MCU Stat check (Spoilers for Captain America: Civil War)

[Gemmysaur]

So I watched Marvel's Civil War and I was impressed by some, disappointed by others.

BLACK PANTHER

Black Panther can be scaled to Winter Soldier and Captain America in combat speed for fighting them roughly on equal grounds. He was also dodging Hawkeye's arrows at roughly 3-5 meters away, though it's most likely aim dodging. He did however catch up to WS riding a motorbike so Superhuman with Subsonic reflexes then? We see that in the trailers.


Cap vs Panther


Black Panther is also atleast Building level methinks for being impervious to bullets. I'm iffy of having him up to Cap's shield in durability as his armor is not solid and rigid like the shield.

He was also flung by Wanda quite some distance into a container and it didn't seem to be a problem for him. Note that the distance is roughly twice that of what's in the picture.

Can calcers check on that please?


Panther fling


Panther fling2


SPIDERMAN

Spiderman was matching Cap and Bucky in reflexes which was a bit of a disappointment considering the previous movie incarnations.

Spidey was also on the losing end against Cap in combat due to massive skill gap, though he didn't seem to be particularly hurt or anything from the fight.


Inexperienced Spidey

He wasn't even able to anchor himself to the ground despite being able to stick to vertical surfaces easily.


Panther fling3



Inexperienced Spidey2


He's still pretty strong though. You can see him catching Bucky's metal arm punch with big wind up like it's nothing. He was even talking on and on while it happened.


Bridge catcher


Bridge catcher2

He also caught an airplane bridge. The one that connects the airport to the plane for the passengers to board.

Durability-wise, he's not exceptional. He'd probably roughly War Machine. He was taken out by Antman's Giantman form.


Spidey swatted



Spidey swatted2


Spidey swatted3


On that note, War Machine scales from Iron Man and Iron Man is CB for tanking hits from a weakened Thor, and MCB for tanking hits from Hulk.

Hulk was scaled from Thor's MCB feat (Thor's bashing bifrost) which is not an AP feat.

We then get to Thor who methinks we should have at Building level normally; Building+ with lightning-charged strikes; Unknown, possibly MCB (or idk) with lightning bolts.

Going on, since Hulk made Thor bleed on his nose apparently (can anyone confirm that? As I have not seen any blood on Thor's nose, and was more like he was checking if there is any), that would make Hulk MCB in AP, but that's a bit of a stretch considering his current best feat is one-punching a leviathan which iirc is Large? Building level. Also, that was weakened Thor in the Avengers.

On-topic, how much did Spidey tank with that forearm hitting him?

FALCON

Falcon was keeping up with Iron Man and War Machine in a dogfight. How fast would that put him at? On that note, WM is at subsonic only in his profile for scaling to Iron Man. His flight speed was not mentioned.

ANTMAN (GIANT FORM)

Antman was tossing around airplane wings, stepping on cars and what struck me was particularly noteworthy, was tossing War Machine quite some distance. It didn't knock him out though. It doubles a strength feat for Spidey as well for catching WM with webbing and stopping him from hitting a plane.

Giantman also tanked WM's missiless on his face. He was pushed by Vision bumping him hard and it fell him on his back, but what beat him is arguably IM and WM hitting him in the face at the same time via bullrush punch while Spidey was wrapping his legs in webbing by spinning around it. Arguably because he stated just prior to jumping giant that he can't hold it long, that he'd lose consciousness after a while and that he was able to shrink down to normal size before passing out.


Giant toss


Missile face


Giant toss2


U WOT M8?


Giant toss4


Giant toss3

WINTER SOLDIER & CAPTAIN AMERICA

Bucky was particularly impressive in this movie. His metal arm had enough power to pull IM's arm back from firing a repulsor beam on his face, and was strong enough to crush the hand like Thor did with IM's forearm.

No, he is not on par with Thor's strength if that's what you're thinking.

