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MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread

If we go by other stuff from that guy, Hulk apparently didn't get much physically stronger on Sakaar:
main-qimg-4b7966855b1dcab9e7c3923fb28855cc-lq
 
Dinobot1996 said:
If we go by other stuff from that guy, Hulk apparently didn't get much physically stronger on Sakaar:
main-qimg-4b7966855b1dcab9e7c3923fb28855cc-lq
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I mean why would he? hulk strength is based off rage it’s not like he had workout montages like Thor he just took combat training from valk and hulk was calmer then we’ve ever seen him before until he fought Thor in the arena as he was having casual conversations and playing around after their fight
 
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spideys web shooters in infinity war are called upgraded stark tech by Russo The same stuff withstood attacks from the mark 50 shot out by the power stone

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9419420-2b675122-5314-411a-9da6-b8301bddb543.jpeg


He took an attack from cull and stunned him he also stopped a taxi thrown by cull overpoweres in endgame to
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Russo said their favorite part about spidey is how he’s almost as strong as the hulk

Spidey nano suit is stated same ball park as mark 50 tony built him that suit to protect him with a father son relationship in mind and ock damages it NWH writers thought the mark 50 wouldn’t be to much for spidey as the original script of NWH had electro gain one

So can someone tell me how base rocket raccoon and every member of the guardians is mountain level in stats but spidey who him and his villains have performed multiple feats is building level💀
 
darkphantom9805 said:
spideys web shooters in infinity war are called upgraded stark tech by Russo The same stuff withstood attacks from the mark 50 shot out by the power stone

9417064-ezgif.com-crop7.gif

9419420-2b675122-5314-411a-9da6-b8301bddb543.jpeg


He took an attack from cull and stunned him he also stopped a taxi thrown by cull overpoweres in endgame to
9192226-ezgif-1-763b8de6bd.gif

8320035-ezgif-2-d7aa2d1417.gif

Russo said their favorite part about spidey is how he’s almost as strong as the hulk

Spidey nano suit is stated same ball park as mark 50 tony built him that suit to protect him with a father son relationship in mind and ock damages it NWH writers thought the mark 50 wouldn’t be to much for spidey as the original script of NWH had electro gain one

So can someone tell me how base rocket raccoon and every member of the guardians is mountain level in stats but spidey who him and his villains have performed multiple feats is building level💀
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Blame No Way Home in making Doc Ock outright overpower the Iron Spider suit.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Blame No Way Home in making Doc Ock outright overpower the Iron Spider suit.
Click to expand...
Guess Thor is fodder because Thanos and gorr overpowered him ?

That’s how scaling works it’s a feat for ock if he damaged it or no

You can’t actually tell me the guardians have consistent mountain level feats but when I can pull out spidey feats left and right he gets building level is being fair
 
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darkphantom9805 said:
Guess Thor is fodder because Thanos and gorr overpowered him ?

That’s how scaling works it’s a feat for ock if he damaged it or no

You can’t actually tell me the guardians have consistent mountain level feats but when I can pull out spidey feats left and right he gets building level is being fair
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That's a terrible comparison considering Doc Ock was from an entirely different continuity before he was forced into the MCU for Fanservice: The Movie.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but am I right in saying all the issues with Tier 6 Iron Spider come from the characters from the other LA Spidey films? Or is there other stuff that contradicts it? Not necessarily saying Iron Spider should be that strong, I just wanna know if there’s further context I’m missing.

Also somewhat related, but should the Raimiverse and ASM characters be “at least 8-C”? Doc Ock scales to the Iron Spider, and iirc the nanotech that took control of Ock’s tentacles (which was later transferred back to Peter) was the entire Iron Spider suit. Maybe it would mess up the Green Goblin scaling though since Peter was maskless throughout both of their fights.
 
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Ghengiroo115 said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but am I right in saying all the issues with Tier 6 Iron Spider come from the characters from the other LA Spidey films? Or is there other stuff that contradicts it? Not necessarily saying Iron Spider should be that strong, I just wanna know if there’s further context I’m missing.

