has those abilities in favour of "it's a metafictional parody" is dumb.
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It's not that. It's that they are never used, never explained, never clarified, nor ever provided context or mentioned again. they are effectively unproven individual lines amidst a sea of text, of which none is proven.
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Honestly, I agree with Ant and Matt.
Medaka's abilities have never been properly expressed in the series, and as such lack crucial details. Now, if she was using those abilities left and right in the series, even for gags or jokes, that's one thing. But that apparently doesn't ever happen.
As it stands, those abilities are basically Informed Attributes. Combine that with the meta-parody, non serious nature of Medaka Box and especially how they're told to us, it's hard to take it remotely seriously. The fact that the series can be interepted in so many ways, doesn't help either.
Ultimately, a series should 'show', not 'tell'.
Medaka's abilities have never been properly expressed in the series, and as such lack crucial details. Now, if she was using those abilities left and right in the series, even for gags or jokes, that's one thing. But that apparently doesn't ever happen.
As it stands, those abilities are basically Informed Attributes. Combine that with the meta-parody, non serious nature of Medaka Box and especially how they're told to us, it's hard to take it remotely seriously. The fact that the series can be interepted in so many ways, doesn't help either.
Ultimately, a series should 'show', not 'tell'.
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Of course we can list the abilities. The images are in her gallery, and Ajimu's profile links to the Medaka Wiki with all of her abilities.
However, said abilities cannot give them new tiers or be applied in VsDebates.
However, said abilities cannot give them new tiers or be applied in VsDebates.
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Abilities that she has never been implied to have, I am fine with not adding.Antvasima said:
Abilities from the "sea-of-text" that she is stated to have, at least the abilities that are clear what they have to do with, are what I believe should be indexed.
If she has a "create fire" skill, then she should be listed as having fire manipulation. It doesn't matter if we don't get a detailed "can breathe greenish-blue flames from her mouth that can spread up to 20m in all directions from the point of impact (barring strong winds) and can only be put out by virgin blood extracted via a purple wooden straw during the full moon" description and then a panel of her doing it.
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Antvasima said:
OkMatthew Schroeder said:
I am in agreement with both of you then.
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No, you misunderstand. We cannot list Medaka as being literally able to create a universe due to the Create a Universe skill, just like we can't give her Fire Manipulation due to a "Shoot fire" skill.
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How so? If they aren't gonna be used in threads and this is just for indexing, then whats the issue? Monarchs point is that some desciptions don't require elaboration on how for them to be simply listed on the profiles.
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For the fire bit, we totally can and in that example yes we should.Matthew Schroeder said:
For the create universe part, I don't know what to do about it.
Maybe list it as "possibly Pocket Reality Manipulation".
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- Thread starter
- #257
Well if that's the description i don't see why not. The name is Pioneer Flag and the explanantion is "create a universe". While ofc, it doesn't have any AP or any meaning for it to be used in a VS Debate, i mean it doens't affect the opponent at all whether u create 1 or 100 universes. But i still think they should be listed. We could do stomething like "creation" (stated as being able to create a universe and make her words become reality).Matthew Schroeder said:
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Here's what we do:Monarch Laciel said:
Do not list any of it.
None of it is legitimate. None of it fits any of our standards of evidence to be accepted as a legitimate power.
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- Thread starter
- #259
Also from now on can we all just talk about the OP topics? If anyone disagrees with the points, tell me why. And then we just add the rest.
Now @ant "never being stated to have". Medaka in the infamous panel of showing her abilities, talked about the powers that didn't affect Iihiko, so powers that have a clear AP: All Fiction, Scar Dead, Encounter, Mother tasks etc etc, none of them worked, because it's Iihiko. Devil Style, Skill That Makes Skills and Real Eater don't have any AP, you can use them against a normal dude and they still wouldn't acomplish anything (except for Real Eater if the opponent has powers). So whether she uses them against Iihiko or not, it doesn't make a difference, the powers can't do anything to Iihiko because they are "self" powers (mostly).
Besides we know Medaka can copy on just words or seeing. Since she has seen Devil Style, knows about Power Creation and again fought Real Eater (this is kind of arguable, so you may dismiss it if u find Real Eater a bit far fetched), it wouldn't be ok to just assume she didn't get these.