He also was, with his metal arm, damaging the chest plate, particularly the arc reactor and was to succeed in doing so too had IM not fire the Unibeam that severed Bucky's metal arm entirely.

Cap was racking up feats as well since he was able to hold IM from flying away somehow with one arm, then with the shield, damaging the foot propulsion. He was also repeatedly bashing IM's helmet with enough force to allow him to rip it off his head (yes, the entire helmet, not just the faceplate) and he took IM out by hitting the chestplate with enough force to crack it open, leaving the shield standing upright stabbed inside the chestplate.


Shaking hands


Don't leave me


Damaging Iron Man's foot propulsor


Bucky's arm strength


Tanking blows


Bucky's grip strength


Bucky disarmed


Bucky's grip strength2

Cap and Bucky were most amazing in this movie, durability-wise. They were both getting hit by IM in the face, and body with punches. IM was also particularly wanting to kill Bucky so there's that.

Also worthy of note that Friday was commenting that IM can't fight Cap at all in a fist fight.

It's seen in the fight where IM was getting dempsey rolled by

Iron Man getting chestised for his actions...hehe pu

Cap till he fired a repulsor.

TL;DR:

Iron Man bumped down to Small Building to Small Building+.

Thor bumped down to Building level physically, Building+ with charged hammer, Unknown with lightning bolt.


Bashing Iron Man's ego

Hulk bumped down to Building+ to Large Building maybe. Discussion please.

Small Building Spiderman with Subsonic movement.


Apparently, Iron Man lost weight



Cap got cappercut

Falcon and War Machine bumped up to IM's flight speed maybe?

Wall level Black Panther with Superhuman speed and Subsonic reflexes and Building level durability.

Building (atleast) level Giantman.

DISCUSS?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Bump.

 

[Legion350]

This really cool

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Thor and Hulk have been discussed previously multiple times, and their current ranking is a consensus.

 

[Legion350]

Does iron man get downgraded?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Thor and Hulk have been discussed previously multiple times, and their current ranking is a consensus.

So they stay as they are, what about the other guys in this post?

 

[LordXcano]

Even if Bifrost isn't his AP feat the statement about him being able to fragment that city thing in Ultron would still put him at City level even with the low-end of its mass. Although this would really only scale to Hulk and maybe Ultron.

(keep in mind the fragment bit, not the actual destruction amped by Tony and the vibranium)

Anyway I think there was a scene where Scarlet Witch blocked an explosion from point-blank so that could be Super-Hypersonic reactions for everyone that was on-par with her speed wise.

I'll be doing a calc on the bullet catch later since the surface area ratios should give some good results.

 

[LordXcano]

Bullet catch only got Wall level RIP.

 

[Legion350]

Bullet catch only got Wall level RIP.

Who caught a bullet?

 

[LordXcano]

http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/mcu-iron-man-blocks-a-bullet.35609/

It was just a block though, not reaction based

 

[Legion350]

http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/mcu-iron-man-blocks-a-bullet.35609/

It was just a block though, not reaction based

I was hoping for super sonic reflexes.

 

[LordXcano]

Well, as I said, AFAIK Scarlet Witch blocked an explosion so that could be used.

 

[Legion350]

Who would it scale to?

 

[LordXcano]

Everyone who could keep up with Scarlet Witch I presume.

 

[Legion350]

Everyone who could keep up with Scarlet Witch I presume.

Did you do the scarlett witch calc?

 

[LordXcano]

No I'm just saying it'd be Super-Hypersonic reactions because explosions move that fast

 

[Legion350]

Oh my mistske.

 

[Antvasima]

I thought that Thor simply hit a vibranium core, which set off a chain reaction explosion that destroyed the city?

 

[Legion350]

I thought that Thor simply hit a vibranium core, which set off a chain reaction explosion that destroyed the city?