Also somewhat related, but should the Raimiverse and ASM characters be “at least 8-C”? Doc Ock scales to the Iron Spider, and iirc the nanotech that took control of Ock’s tentacles (which was later transferred back to Peter) was the entire Iron Spider suit. Maybe it would mess up the Green Goblin scaling though since Peter was maskless throughout both of their fights.
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Tier 6 Iron Spidey would make it an outlier for both the Raimiverse and Webbverse combined
 
Propellus said:
Tier 6 Iron Spidey would make it an outlier for both the Raimiverse and Webbverse combined
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Oh absolutely, the two questions only really work separately and I didn’t structure it very well. My thought process was that if Tier 6 Iron Spider was consistent outside of NWH then we could maybe just ignore that movie scaling-wise, since it would only be characters from entirely different continuities that mess things up.
 
They way I see it saying the iron spider doesn’t scale without an official statement is head canon

Like we have WoG it scales + it’s the exact same tech + tony made both suits at the same time + intent by tony that it was built to protect him from dangerous threats + wakanda files imply it has vibranium in it + his gear is called upgraded stark tech

so why build a suit thousands of times weaker then his own? Where is the logic in that?

Like there no in universe reason at all that you can explain with any reasoning on why Tony would do that he made the rescue armor for pepper why would he make other people he cares for armor that scales to his but Spidey nah thousands of times weaker let’s be real people
 
For Tier 6 Iron Spider, I personally think that there's a lot that contradicts it as well other than just outlier stuff. Obviously, we would have to downscale the base Spider-Men from the Iron Spider, as Tobeys Peter could keep up with Doc Oc, who could keep up with the Iron Spider, so all of the base Spider-Men would just downscale the Iron Spider. This brings in some problems.

Spider-Man lost to Vulture. At that time, the most powerful Iron Man armors were at most 6-C with their most powerful attacks. Vultures tech being thousands of times stronger than Tonys doesn't really make sense. Also, Vulture used tech powered by chitari technology. The same chitari technology that Captain America (an 8-C) could shake off attacks from no problem. But suddenly Vulture manages to improve that alien tech by trillions of times in power? Either Vulture needs an Extraordinary Genius intelligence rating or his tech just isn't High 6-B

Mysterio's group was full of ex-stark employees. One of the head scientists who I forgot the name of said it was impossible to build an arc reactor even with a lab full of the best technology & scientists around, even admitting that he's nowhere near the intelligence of Tony Stark, yet he was able to make drones as powerful as Tonys most powerful armors during his time at Start Industries? At the time of those drones being made, Tonys most powerful suits were only about Low 7-C. He's nowhere near the intelligence of Tony Stark, but he made drones millions of times stronger than the suits? Hell, these drones were made before the hulkbuster, if they were so unbelivebly powerful then why didn't Tony just use these guys as the Hulkbuster plan? Mysterios drones being comparable to Tonys best armors has so many contradictions that I could go on forever.

In NWH, Electro was f*cking nutting at the sheer power of a mark 8-45 arc reactor (it is an 8 - 45 arc reactor, it's almost identical to those arc reactors in appearance and by the time of the Mark 50 he uses nanotech & doesn't rely on arc reactors anymore) and also considered just the NYC power grid as incredibly powerful, which is at most like, 8-A. The power from some electrical lines gave Electro enough power to fight off Sandman & Peter at the same time, and Peter had to pull them down in order to weaken him as fighting him head-on wasn't an option for him given how powerful he was at the time. This was off of some electrical cables that typically contain enough electricity to power homes and stuff, but that's about it.

And this isn't even talking about how big of an outlier this is for the Raimi & ASM universes this is. Green Goblins weaponry narritavley are supposed to be like, standard battlefield weapons. Like, on the level of RPGs and normal grenades and stuff. It would make no sense for these missiles & bombs to be litteraly thousands of times stronger than every nuke on the planet combined. Not only that, but Oscorps tech failed to impress the military. Imagine how that conversation went down.

