Medaka Box All Fiction Upgrades and Downgrades

[Agnaa]

From the thread Causality made, it seems like the consensus is to include both abilities (in this case listing both Causality Manipulation and Law Manipulation).

 

[Antvasima]

Do you think that seems reasonable Agnaa?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Causality Manipulation (it allows kumagawa to erase people, concepts, time, laws and more)

@Agnaa Yes, but to be fair this still makes it look a lot easier on the eye and to understand from an outsiders perspective.

 

[Agnaa]

That does make it easier on the eye, but it also doesn't let us get into the nuance of explaining exactly how it affects those things.

I think something like:

Causality Manipulation (it allows kumagawa to erase people, concepts, time, laws and more)

Combined with a partial rewrite of AF's description in notable attacks/techniques (to explain its old and new feats, linking scans) is the best option.

I won't be able to rewrite AF's description until tomorrow, if no-one else has done it by then.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Agnaa's suggestion seems fine.

 

[Antvasima]

I have unlocked the Misogi Kumagawa page. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That does make it easier on the eye, but it also doesn't let us get into the nuance of explaining exactly how it affects those things.
I think something like:

Causality Manipulation (it allows kumagawa to erase people, concepts, time, laws and more)

Combined with a partial rewrite of AF's description in notable attacks/techniques

Well, obviously we need to explain it in the notable attacks/techniques. I was talking about how to put it in his P&A.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I have unlocked the Misogi Kumagawa page. Tell me here when you are done.

I'll take care of it.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok im done updating Misogi Kumagawa. Feel free to check/evaluate it.

@Agnaa i also added some proof to justify that it's not clear if he still needs line of sight.

 

[MHXX]

Dumb question: Would bookmaker give the affected person Kumagawa's minus too?

 

[Agnaa]

We don't know. It could from Bookmaker's description, and we never hear that it can't, but we never see anyone actually use Kumagawa's minus after being Bookmaker'd.

 

[MHXX]

What if they can.. But don't know about it?

 

[Agnaa]

That's why I say we don't know.

 

[Antvasima]

Is there anything left to do here?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Dumb question: Would bookmaker give the affected person Kumagawa's minus too?

Nah. It makes the affected person a "minus", it doesn't give them one. And abilities were never stated to be in the list of equalized things. And to top it off, Bookmaker by the first definition makes the user equal to a minus, not equal to kumagawa.

But technically it would make sense considering how abnormalities stem from mentality and the mentality changes if you get bookmakered

About "have it" but "don't know it", i mean by that logic they would resist getting bookmakered as bookmaker would give people resistance to sealing so...

 

[Agnaa]

I'm pretty sure it equalizes them to Kumagawa, not just a "minus". That's why it can affect other minuses just as well as normals/abnormals.

And also, abilities are in the list of equalized things. This is stated multiple times, demonstrated when Bookmaker is used on Shiranui, and it's how it's treated on the wiki.

I don't know if Bookmaker's resistance to sealing is enough to be immune to Bookmaker, considering Bookmaker can seal 4D abilities, while Kumagawa's only shown resistance to 3D sealing.

@Ant I don't think there's anything left to do here.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That was the original statement. But like when did it affect other minus? Im pretty sure it has never been used on another minus in terms of mentality. Hansode wasn't a "true" minus, cus she could still feel compassion, valued friendship, cared about others etc. She was nowhere near being a true minus in mentality like Kumagawa, Gagamaru or Shibuki. Tbf the only reason she's a minus at all is cus of her ability.

Not in reverse. As in "what makes you better", but doesn't give you abilities, cus as Ajimu said when she was gonna give Kumagawa her skills "you can hold only 2 of my skills". So there is a compability difference. Not all minus can have all minus skills. 2 out of 7 quadrillion minus are quite the odds.

Yes but it's more like bookmaker being used offensively, so "i can get out cus i have bookmaker". So it not working on bookmaker is like saying Bookmaker > Bookmaker.

This is just a very weird topic to begin with.

 

[Antvasima]

So is it fine if I close this thread?

 

[Agnaa]

Even "less true minuses" like Emukae still have the normal minus resistances. And some minuses like Gagamaru aren't mentally messed up in the same way as other minuses.

I essentially agree here.

I don't really agree here, I thought the reason Kumagawa got out of the seal was because he was experienced with seals like Bookmaker, not because he literally used Bookmaker to escape it somehow.

Agreed

@Ant I think so.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Even "less true minuses" like Emukae still have the normal minus resistances. And some minuses like Gagamaru aren't mentally messed up in the same way as other minuses.
I don't really agree here, I thought the reason Kumagawa got out of the seal was because he was experienced with seals like Bookmaker, not because he literally used Bookmaker to escape it somehow.

We can discuss this on discord xD

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Aww man, I missed out on this.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this then.