Now @ant "never being stated to have". Medaka in the infamous panel of showing her abilities, talked about the powers that didn't affect Iihiko, so powers that have a clear AP: All Fiction, Scar Dead, Encounter, Mother tasks etc etc, none of them worked, because it's Iihiko. Devil Style, Skill That Makes Skills and Real Eater don't have any AP, you can use them against a normal dude and they still wouldn't acomplish anything (except for Real Eater if the opponent has powers). So whether she uses them against Iihiko or not, it doesn't make a difference, the powers can't do anything to Iihiko because they are "self" powers (mostly).
Besides we know Medaka can copy on just words or seeing. Since she has seen Devil Style, knows about Power Creation and again fought Real Eater (this is kind of arguable, so you may dismiss it if u find Real Eater a bit far fetched), it wouldn't be ok to just assume she didn't get these.
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This whole thread is an exercise in repetition. The reasons as to why the skills cannot be applied to the profile in any way are stated over and over again, and yet they always seem to be ignored.
Why must we give Medaka such special treatment, such deliberate feigned ignorance over our standards, how we treat other verses, what we consider feats? We never list unclear, unproven, unshown stuff in other profiles. We are not listing 600 of them for Medaka.
Why must we give Medaka such special treatment, such deliberate feigned ignorance over our standards, how we treat other verses, what we consider feats? We never list unclear, unproven, unshown stuff in other profiles. We are not listing 600 of them for Medaka.
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- Thread starter
- #261
That's why she should simply have a link to Ajimu's skills. I never said "yeah let's use all 600 of them and translate Become God skill to becoming omnipotent so she kills everyone ahahahaha", just a simple link to the powers it doesn't hurt anyone and it would fit better. Besides for newcomers it would show that Ajimu abililties Medaka can't be used with a few exceptions.
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I think that we should continue to list the abilities that Medaka stated that she used against Iihiko. Similarly, I do not think that we can delete Najimi's entire ability sections simply because they appeared in walls of text. We simply have to be a bit selective in not including abilities that imply a specific tier, given that we are going to continue to list Kumagawa, Medaka, and Najimi as Unknown.
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@Ant
Yeah, I agree. List the abilities / post the pics in a gallery, but do not try to obtain Tier / VersusDebating wields out of them.
Yeah, I agree. List the abilities / post the pics in a gallery, but do not try to obtain Tier / VersusDebating wields out of them.
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btw Matt. You should add yourself to the Opponnents catagory on the Medaka Box page
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Since when someone disagreed with something equals they don't like said something?Walking Strawman said:
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I'm not an Opponent. I have nothing against the series in itself.
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- Thread starter
- #268
Ok so now to the OP topics. It seems ppl have agreed with
1
1.1
2
3. Partly
4
5. Is in debate, but i still think that it that should be a link and for maybe a few exceptions in total none of them are usable.
6.No one is debating it. But @ant it would contradict the series to have Medaka not have that as an ability. Medaka can copy on words alone, so there is no way she doesn't have Power Creation.
7. This part is arguable do what u want.
8. Everyone agrees with this, it should be changed on her profile
9. This is also being debated but my point is. The End can copy stuff without being limited to "medaka's level of existence". Though still u decide on this.
10. This is objectively true, it doesn't matter how weak we take every ability to be still having "power over life and death" is still authority even if it's REALLY weak same for "make all of creation sit down" and "become god skill" gives divinity no matter how much u lowball it. (not saying the abilities should be used, just proving that The End can copy authority and divinity.
11. Again this is true.
1
1.1
2
3. Partly
4
5. Is in debate, but i still think that it that should be a link and for maybe a few exceptions in total none of them are usable.
6.No one is debating it. But @ant it would contradict the series to have Medaka not have that as an ability. Medaka can copy on words alone, so there is no way she doesn't have Power Creation.
7. This part is arguable do what u want.
8. Everyone agrees with this, it should be changed on her profile
9. This is also being debated but my point is. The End can copy stuff without being limited to "medaka's level of existence". Though still u decide on this.
10. This is objectively true, it doesn't matter how weak we take every ability to be still having "power over life and death" is still authority even if it's REALLY weak same for "make all of creation sit down" and "become god skill" gives divinity no matter how much u lowball it. (not saying the abilities should be used, just proving that The End can copy authority and divinity.
11. Again this is true.
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- Thread starter
- #269
Yes when it's clearly biased. Like "medaka said i destroyed the moon but since she didn't do it on panel she lies".Homu Sweet Homu said:
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Just accept it. Everyone has some sense of bias towards something, including you, Matt and me.