"Wow, Osborne. You've made handheld devices with the kinetic energy billions of times more powerful than the most powerful nukes on the planet and a serum that can enhance people to those levels of strength. Yeah, we're not impressed, we're cutting your funding"

And the Amazing Spider-Man series only makes this worse. Lizard got hurt by bullets. He got damaged badly by a shotgun. He struggled to rip through a metal wall. Peter struggled to take down a group of NYC police officers. He struggled to break through a trucks front windshield. This dude was 9-B prior to No Way Home.

Also I can easily spin this the other was and say that MCU Spider-Man is only Wall level. He got hurt by a ceiling falling on him, which was calced at Wall level, and he struggled to pick it back up, with the ceiling only weighing like 6 tons. Peter struggled to hold onto the outside of a plane. He struggled to hold back a bell tower. He was knocked out by a Small Building level attack from a train. Bullets from the Stark Drones can harm Peter, but they couldn't get past a medival metal shield. I didn't know they made midevial shields out of vibranium. A single shot from a rocket launcher completley destroyed a drone, the same drones that can withstand multiple attacks that can harm Spider-Man. High 6-B rocket launcher? Or 9-B Spider-Man?

I do think that Peter is a lot stronger than he was when he faught Captain America and should scale higher than 8-C, I can even see arguements for High 8-C or 8-B, but saying that he's Thanos level even though he got effortlessly overpowered and stomped by Thanos in Infinity War is dumb and doesn't fit with anything established in the MCU. Let's be real people
 
Yeah if Iron Spider was Tier 6 there’s no way it should be allowed to scale to the Raimiverse or ASM characters. However there might still be an argument to be made that if we consider NWH to just be crossover shenanigans then we could scale the Iron Spider to later Iron Man tech. Also I could genuinely see speed scaling to Thanos if we end up doing this, as while AP stuff is shaky he does blatantly attack Thanos multiple times before he got grabbed.

Also I just checked the MCU wiki to make sure there was no notable usage of the suit outside of the Thanos movies and NWH (there wasn’t btw), and apparently the NWH Iron Spider was a recreation made by Peter and not the original? Idk if this matters or the exact details of this, but it could potentially be used to hand-wave the NWH stuff as Peter just making a physically less powerful suit.
 
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ThePrimalHunter said:
Spider-Man lost to Vulture. At that time, the most powerful Iron Man armors were at most 6-C with their most powerful attacks. Vultures tech being thousands of times stronger than Tonys doesn't really make sense. Also, Vulture used tech powered by chitari technology. The same chitari technology that Captain America (an 8-C) could shake off attacks from no problem. But suddenly Vulture manages to improve that alien tech by trillions of times in power? Either Vulture needs an Extraordinary Genius intelligence rating or his tech just isn't High 6-B
Click to expand...
SpiderMan was stated to get stronger between films that was a much younger SpiderMan then his emotions also change his powers he was described as having an endless totem of strength to call upon

ThePrimalHunter said:
In NWH, Electro was f*cking nutting at the sheer power of a mark 8-45 arc reactor (it is an 8 - 45 arc reactor, it's almost identical to those arc reactors in appearance and by the time of the Mark 50 he uses nanotech & doesn't rely on arc reactors anymore) and also considered just the NYC power grid as incredibly powerful, which is at most like, 8-A. The power from some electrical lines gave Electro enough power to fight off Sandman & Peter at the same time, and Peter had to pull them down in order to weaken him as fighting him head-on wasn't an option for him given how powerful he was at the time. This was off of some electrical cables that typically contain enough electricity to power homes and stuff, but that's about it.
Click to expand...
This doesn’t matter as the boost electro gets might be better then when tony had it like cell from db absorbed a bunch of fodder humans but ginormous power was gained in concept stuff even the writers didn’t think the mark 50 was to much to handle for the spiders

ThePrimalHunter said:
And this isn't even talking about how big of an outlier this is for the Raimi & ASM universes this is. Green Goblins weaponry narritavley are supposed to be like, standard battlefield weapons. Like, on the level of RPGs and normal grenades and stuff. It would make no sense for these missiles & bombs to be litteraly thousands of times stronger than every nuke on the planet combined. Not only that, but Oscorps tech failed to impress the military. Imagine how that conversation went down.
Click to expand...
Feat for his weapons? And they aren’t standard battle field wepons he has highly advanced weponary he literally vape 3 humans with a single punkin what kind of standard battlefield grenade do you know does that? They also have statements backing them up and he also upgrades to stark tech in NWH the back vault door dock ock effortlessly ripped open was designed to withstand heavy tank fire and goblin has scaling so that’s wrong nothing about him or the villains are standard anything