I think he is talking about how iron man said he could fragment the city. Iron man used a heat seal to help vaporize sokovia.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

I saw the movie yesterday and there are really a lot of problems with the MCU stats.Cap and Bucky were able to take multiple serious hits from Iron Man and damage his armor while a few movies back Iron Man's armor was taking his from freaking Thor.

Anyway i have to go now.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. The regular inconsistencies within the comicbooks seem to strongly influence the movies.

Perhaps we should largely go by feats rather than power-scaling for cases that seem like extreme outliers?

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

I know that comicbooks tend to be super inconsistent for various reasons but i don't feel that we should completely exclude powerscaling here (even though it causes problems)

Most of Thor's and Hulk's feats are Building level (so far 3 decent feat of the verse i have calced to be on that level),the bifrost bridge is a durability feat and Thor seems to be able to take more damage that what he can cause.

Black Panther's durability is iffy.Vibranium is almost unbreachable and deflects kinetic energy (probably to an extent) but the Panther is still a low level superhuman so with enough force the sudden acceleration would still hurt his internal organs.

I think Spiderman should be around Room level AP and Durability (for me Small Building level is for the high 9-A characters while Room level is for low to mid)

Giant Antman wasn't really that fast and his own mass (assuming that he gained mass when increasing in size) wouldn't make him building level so i think that Small Building level durability and AP should be fine (took hits from Iron Man and War Machine ,also almost KOed Spiderman)

Captain should be Wall level+ since his feats indicate high wall level AP.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems reasonable. I just didn't want to scale Captain America from Iron Man, after Iron Man had been scaled from Thor or Hulk.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

AP wise Iron Man isn't scalable from Thor and Hulk since when he fough Thor his arc reactor was at 400% capacity and the Hulkbuster armor has around 9 arc reactors which is 900% of his usual power.

Durability is another story, personally i feel that Iron Man's durability has dramatically decreased after Irom Man 3.In the first Iron Man film he could tank a hit from a tank and in Avengers survived hits from Mjolnir but in Iron Man 3 his armor was disassembled when hit by a truck ,in Civil War it was damaged by cars falling into him and of course we shouldn't forget all the damage Cap and Bucky did.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Perhaps separate keys for the more recent movies might be an idea? The different movie writers seem to have similar habits of contradicting each other to their comics counterparts, although obviously far less in scale.

Then again, we use the higher end feats, not the lower end feats, to scale for the comics versions of the Marvel characters, so perhaps we should do the same for their movie counterparts?

Like I mentioned, the problems appear if people start to demand that we scale Captain America from Iron Man, or similar.

 

[Legion350]

Yes. Perhaps separate keys for the more recent movies might be an idea? The different movie writers seem to have similar habits of contradicting each other to their comics counterparts, although obviously far less in scale.

Then again, we use the higher end feats, not the lower end feats, to scale for the comics versions of the Marvel characters, so perhaps we should do the same for their movie counterparts?

Like I mentioned, the problems appear if people srsrt to demand that we scale Captain America from Iron Man, or similar.

Could cap be scaled from spiderman?

 

[Naitez]

Are you guys forgetting that everyone in the airport scene was holding back? Besides, Iron Man wasn't even using the armor that went against Vibranium Ultron, the same one that was in the vicinity of the destruction of Sokovia.

 

[LordXcano]

I think we should say that the justification for City-Block Iron Man is being hit by a weakened Thor and I also doubt that Thor was going all out so I don't know why that was put there in the first place. Really only his Hulkbuster should be scaled that high.

Plus considering my calc for the bullet catch was using a makeshift/bare bones Iron Man glove and was literally only 0.003 tons away from Small Building I don't see a problem with scaling Cap to Small Building from the fights we've seen here.

Bucky in particular since he has an explicit cybernetic enhancement.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Thor was explicitly stated to be weakened in the tie-in comic and was very much implied in the Avengers movie so scaling Iron Man from anything beyond building level hammer whacking is iffy methinks.