But how did you know that Matt hates your fav series based on some post on internet?
But how did you know that Matt hates your fav series based on some post on internet?
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Everyone's got an opinion. Everyone's got a bias. Everyone's got a view point. Just the way it goes.
None of Matt's post indicate that he hates the series. He's just interepts things in it differently and takes things with a grain of salt.
None of Matt's post indicate that he hates the series. He's just interepts things in it differently and takes things with a grain of salt.
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However, just because you don't hate a series doesn't mean you can't be an Opponent to it?
I mean even if Matt or others don't hate it, but constantly on every Content Revision thread is against multiple changes doesn't that classify as being an opponent?
I mean even if Matt or others don't hate it, but constantly on every Content Revision thread is against multiple changes doesn't that classify as being an opponent?
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Mr Common Sense with the common sense and the Goku Black picture :^)
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My fellow infamous Goku Black icon user Rice. xD
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- Thread starter
- #275
And the topic shifted again....Come on! xD
Ok so now to the OP topics. It seems ppl have agreed with
1
1.1
2
3. Partly
4
5. Is in debate, but i still think that there should be a link and and say "maybe a few exceptions in total none of them are usable".
6.No one is debating it. But @ant it would contradict the series to have Medaka not have that as an ability. Medaka can copy on words alone, so there is no way she doesn't have Power Creation.
7. This part is arguable do what u want.
8. Everyone agrees with this, it should be changed on her profile
9. This is also being debated but my point is. The End can copy stuff without being limited to "medaka's level of existence". Though still u decide on this.
10. This is objectively true, it doesn't matter how weak we take every ability to be still having "power over life and death" is still authority even if it's REALLY weak same for "make all of creation sit down" and "become god skill" gives divinity no matter how much u lowball it. (not saying the abilities should be used, just proving that The End can copy authority and divinity).
11. Again this is true.
This is what you should be talking about , srsly come on, is being biased or not rly that much more important?
Ok so now to the OP topics. It seems ppl have agreed with
1
1.1
2
3. Partly
4
5. Is in debate, but i still think that there should be a link and and say "maybe a few exceptions in total none of them are usable".
6.No one is debating it. But @ant it would contradict the series to have Medaka not have that as an ability. Medaka can copy on words alone, so there is no way she doesn't have Power Creation.
7. This part is arguable do what u want.
8. Everyone agrees with this, it should be changed on her profile
9. This is also being debated but my point is. The End can copy stuff without being limited to "medaka's level of existence". Though still u decide on this.
10. This is objectively true, it doesn't matter how weak we take every ability to be still having "power over life and death" is still authority even if it's REALLY weak same for "make all of creation sit down" and "become god skill" gives divinity no matter how much u lowball it. (not saying the abilities should be used, just proving that The End can copy authority and divinity).
11. Again this is true.
This is what you should be talking about , srsly come on, is being biased or not rly that much more important?
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this is how i always interpritted the opponnent thing. I don't hate any series, but if I do find myself on the opposing end of upgrades often or often support downgrades, then I am opposing them. I don't hate Fairy Tail, but I have spent enough time fighting Fairy Tail wank that I definitely would say I am an Opponent of the franchise. I would say I like bleach, but I find myself opposing them more then I am supporting them, so I would be nuetral at best. On another point, I despise Prisma Illya, but I would still call myself a supporter of it since I end up backing it more then I am trying to get it downgradedMr. Common Sense said:
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Yes, and as far as i can tell, the list of supporters and opponents are supposed to show a tendency to back the series and get it upgraded vs working against and getting it downgraded or blocking upgrades. Regardless of my personal hatred of Pisma Illya, I would still call myself a supporter because i end up backing it more then shooting it downHomu Sweet Homu said:
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No, I think that the supporters and opponents lists are strictly about showcasing if you like or dislike a certain series.
But this is derailing the discussion, so let's drop the subject immediately.
But this is derailing the discussion, so let's drop the subject immediately.
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- Thread starter
- #279
Yeah someone answer the OP topics by numbers.Antvasima said:
So as i said ppl have agreed to:
1 1.1 2 3 (partly) 4 5 (the link should be added, she has the powers, use or not it still should be added) 6 (has no one disagreeing up till now) 7 (ppl are finding it a bit arguable) 8 (has everyone agreeing) 9 (some say yes, some no) 10 (is true no matter how you look at it) same for 11.
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