ThePrimalHunter said:
And the Amazing Spider-Man series only makes this worse. Lizard got hurt by bullets. He got damaged badly by a shotgun. He struggled to rip through a metal wall. Peter struggled to take down a group of NYC police officers. He struggled to break through a trucks front windshield. This dude was 9-B prior to No Way Home.
Click to expand...
Picking anti feats are we hulk was hurt by bullets Thor was hurt by attacks that didn’t even destroy or flip a car over Thor was staggered by a small rubber ball the hulk buster was pierced by a street poll Thanos couldn’t kill human tier tony with a strike to the face from with no on armor you can go on and on every single live action character has anti feats or low showing that’s just how it is don’t be that guy if we are you better start downgrading everyone cause they all have anti feats and low showings

ThePrimalHunter said:
Also I can easily spin this the other was and say that MCU Spider-Man is only Wall level. He got hurt by a ceiling falling on him, which was calced at Wall level, and he struggled to pick it back up, with the ceiling only weighing like 6 tons. Peter struggled to hold onto the outside of a plane. He struggled to hold back a bell tower. He was knocked out by a Small Building level attack from a train. Bullets from the Stark Drones can harm Peter, but they couldn't get past a medival metal shield. I didn't know they made midevial shields out of vibranium. A single shot from a rocket launcher completley destroyed a drone, the same drones that can withstand multiple attacks that can harm Spider-Man. High 6-B rocket launcher? Or 9-B Spider-Man?
Click to expand...
99% of mcu has low showings trying to single out is not how it works or you do it to everyone
ThePrimalHunter said:
I do think that Peter is a lot stronger than he was when he faught Captain America and should scale higher than 8-C, I can even see arguements for High 8-C or 8-B, but saying that he's Thanos level even though he got effortlessly overpowered and stomped by Thanos in Infinity War is dumb and doesn't fit with anything established in the MCU. Let's be real people
Click to expand...
nobody said he was thanos level let’s be real you didn’t read the conversation at all and singling out anti feats for characters but don’t do it to other characters is a bad thing iron spider is flat out stated to scale using common sense it scales tony specifically gave armor to people here cares about like pepper rescue armor which scales tony cares for Peter On a Father son relationship level he built the iron spider to protect him from dangerous threats iron spider was implied to have vibranaum in it meaning unless you can provide and official statement of it not scaling everything you say is head canon

Like for you to try this hard and lowball spidey go do it to the mountain level guardians of the galaxy who in their right mind thinks rocket raccoon base being mountain level is consistent?
 
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In the Loki TV show, during the finale of Episode 2 in Season 1, Sylvie launches numerous reset charges into the Sacred Timeline, causing multiple branches and creating a chaotic series of Nexus events. Her plan was to create enough chaos and distractions to draw the Time Variance Authority (TVA) away from their headquarters, allowing her to infiltrate it.

This means Sylvie SENT "people" or "items" from the "SACRED TIMELINE" to the "VOID" we have a future storyline in our hands.

Renslayer told Mr. M that she had other people working for her, so Paradox?

And the TVA Agent that was in the "This Friday" trailer she "PRUNE" Infinity Stones and sent them to the Void? Could this be the reason there is a Sling Ring with the time stone and Reality Stone in the Void?

