Medaka content revision.

[Sir_Ovens]

Ouch, that last sentence was a little too real Matt.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Even if we, for some reason, were to assume the gigantic wall of text with gag abilities was 100% true, why would creating a universe through a specific skill scale to Medaka's AP?

Im not saying it does. I'm just proving the power does exist. Ppl are saying the powers don't even exist. I mean they just took some shit and put it together and said "i used this, but i don't actually have this" according to these guys.

 

[Xulrev]

@Kaltias

How on earth is removing someone's entire existence from reality a non-sequitur as far as a discussion on concepts are concerned? That's not even a dismissal of my point, that's a failure to define how you're using concepts and shifting posts to prevent giving me your definition of a concept.

I'll have to insist on seeing your definition of a concept, please, if you want to claim my point is a non-sequitur. Existence is probably the most basic concept in human history, so being able to just cut that from the fabric of reality would absolutely be conceptual erasure unless you can re-define the word to fit your argument and not define it as literally everyone else uses it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Fire, you are getting incoherent and rambling.
When did Medaka destroy the moon?Can you show the scene happening?

"Kind of another universe" isn't a feat. The queen of england isn't Country level, she can barely walk at this point.

Just read the scan dude. "AFTER I DESTROYED THE MOON".

And again, she fought in "another universe" how did she cross universes EXCEPT by using ajimus skills? Come on i want to hear your opinion on how this basically room level character went to another universe and defeated it's strongest person.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

They are saying "he erased him on a physical level" which ofc is wrong. As Kumagawa said "zenkichi never happened". But eh.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Cross-dimensional portals / teleportations are not an AP feat. Medaka is Tier 8. Crossing universes doesn't make her Tier 2.

 

[QuasiYuri]

"More details on the relations between the two shogi club members and the student council in the anime."

"Regarding the battle between Medaka Kurokami and the teachers read the novel Medaka Box"

I think it's a good proof are both being canon.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

YuriAkuto
Good Job!

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Cross-dimensional portals / teleportations are not an AP feat. Medaka is Tier 8. Crossing universes doesn't make her Tier 2.

DUDE! Where does medaka show those abilities?!

Srsly you're saying Ajimu's abilities are non existent but u just pulled 2 abilities out of thin air.

Dude i know u hate Medaka Box, but just..stop it, you are SERIOUSLY not making sense at this point.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Mate, you are the one who said Medaka Has Crossing Dimensions Ability First.

 

[Kepekley23]

I think Fire is trying to jumble out that Medaka couldn't have traveled to another universe without copying Ajimu's skills? Not sure

 

[Xulrev]

They are saying "he erased him on a physical level" which ofc is wrong. As Kumagawa said "zenkichi never happened". But eh.

So it's just a basic failure to grasp what factually occurs on-panel and willfully misinterpreting it?

Well that's disappointing and disingenuous.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah, medaka doesn't have any means to travel to another universe, except by using Ajimu's skills.

 

[Antvasima]

After this discussion is over with, it might be a good idea to write a new discussion rule, so we do not have to deal with the subject again.

That said, I wouldn't say that this series has anywhere near as crazy a fanbase as Steven Universe, for example.

 

[Xulrev]

After this discussion is over with, it might be a good idea to write a new discussion rule, so we do not have to deal with the subject again.
That said, I wouldn't say that this series has anywhere near as crazy a fanbase as Steven Universe, for example.

Requiring any sort of strong objection that is related to feats to have at least one source/scan of their evidence would be a good starting place, imho. Cuz a lot of this thread has been 'this never happened' 'yeah huh' 'nuh uh' and acting smug or snide about such nonsubstantive rebuttals.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ikr no one is even arguing the main 11 points of the thread. What do u think of them btw. Yes or No?

 

[Xulrev]

Ikr no one is even arguing the main 11 points of the thread. What do u think of them btw. Yes or No?

I personally am not the biggest fan of Medaka and do not have the knowledge required to actually address all of your points in the OP, honestly. I was just jumping in here because there was some flagrant manipulation of semantics going on in a disingenuous manner to defeat a point without engaging it, that of the conceptual erasure.

I think quite a few of the points, from a cursory glance, are pretty good. Having some explicit scans on-hand and at the ready so you could more readily defend your arguments and having them linked in the body of the OP probably would have been a good move to preempt a lot of the ongoing shitshow that this thread has devolved into, however.

 

[Walking_Strawman]

I am back. I see this hasn't gotten any better. Also, the Medaka Box anime over all isn't canon (at least not beyond Ajimu saying that the anime exists along side the manga, but that's not applicable in most cases), but the Kumagawa one shot is canon, even if the rest of it is not canon. its the adaptation of one of the stories in the Kumagawa spin off, particularly Execute the Student Council.

 

[VoidGoji]

@Xulrev, we use the aristotelic definition of concepts. Anything is just a representation of a concept. Erasing the thing itself will not erase the concept, but erasing the concept will erase the things degined by said concept.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Why are we even considering an upgrade that makes use of a single sentence in a colossal wall of text with gag abilities that are never demonstrated, never elaborated upon in anyway? Why should we feign ignorance over the much lower actual feats the series has?
Medaka's Box as a whole always gets extremely generous reservations.