Also, IM absorbed the lightning and was fighting near 5 timea his own capacity given that IM having more energy = more dakka via repulsor and more bullrush speed via repulsor.

Had Thor really been aiming to kill and at full strength, he'd have shot IM down with lightning as thick as Mjolnir's head.

IM having what methinks should be building level AP and Durability, would coincide with him doing nothing more than ruffle Thor's hair and rivaling Hulk by adding 8 more reactors and sacrificing speed for strength since energy source = dakka for Stark.

That would make Cap with shield and Bucky with arm small building for damaging IM after multiple blows methinks.

Spidey is physically stronger than Cap. Cap just has so much higher combat proficiency that he can throw above his weight class via spins, pull Spidey around via body spins and outfighting IM in h2h by a large margin that Friday commented on it.

 

[Legion350]

Thor was explicitly stated to be weakened in the tie-in comic and was very much implied in the Avengers movie so scaling Iron Man from anything beyond building level hammer whacking is iffy methinks.

Also, IM absorbed the lightning and was fighting near 5 timea his own capacity given that IM having more energy = more dakka via repulsor and more bullrush speed via repulsor.

Had Thor really been aiming to kill and at full strength, he'd have shot IM down with lightning as thick as Mjolnir's head.

IM having what methinks should be building level AP and Durability, would coincide with him doing nothing more than ruffle Thor's hair and rivaling Hulk by adding 8 more reactors and sacrificing speed for strength since energy source = dakka for Stark.

That would make Cap with shield and Bucky with arm small building for damaging IM after multiple blows methinks.

Spidey is physically stronger than Cap. Cap just has so much higher combat proficiency that he can throw above his weight class via spins, pull Spidey around via body spins and outfighting IM in h2h by a large margin that Friday commented on it.

So the stats stay the same for Cap and Bucky?

 

[LordXcano]

He was proposing that Cap and Bucky be scaled to Small Building from Iron Man but Iron Man's durability be downgraded as the Thor scaling is incorrect. Which is basically what I'm proposing as well.

 

[Legion350]

I was just saying they are already 9-A

 

[Naitez]

I'm actually proposing for Cap and Bucky to be downgraded to Wall Level+ since what we see doesn't exactly match a Room level feat.

 

[Gemmysaur]

My bad. We should really standardize whether we should use Room or Small Building level.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with downgrading Iron Man's durability, although I agree with Kkapoios that Captain America and Bucky have only seemed to display Wall level feats apart from damaging Iron Man with several blows, so the power-scaling seems unreliable.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Well Cap did need multiple hits to do any damage and none of it with his own hands but his shield (see him whacking IM in the face with the shield), Bucky's arm is stronger than Cap though, seemingly anyway.

 

[Naitez]

Depends on which armor where Iron Man's durability lays. All of the Iron Man 3 armors were basically pumped out with barely any testing but his final armor in Avengers Age Of Ultron withstood being near the destruction of Sokovia. Also, Iron Man wasn't really damaged by those cars falling on up and Cap and Bucky has to put a significant amount of effort into breaking his arc reactor.

 

[Gemmysaur]

The armor's durability can be seen on how bulky it is, proof with IM2 armor that got whipped and IM3 prototypes.

The armor also seems to be thinner near the reactor (the reactor is bulky, we saw that everytime it was being pulled out before, maybe less so now) and the hands since it stores weapons and the tech needed for it (his watch glove didn't have a repulsor ray in CA:CW).

 

[LordXcano]

Well it's not exactly like we're gonna see Captain America punch down a house. That'd be a bit weird and seems more like something they'd portray Hulk doing.

Besides that I don't know when scaling someone 1 tier up has ever been an issue? I mean, just look at DBZ characters. None of the heroes ever just straight up destroy a planet, but we don't keep them at Small Planet level becuase the scaling would be wonky then.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, until recently Dragon Ball was pretty consistent with the power-scaling, whereas Marvel historically only cares about if a story is entertaining, not if the relative power levels make any sense.