How well connected is this movie going to be to the MCU Loki since the costumes look different? I assume this movie will take place POST-LOKI and Paradox is Mobius replacement?
 
vsbattles.com

Loki Variant HAx Addition

I'm currently rewatching Loki preparing for Deadpool & Wolverine on Friday - -I found the following- God of Mischieft Key: Teleportation (Utilized teleportation through hmagic, as demonstrated during his combat with Sylvie. Teleported in combat to evade her attacks and reposition himself...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
darkphantom9805 said:
SpiderMan was stated to get stronger between films that was a much younger SpiderMan then his emotions also change his powers he was described as having an endless totem of strength to call upon
Click to expand...
I agree that he gets stronger, but he also got his ass handed to him by an 8-C. Unless you really think that Peter is getting trillions of times stronger each movie. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so if you're claiming he gets trillions of times stronger each movie, you better have some good proof to back that up rather than just some vague statement made by god knows who.
darkphantom9805 said:
This doesn’t matter as the boost electro gets might be better then when tony had it like cell from db absorbed a bunch of fodder humans but ginormous power was gained in concept stuff even the writers didn’t think the mark 50 was to much to handle for the spiders
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"might be better"

You're litteraly making stuff up now in order to fit with your want to highball Spider-Man up. Where would Electro even be getting the extra power? The arc reactor only holds a set amount of power that he can absorb and use. Could you explain how & why he would be getting more power from it then there is power in the arc reactor without making up fanfiction to justify it? The cell comparison isn't super important as that's a diffrent verse with diffrent established rules.

Also the mark 50 thing didn't make it into the movie, stop trying to justify your arguements with stuff that didn't happen. He & the other 3 Spider-Men got godstomped by an Electro that was using old Iron Man tech. If they wanted to display "yes, Spider-Man is Mark 50 level", they would've put the Mark 50 arc reactor in the movie. They didn't, thus he isn't. Also, cool, some writers think that he could do it. Does he actually do it?

Feats are more important than statements. If a statement backs up a feat, then sure, it can be used. But this doesn't. And if it doesn't we use the feat, not the statement. What we actually see on-screen is more important than whatever the director says. Death of the author and all. They got godstomped by a far weaker arc reactor, this statement goes directly against what we saw on-screen, so it can't be used.


That's a great counterargument to the drone point that I brought up btw.
darkphantom9805 said:
Feat for his weapons? And they aren’t standard battle field wepons he has highly advanced weponary he literally vape 3 humans with a single punkin what kind of standard battlefield grenade do you know does that? They also have statements backing them up and he also upgrades to stark tech in NWH the back vault door dock ock effortlessly ripped open was designed to withstand heavy tank fire and goblin has scaling so that’s wrong nothing about him or the villains are standard anything
Click to expand...
You misunderstood what I was trying to say. They were meant to be weapons for the military, the military was funding them and was going to use them as their standard weaponry. They were going to have soldiers with pumpkin bombs on the battlefield. Do you really think that the military would look at High 6-B weapons and say "yeah these are mid af, we're not impressed" and go on to drop Oscorp as a contractor? If this tech really was that powerful, the military would grab that shit instantly and start reverse-engineering it to find out how to make the most powerful weapons to have ever existed. And plus, the most amount of damage this stuff does is destroy things like cars and bridges, not entire cities.

Also when did Goblin ever upgrade to Stark tech? There was never a scene of him stealing the tech or him making equipment out of Stark tech. Even if he did, Happy doesn't have access to the High 6-B nanostuff. He only has access to old Stark tech, so even if Goblin used it, he's like Low 7-C at best, which is still inconsistant as a Low 7-C arc reactor easily demolished 3 Spider-Men at once.
darkphantom9805 said:
Picking anti feats are we hulk was hurt by bullets Thor was hurt by attacks that didn’t even destroy or flip a car over Thor was staggered by a small rubber ball the hulk buster was pierced by a street poll Thanos couldn’t kill human tier tony with a strike to the face from with no on armor you can go on and on every single live action character has anti feats or low showing that’s just how it is don’t be that guy if we are you better start downgrading everyone cause they all have anti feats and low showings


99% of mcu has low showings trying to single out is not how it works or you do it to everyone
Click to expand...
I find it super funny that you're saying this, because you do the exact opposite. You find the absolute highest feats possible for characters and try to scale them to that, which is no better. You unironically tried to argue for High 7-C+ Mark 1 Iron Man. You tried arguing that Tonys non-combat armors are scalable to his combat-based armors and scale the super soldiers to them. You love taking the absolute high-ends for every MCU character you see and try to make a CRT about it only for it to get shut down because the arguements are beyond flawed. For your next CRT, did you know that the Reality Stone has confirmed High 3-A level destruction & that pre-awakening Thor can tank attacks from it? The same guy who needed Tonys help to weaken a citys structure to destroy it is actually High 3-A, no cap. Make the CRT, you got this.