^

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok but even you can see that this is getting biased af against Medaka Box. I mean tier 8? xD

 

[DodoNova2]

the thread is done?

 

[VoidGoji]

platonic definition***

 

[Firephoenixearl]

W8 feign ignorance over feats? Who said we should do that? But since u want feat, show me an actual feat where it's stated that shows the limit of a power in Medaka Box. Any power u want, All Fiction or anything else. Show me something that states actual limits on a feat and i'll accept it. Feats are cool sure, but not if they are just a lowballed feat. I mean what are the actual feats Azazoth has? It's basically just claims, we accept that. Claims from Medaka Box? What, hell no, there is no way we can accept that, i mean it's Medaka Box, it's making fun of our shounen babes we have to bias it to hell.

 

[Kepekley23]

We don't need to prove something has limits. It's assumed by default. That's why the No Limits Fallacy exists.

 

[Ryukama]

That said, I wouldn't say that this series has anywhere near as crazy a fanbase as Steven Universe, for example.

Nothing against the show, but yeah Steven Universe has the worst fanbase on Earth.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

We don't need to prove something has limits. It's assumed by default. That's why the No Limits Fallacy exists.

Yeah, well the claims say otherwise. There is no way you can just forget about claims if the feats aren't enough. Only casual things have been showed in feats as to (again) parodize shounen often taking this huge leap in power and destructive capabilities and therefore need a huge stage to fight. Both Medaka vs Unzen and Medaka vs Kumagawa and Medaka vs Iihiko took place in the same area (mostly), the enviroment wasn't rly destroyed (i mean it was but not destroyed in the sense of evaporated like it usually happens in shounen). But unzen is not even a warm up for Kumagawa and Iihiko.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Azathoth's feat is dreaming entities like Yog-Sothoth into existence, don't act like Tier 0s are featless.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Azathoth's feat is dreaming entities like Yog-Sothoth into existence, don't act like Tier 0s are featless.

Just a claim, same as how Kumagawa claims to erase all of existence. Why 1 is believeable but the other isn't?

 

[Kepekley23]

You're confusing feats with statements.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You're confusing feats with statements.

I don't think i am. Azazoth was said to have dreamed everything into existence. Is there a scene of him actually waking up and erasing everything? I don't think there is. A similar case with Kumagawa, he was said to erase all of existence with a simple thought, but hasn't "done" it yet. Why is Azazoth statement of "dreaming everything into existence" a feat for him and it's believeable (im not doubting azazoth btw), but Kumagawa's case of "erasing all of existence" is just considered a false clam and therefore not believeable.

 

[ALRF]

Because it's a feat? Not even a statement but a feat that plays a role in the cosmology of Cthulhu?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Because it's a feat? Not even a statement but a feat that plays a role in the cosmology of Cthulhu?

As i said im not doubting Azazoth, but he hasn't done anything yet (to my knowledge at least), he is just there to make everything exist, that was just a statement though. I mean if you just see that creature without any explanation can u understand that everything exists cus of it? No u can't cus he doesn't do anything, there is no "on panel feat", without the author stating that he is the omnipotent of the verse you can't understand that. However in Kumagawa's case even though there is nothing to prove he can't erase all of existence, the statements are takes as false statements.

 

[Kepekley23]

Most of the Cthulhu Mythos is written from the PoV of a third person omniscient narrator, which means the feats are narrated to us objectively from a neutral perspective.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Most of the Cthulhu Mythos is written from the PoV of a third person omniscient narrator, which means the feats are narrated to us objectively from a neutral perspective.

Hmm, doesn't explain why you can believe the author in one but disregard him in the other.

 

[Antvasima]

I just want to clarify that personally I think that the most powerful characters should have unknown tiers. It is possible to interpret the manga in several different ways, due to that it is so diffuse and allegorical.

 

[Antvasima]

That is, setting a definitive tier 8 alone seems inappropriate.

 

[Mr._Common_Sense]

It is probably best to close the thread after everything is settled.

Medaka and other characters from Medaka Box are still capable of fighting characters with higher AP, due to hax. So, at the end of the day Medaka not getting 2-C AP, isn't stopping her from destroying other 2-C or higher tier characters.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I am of the same opinion as Ryu, that a massive list of skills, be they stupid or ridiculously overpowered and off the scale of the verse, are legitimate powers that Medaka has, because her not having the powers that she is listed and (vaguely) described as having is stupid.

Obviously however those powers are all far too vague to extrapolate the majority of them to a versus debate context.

So in my opinion, we have two options, and they are based on one simple question:

Are we a character indexing site primarily, or a debating site primarily?

If it is the former, I believe the best solution would be to say she has those powers and ban the key she has them in from debates, as that key is clearly not suited to debates.

If it is the latter, don't add the powers for being too vague.

That's my thoughts on the matter