If you can't use the characters lowest showings because those are outliers and you would have to downgrade everybody, you also can't use their absolute peak showings and upscale everybody. If we did that, we would have Drax at Multiversal as he could throw his dagger hard enough to pierce through Dr Stranges shields, which could withstand attacks from Dormommu. Hell, now that I think about it, Thanos broke through one pretty easily, and we can get Spider-Man to Thanos level via scaling off of Iron Man. So you're actually wrong, we should have Multiversal Spider-Man. Tier 2 Iron Spider anyone?

Also I wasn't actually saying that we should do that, I don't think we should nerf the characters to 9-B or anything. I was doing it to show you how dumb your logic is. Outliers are a thing, and feats like Spider-Man catching Cull Obsidians hammer would just be an extremley high showing that isn't consistant. Just like how 99% of the MCU has low showings, 99% of the MCU has high showings. You can't be against one but all for the other.
darkphantom9805 said:
nobody said he was thanos level let’s be real you didn’t read the conversation at all
Click to expand...
You are saying he is scalable to Iron Man, who is Thanos level. You are aware of that right? You're also saying that he should scale to other characters that are the same tier as Thanos, such as Cull Obsidian.
darkphantom9805 said:
singling out anti feats for characters but don’t do it to other characters is a bad thing
Click to expand...
Yet you look at all of the highball feats possible for Spider-Man but are against using high-end stuff for the Guardians of the Galaxy. I'd make a joke about how ironic this is but I already did earlier. Plus, there's more anti-feats proving he's wall-small building level then there are feats proving he's Large Country level, so who's really singling out his showings?
darkphantom9805 said:
iron spider is flat out stated to scale using common sense it scales tony specifically gave armor to people here cares about like pepper rescue armor which scales tony cares for Peter On a Father son relationship level he built the iron spider to protect him from dangerous threats iron spider was implied to have vibranaum in it meaning unless you can provide and official statement of it not scaling everything you say is head canon

Like for you to try this hard and lowball spidey go do it to the mountain level guardians of the galaxy who in their right mind thinks rocket raccoon base being mountain level is consistent?
Click to expand...
The rescue armor was made well after the Iron Spider was. Heck, when the Iron Spider was made, the nanotech armors didn't exist, so saying that they're as powerful as his nanoarmors is pure headcannon. Maybe you can argue for his suit being Low 7-C? That's honestly the highest I can see you arguing for and even then that's just an assumption. How do we know it doesn't scale to his Mark 2-4 armors? Or his non-combat armors? Also when was it ever implied to have vibranium? The comics armor has vibranium in it, but the MCU one doesn't. If you Ctrl + F the wiki page on Iron Spider, there's not a single mention of it anywhere.

If you have statements of it being made out of vibranium, then that's something, but you don't. In the following sentance you proceed to ask me for official statements, which is hilarious. Official statements on what? What parts do you want me to supply proof for? I'd be down to do it. Though most of the things I claimed don't need statements, as you can watch the movies yourself and see them.

I also don't care enough about the GOTG characters to try and nerf them. I don't agree with 7-A Rocket & Peter Quill, but I also don't care enough to actually do anything. I care about Spider-Man a lot though, and I want his scaling to be accurate. I would fight just this hard if someone was trying to lowball him and make him Wall level. Or even if someone tried to bump him up to a less obsurd but still inaccurate tier like 7-B or something.

Also arguing for Tier 6 Iron Spider but saying that the GOTG aren't even 7-A is very funny as Quill 1v2ed Tony & Iron Spider and won, and even harmed Iron Spider with his weapons and kicks. By using your own logic, tier 6 Peter Quill has been confirmed.
 
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I think the other issues with scaling the Iron Spider to the Mark 50 is that stuff like Star-Lord's weapons being treated as a threat to it and the suit being damaged by an indirect hit from the Sanctuary II would suggest that a bunch of 7-A characters would also get bumped up to High 6-B+.
 
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